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  #2201  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2021, 5:37 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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So we now have 3 basketball leagues + the NBA? I was looking for the NBL and CEBL to merge, not the addition of yet another league. And Truro, Nova Scotia? I know basketball is popular Down East but that's an awfully small city. In July 2020, there were only 47,031 in the whole Census Agglomeration. Can't they just drive to St.FX or Acadia and watch a game there? I just noticed that the Halifax Hurricanes withdrew from the NBL. Does this mean they're headed to the CEBL or did they just shut down?


NBL
CEBL
ECBL
NBA


https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...020003-eng.htm
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  #2202  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2021, 6:10 PM
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In case anybody hasn't seen the CEBL and is curious, there are games archived at the CBC here
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  #2203  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2021, 12:41 PM
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Raptors season opener is on Wednesday on the 20th...against the Wizards at Scotiabank Arena. It would be their first game there in almost 2 years. But Raptors ain't makin no damn playoffs anyway tho. They at best will be a play in tournament team
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  #2204  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2021, 8:18 PM
jd3189 jd3189 is offline
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Was thinking about this the other day. Has Montreal ever had an NBA team and why don't they have one? I know Vancouver used to have one but they moved to Memphis TN ( Grizzlies), but thinking that the second largest city in Canada doesn't have one also is interesting, considering basketball's crucial history in Canada.
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  #2205  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2021, 9:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
So we now have 3 basketball leagues + the NBA? I was looking for the NBL and CEBL to merge, not the addition of yet another league. And Truro, Nova Scotia? I know basketball is popular Down East but that's an awfully small city. In July 2020, there were only 47,031 in the whole Census Agglomeration. Can't they just drive to St.FX or Acadia and watch a game there? I just noticed that the Halifax Hurricanes withdrew from the NBL. Does this mean they're headed to the CEBL or did they just shut down?


NBL
CEBL
ECBL
NBA


https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...020003-eng.htm
Moncton is also going to leave the NBL. Both teams are considering joining another league. If one of those leagues fail in the short term, my guess is it will be the NBL.
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  #2206  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2021, 6:20 AM
Al Ski Al Ski is offline
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
Was thinking about this the other day. Has Montreal ever had an NBA team and why don't they have one? I know Vancouver used to have one but they moved to Memphis TN ( Grizzlies), but thinking that the second largest city in Canada doesn't have one also is interesting, considering basketball's crucial history in Canada.
Basketball doesn't gain much traction here. It's seen as just another overhyped American sport (NBA) that people don't identify with.

And absolutely nobody sees any historical context, they see that as what that is - manufactured.

That said, there are many basketball fans here and the Raptors run was well supported amongst said fans.

But I don't think an NBA franchise would garner enough interest to be successful here.

Definitely not if any public money whatsoever were to be squandered on billionaire team owners. That's a total non-starter.

That's the sure way to end it. That's simply not going to happen.

That's why the majority aren't buying into Bronfman's Expos shenanigans.
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  #2207  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2021, 3:53 PM
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22 Canadians have made it on to NBA season-opening rosters that were finalized Monday (including players on two-way contracts). That is an all-time high, beating the previous high of 20 that was set in 2019-20 and 2020-21.



https://twitter.com/BrianSwane/statu...44103405330435
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  #2208  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2021, 6:52 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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Originally Posted by le calmar View Post
Moncton is also going to leave the NBL. Both teams are considering joining another league. If one of those leagues fail in the short term, my guess is it will be the NBL.
It's probably for the best. The CEBL is the newer league but already more visible than the NBL.
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  #2209  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2021, 7:03 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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Originally Posted by Al Ski View Post
Basketball doesn't gain much traction here. It's seen as just another overhyped American sport (NBA) that people don't identify with.

And absolutely nobody sees any historical context, they see that as what that is - manufactured.
Basketball has lots of interest and grass roots participation in Montreal. All 6 of the NBA pre-seasons games at the Bell Centre sell outs. This is a city producing lots of basketball talent too. But like most things, money will dictate whether Montreal lands a NBA team. Montreal certainly has more market heft than practically any other non NBA city in north America so it will boil down to putting together the right ownership group.

