Dead Malls of Canada

[MolsonExport]

Haunting photos, Doady, of the destruction of the Bayside Mall. I ventured inside once about 6 years ago and it sucked my soul right off my bones.

Royal Centre was somewhat more vibrant in the mid 90s when I lived in Vancouver...despite the fact that New West had only just started with their condo tower boom.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

were you here when royal centre was Woodwards place? it was anchored by a three level woodwards, had woodwards food floor where safeway was and the mall was two levels of stores, it was quite a nice mall until woodwards closed up.

That was long before I lived here. That particular Safeway actually became Save-on-Foods several years ago.

It seems to be a popular seniors' mall, not on the same level as Cherryhill in London but most of the food court customers are seniors whenever I've been in there.

New West has surprisingly not developed much of a vibrant shopping area despite the rapidly increasing population in recent years, and Columbia Street downtown has not been doing that well, even before the pandemic. But both Metrotown and Central City are easily accessed by SkyTrain, so those probably get sizable business from New West residents.

[WhipperSnapper]

I wonder if Columbia Street being like a terrace carved into a mountain has had any impact towards achieving greater commercial success.

[ssiguy]

The thing that really pisses me off about all these dead malls is that they are such a waste of precious space.

Everywhere you go governments are putting up new schools, college/university campuses, and community centres spending a small fortune in the process while these huge developments lay empty. With a critical shortage of daycares, seniors and/or low income housing, hospital rooms, and other vital services, it is nothing but scandalous that these empty places aren't being put to better use.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The thing that really pisses me off about all these dead malls is that they are such a waste of precious space.

Everywhere you go governments are putting up new schools, college/university campuses, and community centres spending a small fortune in the process while these huge developments lay empty. With a critical shortage of daycares, seniors and/or low income housing, hospital rooms, and other vital services, it is nothing but scandalous that these empty places aren't being put to better use.

Westmount Mall in London is a tremendous waste of space, particularly the parking lot. There is so much potential for that land.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Westmount Mall in London is a tremendous waste of space, particularly the parking lot. There is so much potential for that land.

And yet it is the Masonville Mall parking lot that will be almost completely redeveloped over the next few years.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The thing that really pisses me off about all these dead malls is that they are such a waste of precious space.

Everywhere you go governments are putting up new schools, college/university campuses, and community centres spending a small fortune in the process while these huge developments lay empty. With a critical shortage of daycares, seniors and/or low income housing, hospital rooms, and other vital services, it is nothing but scandalous that these empty places aren't being put to better use.

I can't see acquiring these privately held properties and converting them to most of those uses being cheaper than building a sprawling campus on a government owned greenfield. Maintenance is the first thing deferred when rental revenues stagnant or drop. I dead mall will need major repairs to the building envelope which is the only thing that could be reused.

Every dying or dead mall in Toronto has a massive redevelopment plan. Same for Vancouver and probably every dead mall in a growing metro area. I don't know what will become of the demolished Sault Ste Marie's mall ( or was it Sarnia?) I doubt there is the same over capacity needs to build new schools and such at least until they find a solution to attract new people.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

That was long before I lived here. That particular Safeway actually became Save-on-Foods several years ago.

It seems to be a popular seniors' mall, not on the same level as Cherryhill in London but most of the food court customers are seniors whenever I've been in there.

New West has surprisingly not developed much of a vibrant shopping area despite the rapidly increasing population in recent years, and Columbia Street downtown has not been doing that well, even before the pandemic. But both Metrotown and Central City are easily accessed by SkyTrain, so those probably get sizable business from New West residents.

I went a few times while it was still there, it was a pretty nice mall, typical stores on the two levels, all big mall/national brands, then when it shutdown and changed to Zellers it died down so they closed the upper level and changed the stores to office space as it is today.

for curiosity, this is the old Woodwards in New West that was replaced by Woodward's place now called royal City Centre. This is the corner of 6th and 6th. The store occupied that corner, the rest of the lot appears to have just been a parking lot from pics I saw.


source

I'm surprised that Columbia Street can't make a go of it. in the '90s the quay was much more vibrant and had a lot of interesting stores and was more like Granville Island market on the bottom level with a big open area of market stalls. Columbia has great Skytrain access and could become a "Robson" street for the burbs, but it's pretty sad these days. I miss when Front Street was full of antique and vintage shops, was a popular street to browse on the weekend back in the 90s. Losing the Army & Navy really was a nail in the coffin. THe old store itself really needs to be replaced now. Something like a Simons would be really nice in that spot and anchor the street for shopping.

[esquire]

Forget the Bari shopping mall crisis. We are staring down the barrel of the Toronto PATH crisis.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...nce-permanent/

Toronto’s PATH system faces crisis as companies announce permanent hybrid work arrangements

There are more staff than shoppers in many parts of the mall that lies under Toronto’s financial district, more people cleaning the corridors than walking along them.

While some Bay Street companies have started allowing small numbers of employees to return to their office buildings, workers are going in sporadically, if at all. As the pandemic drags on, the question of when – or whether – the area will regain its pre-COVID hubbub is casting a darkening pall over the more than 30-kilometre-long network of retail tunnels beneath the city centre.

Downtowns around the world are agonizing over how to preserve their appeal as COVID-19 recedes. The sprawling underground mall in downtown Toronto – dubbed the PATH – is a microcosm of that concern, a zone so tied to the economic fortunes of the buildings above it that it risks becoming a place without a compelling reason to exist.

