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Old Posted Apr 8, 2016, 10:12 PM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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Brisavoine and Minato ku explore the French Molenbeek

My visit of some notheastern suburbs of Paris with Brisavoine
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine
Last Sunday, Minato Ku and I decided to take advantage of the first day with temperatures above 60F (16C) since last November (!) to explore a suburb of Paris that has been called the French 'Molenbeek', in reference to that district of Brussels from where many of the recent Islamist terrorists originated.

In recent weeks, several French suburbs have been called little 'Molenbeek' in the French media, but one in particular was branded as the French Molenbeek: Sevran, in the north-eastern suburbs of Paris. Last week the Green-dissident mayor of Sevran had to answer tons of interviews after his commune was denounced as the best (or worst?) example of a Molenbeek in France. In a nutshell, the mayor, Stéphane Gatignon, who went on a hunger strike in front of the French National Assembly a few years ago to protest against the lack of funding of his commune, is doing what he can with the little money he has to improve the situation in his commune, but he says he's faced with forces (social forces) too strong for his limited budget and power, and he witnesses with helplessness the rise of 'communitarianism' in his commune year after year (people living more and more within their own ethnic communities, instead of integrating in the mainstream French society).

The problem here is not the mayor really, who is far from being one of the worst mayors in the Paris suburbs. The problem is the insanely small size of the French communes (Sevran covers only 7.3 km²/2.7 sq miles, and contains 49,465 residents), which means when faced with impoverished populations, the municipalities don't have enough tax base to properly manage the area. Sevran should be merged with neighboring communes to create a large commune with a large tax base. The communes just north of Sevran contain CDG Airport and the large industrial and warehousing area to the south of CDG, with lots of companies located there and lots of tax revenues, from which Sevran currently cannot benefit. If they were all merged together with Sevran, that would create a commune with enough revenues to properly regenerate the area, fund the right urban policies, etc. The mayor of a small commune like Sevran, without much tax base, will never be able to fight against the great forces of social deprivation, community ghettoization, withdrawal into one's ethnic or religious community, which all make drug traffics and Islamism prosper.

Unfortunately, the French elites have ALWAYS opposed commune mergers, due to conservatism plus desire to preserve their jobs (five communes merged to form one means 4 offices of mayor gone, and of course that means 4 mayors totally opposing the merger). As for the top French elites in Paris, they don't care, or don't realize the seriousness of things, even after the deadly attacks in central Paris last year (I think it would take attacks of a far greater magnitude to really make the central Parisian elites budge).

So we wanted to explore what's supposed to be one of the worst suburbs of Paris, and also the very working-class and immigrant suburbs around. If there's anywhere in Europe that's going to come close the infamous notion of "Eurabia", surely it has to be there, in that particular section of the Parisian suburbs.

Spoiler, for those wetting their lips in anticipation of confirmation of their 'Eurabia' prejudice: sorry guys, but in this photo thread you'll see very little traces of "Eurabia". In fact, we saw only very little evidence of Eurabia during our urban treck throughout these suburbs. In more than 4 hours of walking, we barely saw 4 or 5 veiled women in total (with veils covering only the hair; no full veil). I'll say more about it at the end of the photo thread. In a nutshell, we saw more Tamil, Portuguese, and Black people than Arabic people. And we heard more French in the street than foreign tongues.
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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2016, 10:13 PM
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I begin with the pictures taken by Brisavoine, he focuses more on little details whereas I focus more on streetscapes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine
The trip starts in Sevran then. According to a detailed and very interesting survey made by the French demographer Michèle Tribalat, in Sevran the percentage of children younger than 18 who had at least one immigrant parent went from 30% in 1982 to 62% in 2005 to 66% in 2011. This includes of course the European immigrants (like the Portuguese). According to Ms Tribalat, the percentage for the whole population should be lower than 66%. Sevran is not the suburb of Paris with the largest proportion of children having at least one immigrant parent. In 2005 (no data for 2011) the one suburb with the highest percentage, according to her, was Clichy-sous-Bois (which we aren't visiting in this trip), with 76% (as opposed to 62% for Sevran). 16 other suburbs had higher percentages (of children with at least one immigrant parent) than Sevran.

After being addressed in the RER train by a middle-aged Black guy wearing sub-Saharan attire who told us some incomprehensible things about Egypt and China and how we, the West/Egypt, are all going to be crushed by China, or something (), we finally arrive in Sevran. By the time we arrived in Sevran, the people in the train were largely Black, although there were 4 Russian people in the their early 30s busy chatting with each other in the rows next to us. They looked like local residents (after Sevran there are only bedroom communities on the line, since we didn't use the RER line that serves CDG airport).

1. The town hall of Sevran. They have asked graffers to write "mairie" ("town hall") with graffiti. First time ever I see that in France!