And if your contention that 'absolutely nobody sees any historical context' is accurate that speaks more to ignorance than anything else. Naismith was McGill's very first Director of Athletics and went on to invent basketball the following year. Basketball's roots stretch back further in northeastern North America than anywhere else on the planet. That said, Montrealers probably aren't aware of the historical importance their city played in the development of football either.

Basketball definitely has historical context in Montreal. Basketball has existed practically from the beginning and before places like California, Serbia, Australia. What I think you're trying to say is that the sport didn't gain widespread interest in Montreal till very recently.
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World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams

Last edited by isaidso; Oct 21, 2021 at 7:18 PM.
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  #2210  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2021, 7:10 PM
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Basketball has grown by leaps and bounds in Montreal and Quebec but it's still not to the point where it is a major sport that a lot people follow and talk about.

Moreso than they used to? Definitely.

But still not major.

The moral of the story is that what works in the US doesn't automatically map onto Canada (and especially not in Montreal and Quebec) simply based on population figures. I.e. that Montreal as a metro of 4 million + people would automatically support an NBA team like a US city of similar size would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
All 6 of the NBA pre-seasons games at the Bell Centre sell outs.
A handful of exhibition games aren't necessarily indicative of how much support a team would have week in week out and through thick and thin.

Either way, in fact.

For example I don't think the flop that the Buffalo Bills series in Toronto was is necessarily indicative of how an NFL club would fare in that city.

A real Toronto NFL team would do fine I am sure.

OTOH I think that an NBA team in Montreal would probably fare like the Expos did: Quite popular as a fad in the early going but once the shine is off their success would be far too dependent on whether they win, and even on whether they win with flash.

Montreal sports fans are notoriously fickle and generally prefer one-off big time events than long-term devoted fandom.

The Habs being the one exception to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Basketball has lots of interest and grass roots participation in Montreal. All 6 of the NBA pre-seasons games at the Bell Centre sell outs. This is a city producing lots of basketball talent too. But like most things, money will dictate whether Montreal lands a NBA team. Montreal certainly has more market heft than practically any other non NBA city in north America so it will boil down to putting together the right ownership group.

And if your contention that 'absolutely nobody sees any historical context' is accurate that speaks more to ignorance than anything else. Naismith was McGill's very first Director of Athletics and went on to invent basketball the following year. Basketball's roots stretch back further in northeastern North America than anywhere else on the planet. That said, Montrealers probably aren't aware of the historical importance their city played in the development of football either.

Basketball definitely has historical context in Montreal. Basketball has existed practically from the beginning and before places like California, Serbia, Australia. What I think you're trying to say is that the sport didn't gain widespread interest in Montreal till very recently.
I don't think that this somewhat tenuous historic reference would make much difference. It certainly didn't help baseball which has a much longer and illustrious past in the city including legend Jackie Robinson breaking the colour barrier with the Montreal Royals.
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Last edited by JHikka; Oct 21, 2021 at 7:55 PM. Reason: tripleeee
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  #2211  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2021, 9:22 PM
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I'm not sure the NFL would be fine in Toronto otherwise, there probably would have been one here already. The Buffalo Bills series wasn't the first test of American styles of football. Rogers paid ten million for the Phantoms playing a sport so ridiculous only the most avid football fan would enjoy. They televised quite a few games. Ah, remember those Toronto Phantoms. Who?

Basketball is an affordable game while hockey becomes less and less every passing moment. That's its advantage.

History? Top level spectator sports live in the moment. I couldn't care less that the Leafs have won 11 Stanley Cups. As a player, there is nothing to be gained knowing where the game of basketball was invented. It's patriotism and not the kind that makes a difference
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  #2212  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2021, 9:41 PM
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I'm not sure the NFL would be fine in Toronto otherwise, there probably would have been one here already.
The main barrier to the NFL in Toronto is the need for a very large football stadium for which there would be little other use in Toronto. In many NFL cities the lavish stadiums were built with public dollars due to a) Americans being more open to that stuff and b) a few more annual opportunities to use the stadium like college football, outdoor shows, and other events.

