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View Poll Results: Do you think an LA-SD megalopolis or mega region is possible?
Yes 9 15.00%
No 30 50.00%
Already happening 21 35.00%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2020, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
DC and Baltimore appear to be connected on Google maps, when you drive along 95 or the 295 and US-1, there is very little undeveloped land in between the two, and currently growing, mainly from the DC metro north, the cities themselves are only 45 miles apart, but on paper, the census says there separate metros.
Another example is Chicago-Milwaukee, on Google maps, it is only 2 miles of what appears to be undeveloped land from Milwaukee's southers suburban reach and Chicago's northern suburban reach, but that census seperates them
Washington and Baltimore downtowns are as distant as Dallas and Fort Worth. As Baltimore is as an old and big metro area for ages, people struggle to see it as part of other bigger city metropolitan area.

However, Washington-Baltimore is clearly a single metropolitan area and as it grows fast, it's only becoming more intertwined.
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2020, 4:21 PM
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Los Angeles and San Diego are distinct metros. This is a foolish question. Just because some suburban housing tracts may eventually border each other doesn't mean there is a merger of the metros
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2020, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Los Angeles and San Diego are distinct metros. This is a foolish question. Just because some suburban housing tracts may eventually border each other doesn't mean there is a merger of the metros
I don't think that was the question though. The entire Northeastern seaboard is often called a 'megalopolis' (BosWas) even though it consists of several distinct metros. LA and SD are probably close enough to be considered a megalopolis.
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2020, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I don't think that was the question though. The entire Northeastern seaboard is often called a 'megalopolis' (BosWas) even though it consists of several distinct metros. LA and SD are probably close enough to be considered a megalopolis.
I'm surprised it's even up for debate. Of course LA and SD are a megalopolis.
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2020, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I don't think that was the question though. The entire Northeastern seaboard is often called a 'megalopolis' (BosWas) even though it consists of several distinct metros. LA and SD are probably close enough to be considered a megalopolis.
Right, thank you.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2020, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
I don't think that was the question though. The entire Northeastern seaboard is often called a 'megalopolis' (BosWas) even though it consists of several distinct metros. LA and SD are probably close enough to be considered a megalopolis.
It would help if I payed attention! In that case, you are correct
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  #87  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2020, 9:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
I don't know why this is a pissing contest,
It's not a pissing contest. It's an observation.

Nonetheless, it's pretty clear that support for green issues is far more pervasive throughout the 9 county Bay Area, which, unlike SoCal, the entirety of which is blue, has been blue for decades, and whose ratification for sprawl-containing urban boundaries has existed for decades, in-line with this decades-long history of being blue. Can you say the same for the LA-SD region, a region that today, still includes many large stretches of republican jurisdictions?

As I've stated earlier, LA County alone would have trouble supporting a referendum on growth boundaries (a green issue), given its much of its periphery is moderate to conservative. There is no LA or SD version of Napa and Sonoma County - both rural AND liberal. Relatively speaking, LA's blue base is largely an urban, inner-city phenomenon with some Westside elitism sprinkled in (see "working class")

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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Regarding Tejon Ranch, according to Wikipedia, the Tejon Ranch Company is one of the largest private landowners in California. The company now owns over 270,000 acres in the southern San Joaquin Valley, Tehachapi Mountains, and Antelope Valley, the largest contiguous piece of private property in the state. Call it capitalism, but I can see why the Tejon Ranch Company wants to develop some of its property, because it wants more money. I guess the argument is they want to create a new town called Centennial (who came up with that name?) that would somehow be self-sustaining, in that people who live there could also work there. I don't buy it, personally. I guess the Tejon Ranch Company made some concessions by agreeing to some preservation of open space, blah blah blah, but it's in a fire zone and it's basically in the middle of nowhere. I personally think that more housing should be built in already-established population centers, but hey, Tejon Ranch, they have the money I guess. If you think that they can buy politicians, I don't doubt that either.
So basically, you are tacitly agreeing with (or at least re-stating) my observation that LA has no major grassroots movement of any consequence whose chief aim is to contain sprawl; the major basis of my comment above, and the major basis of my contention that green initiatives in SoCal exist in servitude to the convenience of their benefactors. My years of living in Santa Monica serve to bolster my feeling of this "fake green" phenomenon.
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  #88  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 12:46 AM
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I think the southwest will become an even larger manufacturing district thanks to the amount of solar energy hitting this region. With the move towards solar energy thanks to the advent of better battery technology I think Socal will see a huge boom. This is number of sunshine hour map of the usa.
I
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  #89  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 6:38 PM
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I think the southwest will become an even larger manufacturing district thanks to the amount of solar energy hitting this region. With the move towards solar energy thanks to the advent of better battery technology I think Socal will see a huge boom. This is number of sunshine hour map of the usa.
And the water will come from where?
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  #90  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
Washington and Baltimore downtowns are as distant as Dallas and Fort Worth. As Baltimore is as an old and big metro area for ages, people struggle to see it as part of other bigger city metropolitan area.