2. The building housing the administrative services of the commune also has a graffiti representing Marianne (symbol of the French Republic):



3. View towards the old village of Sevran:



4. Derelict banlieue.



5. But they are renovating it:



6. And they have already installed the new city hall there (the old one with graffiti is being phased out I suppose).



7. The color of the sidewalk changes, we're already arriving at the border of the commune of Sevran (French communes are so small!) and entering another commune:



8. We're entering the commune of Aulnay-sous-Bois. It is twinned with towns in Morocco, Senegal, and Palestine, as well as a district of Rotterdam that is, I suppose, as full of immigrants as Aulnay-sous-Bois:



9. Gallic rooster on top of the church spire. Reassuring sight of 'eternal France' in the middle of what's supposedly "Eurabia".



10. This church is the parish church of the old village of Aulnay. The town center of Aulnay has now moved to the south of the rail line (we're not visiting it), and the old village nucleus, which is distant from today's town center, is called "Vieux Pays" ("Old Country"). This happens in several communes of those north-eastern suburbs of Paris. With the arrival of train lines in the 19th century, the town centers moved close to the train stations and away from the old village nuclei, which were renamed "Vieux Pays".



11. They are copying the tourist signs of central Paris!



12. Spring at last! Spring at last! :okay:



13. The first nice houses we see since the start of our trip in Sevran. My feeling is the nice houses tend to be inhabited by Portuguese immigrants (as opposed to the less nice houses inhabited by Maghreban, Black, Tamil, Eastern European immigrants). You can tell (I saw that with many of the nicer houses we walked by) because of the names on the mailboxes and because of the cars parked in front, on whose licenses plates they often have (illegally) replaced the logo of the Paris Region with the coat of arms of Portugal. Go Portugal!



14. With horse on top! (it's a weather vane)



15. When you see daffodil, you know it's Spring.



16. NYC is advertising itself even in those distant working-class suburbs!



17. Hotel for insects! This is the new environmentalist fashion in France now. I had seen them in central Paris, but I didn't know the local municipalities in those less-than-environmentally-friendly far-left communes of the banlieue (we're in the Communist 'Red Belt' here) also liked them!



18. They are renovating some of the infamous 'cités' (council estates/housing projects)!



(to be continued...)

Last edited by Minato Ku; Apr 8, 2016 at 10:26 PM.
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  #3  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2016, 10:15 PM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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My pictures

1. Sevran

DSC018856b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
2.

DSC018861b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
3.

DSC018863b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
4.

DSC018866b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
5.

DSC018871b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
6.

DSC018868b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
7.

DSC018872b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
8. Aulnay-sous-Bois

DSC018876b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
9.

DSC018881b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
10. The old village core of Aulnay-sous-Bois, the actual town center moved more to the south when the railway line was built in the 19th century.

DSC018886b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
11.

DSC018892b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
12.

DSC018894b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
13.

DSC018896b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
14. There is the stereotype that Paris suburbs (especially northern suburbs) would be mostly made of housing blocks when infact those are dominated by single familly houses.

DSC018900b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
15.

DSC018902b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
16.

DSC018905b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
17.

DSC018908b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
18.

DSC018910b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
19.

DSC018912b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
20.

DSC018917b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
21.

DSC018920b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
22.

DSC018923b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
23.

DSC018926b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
24. Le Blanc-Mesnil

DSC018929b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
25.

DSC018930b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
26.

DSC018933b by Minato ku, sur Flickr

To be continued

Last edited by Minato Ku; Apr 8, 2016 at 11:02 PM.
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  #4  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2016, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
14. There is the stereotype that Paris suburbs (especially northern suburbs) would be mostly made of housing blocks when infact those are dominated by single familly houses.
mm... which is not necessarily anything to boast about. In this case, I suspect it's rather been a reactionary factor of impoverishment nowadays. Even in the better off Yvelines suburbs, they're tearing down single family homes for apartment buildings in towns around Saint-Germain-en-Laye, foreseeing the effect of some light rail to connect the suburban towns over some 20 miles out there, to second the RER line A (and soon E). This is no mere speculation, it's just what experience taught to us all over some long long time.

Good job from you guys up north. You and I can think of some more grim areas, though.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2016, 1:23 AM
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Haha New York is really scraping for those French tourist dollars.

I have to say, French cities absolutely fascinate me, they're very captivating. I wonder if you would ever decide to showcase the city of Reims with your talents. Great photos!
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  #6  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2016, 3:52 AM
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I don't know, maybe the buildings or the sky color, I feel depressed imagining being in such place.
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Old Posted Apr 10, 2016, 12:23 PM
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Last edited by Le Charbonneur; Jul 8, 2018 at 9:12 AM.
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Old Posted Apr 10, 2016, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Le Charbonneur View Post
Minato and his legendary sense of direction......
Lost in the "best" part of town lol
Lol, I'll admit, I'm just the same. You know, it's like when you were a little kid and everything seemed larger than it actually is. Still the way it feels, even as a grown-up.
It takes a little time to find your way in there.

