Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa
Then that raises the question of why they are so fixated on the Havelock Sub, which basically a shortline with class 1 track that has never seen significant passenger or freight traffic and likely needs massive work.
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I do agree that it needs a significant amount of work. That won't be cheap, but it would be cheaper than adding track through all the urban centres along the Lakeshore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa
If CP is willing to part with mainline ROW in Toronto and Eastern Ontario (maybe Montreal) then to me adding track for Via use in the ROW of Belleville Sub should at least be looked at.
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I think you confused what what I meant. I was strictly talking about the track on the Island of Montreal (the
Vaudreuil Sub) and I didn't intend to imply that they would apply for discontinuance. It is double tracked and has sufficient capacity to meet all of VIA, EXO and CP's needs.
There is also the possibility that CP could reroute their main line to bypass the island of Montreal and run along the south shore. There is
some evidence that they could actually make money doing so by selling the valuable land used by their St-Luc rail yard. I am not saying that this will happen, but it could.
The Bellville Subdivision is single track (and always has been) so sharing it wouldn't be feasible, and having CP move to CN's Kingston Sub would be a hard sell. It could be double tracked, but as I said, that would be very expensive as it goes through urban centres, so grade separation would become much more important and few if any of the existing bridges were designed for double track. Then there is the risk that CP could do what CN did and take VIA's money to expand the track and then fill it up with freight trains (especially if they replaced the double track along the Winchester Sub).
The other issue is what to do about Kingston. It is true that the HFR route doesn't serve it either, but since it doesn't serve any of the rest of the Lakeshore, frequent regional service can be justified. If HFR serviced the Lakeshore, the justification for frequent regional service to Kingston would be diminished. You also end up with HFR having competing objectives of providing reasonably fast intercity service and slow reginal service that exists today and end up with it doing neither well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa
I can't find a list of the mileage markers for Havelock, but it certainly seems like a more direct route between central Toronto and Smith Falls (339km on Belleville sub, about 400 to Ottawa). The route also goes through more population centres.
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I found an
old CPR schedule on the UBC Library Website. Back then the two subdivisions were each divided into 2 smaller subdivisions. The distances (in miles as I didn't bother converting to km) are as follows:
Havelock Sub (Glen Tay to Havelock) 93.7
Peterboro Sub (Havelock to Agincourt) 88.0
181.7
Belleville Sub (Glen Tay to Trenton) 87.3
Oshawa Sub (Trenton to Agincourt) 96.3
183.6
The latter is very similar to the 184 miles
OKthePK reports for the Belleville Sub (Glen Tay to Jct Havelock Sub). As a result, Havelock Sub is actually a couple miles shorter than the Belleville Sub (though admittedly inconsequential in the scheme of things). More significant would be the slower speeds required for going through all those population centres along the Belleville Sub.