I know the downtown shopping centres in Winnipeg are not faring well either, and I would imagine this must be a fairly common situation across Canada.

[ssiguy]

I hate PATH. It sucks the life out of the downtown streets and you feel like a rat in maze never seeing the light of day.

I don't like underground cities in general but at least Montreal's system is somewhat esthetically pleasing. If I had to develope such a system I would go with Calgary's Plus15/30 which at least allows you to see the streets and sunshine and is easier to orient yourself due to this.

It's not that I disagree with the idea of connecting buildings together per se but rather what things like PATH have morphed into............dark, unpleasant, utilitarian downtown malls.

[canucklehead2]

To each their own but regardless of system all weather connections will always be needed. This is Canada after all not California. Does it reduce street traffic? Of course but so does -40c with a windchill. Both Edmonton and Calgary are lucky to have such networks believe me.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by esquire

Forget the Bari shopping mall crisis. We are staring down the barrel of the Toronto PATH crisis.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...nce-permanent/

Toronto’s PATH system faces crisis as companies announce permanent hybrid work arrangements



I know the downtown shopping centres in Winnipeg are not faring well either, and I would imagine this must be a fairly common situation across Canada.

The Bari shopping mall crisis will top any crisis such as the PATH crisis. The Bari shopping mall crisis has world wide implications. The issues in Bari have spread their tentacles into the retail spending habits of such other higher order centres such as the Milton Power Centre and the often forgotten Agincourt Mall.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I hate PATH. It sucks the life out of the downtown streets and you feel like a rat in maze never seeing the light of day.

I don't like underground cities in general but at least Montreal's system is somewhat esthetically pleasing. If I had to develope such a system I would go with Calgary's Plus15/30 which at least allows you to see the streets and sunshine and is easier to orient yourself due to this.

It's not that I disagree with the idea of connecting buildings together per se but rather what things like PATH have morphed into............dark, unpleasant, utilitarian downtown malls.

No one really likes the downtown walkway networks... they are at most simply tolerated as a way to escape the worst weather. But it appears that they are about to become more depressing as retail suddenly withers up in them as they remain empty for going on two years. Not a huge deal one way or the other for most people, but I do feel for the mom and pop operators who have been clobbered by this.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

No one really likes the downtown walkway networks... they are at most simply tolerated as a way to escape the worst weather. But it appears that they are about to become more depressing as retail suddenly withers up in them as they remain empty for going on two years. Not a huge deal one way or the other for most people, but I do feel for the mom and pop operators who have been clobbered by this.

I don't really think there are all that many left, at least on PATH. It's mostly chain stores and food courts serving Bay Street-esque clientele. I don't think i'll lose much sleep over an overpriced juice bar or a Marshall's closing.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I don't like underground cities in general but at least Montreal's system is somewhat esthetically pleasing.

I don't really see much of an aesthetic difference between the two. They're both underground pathways linking office buildings and food courts.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I don't really think there are all that many left, at least on PATH. It's mostly chain stores and food courts serving Bay Street-esque clientele. I don't think i'll lose much sleep over an overpriced juice bar or a Marshall's closing.

Well yeah, you won't because you aren't the one taking it on the chin

A lot of the food court joints are owned by mom and pop franchisees, this isn't some case where it's always a faceless corporation taking the hit.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I went a few times while it was still there, it was a pretty nice mall, typical stores on the two levels, all big mall/national brands, then when it shutdown and changed to Zellers it died down so they closed the upper level and changed the stores to office space as it is today.

for curiosity, this is the old Woodwards in New West that was replaced by Woodward's place now called royal City Centre. This is the corner of 6th and 6th. The store occupied that corner, the rest of the lot appears to have just been a parking lot from pics I saw.


source

I'm surprised that Columbia Street can't make a go of it. in the '90s the quay was much more vibrant and had a lot of interesting stores and was more like Granville Island market on the bottom level with a big open area of market stalls. Columbia has great Skytrain access and could become a "Robson" street for the burbs, but it's pretty sad these days. I miss when Front Street was full of antique and vintage shops, was a popular street to browse on the weekend back in the 90s. Losing the Army & Navy really was a nail in the coffin. THe old store itself really needs to be replaced now. Something like a Simons would be really nice in that spot and anchor the street for shopping.

If I'm not mistaken that Zellers closed several years before the Target deal. It was already gone by 2009, based on what I can see on Street View.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

The Bari shopping mall crisis will top any crisis such as the PATH crisis. The Bari shopping mall crisis has world wide implications. The issues in Bari have spread their tentacles into the retail spending habits of such other higher order centres such as the Milton Power Centre and the often forgotten Agincourt Mall.

Indeed. everywhere you look, there are massive implications from the Bari shopping mall crisis. for a look at what went wrong, click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoQ4ZuiSh8A

[ssiguy]

What the hell is "Bari"?

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Indeed. everywhere you look, there are massive implications from the Bari shopping mall crisis. for a look at what went wrong, click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoQ4ZuiSh8A

Thicke-rolled.

I so want an Alan Thicke Adidas jacket.

[O-tacular]

Calgary's Northhill Mall is somehow still open and I'm not sure what currently resides inside the former Sears.

https://northhillcentre.com/building-gallery/

Seems to fit several of the criteria including primarily seniors clientele, anchored by Safeway, Winners, Dollarama and Liquor Depot.