I see you removed your bad temper note about Issy, mm?
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Old Posted Apr 10, 2016, 12:39 PM
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Last edited by Le Charbonneur; Jul 8, 2018 at 9:12 AM.
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Old Posted Apr 10, 2016, 2:12 PM
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well that was interesting. these places we rarely think about or get to see. it looks pleasant and typical. the signage, the trees cut back, the jaywalking barriers, the forms, etc., all give it a good french sense of place over and above it being suburbia. those gray skies do work against it though, as much as they work in favor of central paris. best of all for this particular moment in time it is great to see signs of spring.
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Old Posted Apr 10, 2016, 4:18 PM
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Last edited by Le Charbonneur; Jul 8, 2018 at 9:11 AM.
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  #12  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2016, 5:45 PM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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What is exactly the "bad" part of Sevran? If you think of around Beaudottes, most have been renovated. Appart from the ugliness of the ugly housing blocks, you will not see anything shocking.
It is not like Plaine de France where there are still a lot of old industrial wasteland.

https://www.google.fr/maps/@48.94738...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

https://www.google.fr/maps/@48.94827...656!6m1!1e1?hl

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/932...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

If you randomly look Sevran on Google Street View, you will mostly see small houses because this is the majority of Sevran.
https://www.google.fr/maps/place/932...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

https://www.google.fr/maps/@48.93641...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

https://www.google.fr/maps/@48.93462...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/932...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

https://www.google.fr/maps/place/932...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

When I see some of those Google street View, I don't think that I showed or I went in the best part of Sevran.
Our point is to show Sevran and the surrounding municipalities how we have seen them. We did not try to go in the worst or best parts or avoid them, we just walked randomly from Sevran.

Last edited by Minato Ku; Apr 10, 2016 at 5:58 PM.
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Old Posted Apr 10, 2016, 7:11 PM
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Last edited by Le Charbonneur; Jul 8, 2018 at 9:11 AM.
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  #14  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2016, 8:27 PM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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Don't mislead people with what? The majority of Sevran is made of little houses. Just look on Google Map.
Note that Sevran is only the first seven pictures.
I don't see how my pictures would be more misleading than few pics of decaying housing blocks (you can see them in pic 3).

We did not say it is wealthy but it is not a nothing like South Bronx in the 1980s.
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Old Posted Apr 10, 2016, 10:27 PM
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Hey, you guys! I found the typical gentle little bourgeois street in Aulnay!

https://www.google.fr/maps/@48.92986...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Trees and old pierre meulière homes... Isn't it much of the basics around here after all?
That one deserves to be spared from redevelopment demo, I find.
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Old Posted Apr 11, 2016, 12:02 AM
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^ Those streets are so tiny! I love it.

Although it seems like hell to drive around there with a car, looks like mostly one-way streets.

Urgh, why can't U.S. suburbs be like this?
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Old Posted Apr 30, 2016, 12:41 PM
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We are continuing in Le Blanc Mesnil and we will finish our trip in Le Bourget

27. The plaza in front of Le Blanc Mesnil town hall acts as the town center

DSC018936b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
28.

DSC018941b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
29.

DSC018951b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
30.

DSC018965b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
31.

DSC018966b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
32.

DSC018969b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
33.

DSC018975b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
34.

DSC018970b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
35.

DSC018979b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
36. This area seems to have been urbanized in the 1930s.

DSC018981b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
37.

DSC018987b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
38. A1 Freeway linking Central Paris to Lille in Northern France.
The highway is well soundproofed here, you don't hear it.

DSC018994b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
39.

DSC019017b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
40. Le Bourget,

DSC019015b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
41. We are along the Bourget airport, the street is full of restaurants

DSC019022b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
42. Le Bourget airport. It used to be the main airport of Paris before Orly airport became of the main after WW2 and then CDG.
The airport is still in use the business jet operations but no long for main passenger flight since the end of the 1970's.
The airport now also serves as an air and space museum and an exihibition center. This is where Paris air show takes place.

DSC019009b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
43.

DSC019029b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
44.

DSC019033b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
45. Toward le Bourget center

DSC019039b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
46.

DSC019071b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
47.

DSC019089b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
48.

DSC019102b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
49. Le Bourget RER station.
In the next decade with several subway lines planned, Le Bourget will become a big transportation hub.
Currently a fast light rail is under construction, allowing fast suburbs to suburbs transfer.

DSC019110b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
50.

DSC019108b by Minato ku, sur Flickr
51.

DSC019118b by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Last edited by Minato Ku; Apr 30, 2016 at 12:54 PM.
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  #18  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2016, 9:58 PM
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Great tour!
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