But if ever Toronto got the Olympics and built a huge stadium, that could seal the deal.

There are so many people keen on seeing the NFL in Canada that I guarantee you that you'd get fans from all across Ontario and even Quebec and maybe even people from the Maritimes who'd make an annual weekend for a game.

It's only 8 or 9 dates a year as well.
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  #2213  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2021, 10:53 PM
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I think there's only a handful of colleges that use an NFL stadium for their regular season games. The reality is America is football crazy enough to have an NFL stadium and similarly-sized on campus college stadium in a lot of cases.
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  #2214  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2021, 1:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
22 Canadians have made it on to NBA season-opening rosters that were finalized Monday (including players on two-way contracts). That is an all-time high, beating the previous high of 20 that was set in 2019-20 and 2020-21.



https://twitter.com/BrianSwane/statu...44103405330435
That's awesome.
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  #2215  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2021, 3:03 AM
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Some NFL stadiums do host one or two college games a year, which can be quite lucrative in gate receipts. Bowl games of course, but also the conference championship game and neutral venue games.

Soldier Field in Chicago, Jerry World in Dallas, Mercedes Benz in ATL pretty much every year have a kickoff classic or something like that for neutral site games. Super Dome in NOLA used to get those and Met Life in NY/NJ sometimes does it.
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  #2216  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2021, 9:09 AM
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Some NFL stadiums do host one or two college games a year, which can be quite lucrative in gate receipts. Bowl games of course, but also the conference championship game and neutral venue games.

Soldier Field in Chicago, Jerry World in Dallas, Mercedes Benz in ATL pretty much every year have a kickoff classic or something like that for neutral site games. Super Dome in NOLA used to get those and Met Life in NY/NJ sometimes does it.
This is what I had in mind. Not necessarily NCAA teams using them as home stadiums.
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  #2217  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2021, 2:10 PM
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An NFL stadium is definitely a barrier. It's a lot less of a barrier if Toronto is a football obsessed market. The Skydome with minor revisions was considered adequate by the NFL in the 1990s. The billion dollar expansion or relocation fee was the stumbling block. The CFL wanted compensation too. It wasn't significant by comparison.

A new team would be the talk of the town. In my experience, the NFL is more popular in Toronto for all things around the game instead of the on field play. Those people would buy tickets to show off. That would wane as the team settles in and follows in the footprints of other mediocre Toronto teams.
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  #2218  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2021, 2:58 PM
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The Skydome with minor revisions was considered adequate by the NFL in the 1990s.
The Skydome was basically a NFL calibre stadium when it was built, the only thing it was really missing was the 10 or 12 thousand or so nosebleed seats that would have been there if there was another level over and above the 500s. It wouldn't have been an insurmountable problem in 1989.

These days though, not a chance. The best it could do is as a temporary venue for a couple years while something permanent is built. Although mind you, BMO could fill that role too. The Chargers played in a venue similar in scale to BMO for three seasons while SoFi was built.
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  #2219  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2021, 3:30 PM
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Nascar is another one. They're definitely die hard fans in the city. Are there enough to justify building a track? The time was also in the 1990s as land values and construction costs were depressed. Now, the cash strapped one in Fort Erie is on the verge. Personally, it's too far out of the sphere.
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  #2220  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2021, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
22 Canadians have made it on to NBA season-opening rosters that were finalized Monday (including players on two-way contracts). That is an all-time high, beating the previous high of 20 that was set in 2019-20 and 2020-21.
Good to see Kevin Pangos there, much deserved. I followed him when he was starring at Gonzaga and Spain and when he played for the Nats. I didn't remember he was undrafted, that's ridiculous.

Canada’s Kevin Pangos finally arrives in the NBA after circuitous six-year route
Lori Ewing The Canadian Press October 20, 2021
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