However, Washington-Baltimore is clearly a single metropolitan area and as it grows fast, it's only becoming more intertwined.
Perhaps it's best to look at it as a 'metropolitan region' with 2 distinct parts..... similar to the Keihanshin 'metropolitan region' (Kyoto-Osaka-Kobe) of Japan. It has a population of 19.3 million but has 5 distinct metros within it. As we're talking about Washington-Baltimore I looked up some figures. Washington-Baltimore-Arlington CSA had 9,814,928 people in 2019 which was an increase of 36,757 over the previous year. It could possibly get to 10 million by 2024. Maybe it should be seen as the #3 in the US as it surely passed Chicago-Naperville CSA (9,825,325) this year?


https://www.census.gov/data/tables/t...al-areas.html#
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Last edited by isaidso; Oct 2, 2020 at 7:00 PM.
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  #91  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 2:06 AM
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And the water will come from where?
Desalination? The largest body of water on the planet is right there, and that solar irradiation is the ready energy supply for the demands of desalination.

The biggest issue IIRC is returning the brine to the ocean in a manner that's safe for both the piping material and the ecology of the area you're returning the brine to.
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  #92  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 4:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
Desalination? The largest body of water on the planet is right there, and that solar irradiation is the ready energy supply for the demands of desalination.

The biggest issue IIRC is returning the brine to the ocean in a manner that's safe for both the piping material and the ecology of the area you're returning the brine to.
There are very good reasons why there aren't a plethora of de-salination plants around the world. Yes there is solar energy potential to run these plants but the cost to build these plants is high and, as you mentioned, brine is a BIG problem. The hope that dumping huge amounts of brine into the world's oceans will be safe is folly. The de-salination companies, of course, lie through their teeth and say it's fine. The truth is they don't know. And the idea that this polluted water will stay off the coasts of the places doing the polluting is ridiculous. Ocean water circulates throughout the world so it will pollute waters/damage eco-systems off Canada, Russia, Brazil, Japan ...... everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised to see a global ban on dumping brine in the coming decades.

Instead of polluting the world's oceans perhaps people should stop moving to these places.
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Last edited by isaidso; Oct 3, 2020 at 4:37 AM.
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  #93  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
Desalination? The largest body of water on the planet is right there, and that solar irradiation is the ready energy supply for the demands of desalination.

The biggest issue IIRC is returning the brine to the ocean in a manner that's safe for both the piping material and the ecology of the area you're returning the brine to.
You don't need desalination. Just water recycling, groundwater storage and rain capture. SoCal for instance is using magnitudes more water than it needs to and essentially dumps all of its rainwater into the Pacific. Or, the southwest transitions out of agriculture which tend to use most of a state's water compared to populations of people.

Last edited by ocman; Oct 3, 2020 at 3:37 PM.
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  #94  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 4:07 PM
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Mandatory xeriscaping would go a long way to conserve water too. Stop planting things like grass and palm trees that suck up water and provide little benefit in return and stick to native plants and trees. There are so many interesting and beautiful plants that can thrive in SoCal's climate that there's really no reason to have a European style grass lawn.
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  #95  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 4:22 PM
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People can live in the SW, but they can’t live in the SW like they live in anywhere else in the country.
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  #96  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 7:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ocman View Post
You don't need desalination. Just water recycling, groundwater storage and rain capture. SoCal for instance is using magnitudes more water than it needs to and essentially dumps all of its rainwater into the Pacific. Or, the southwest transitions out of agriculture which tend to use most of a state's water compared to populations of people.
I agree with some of what you said, but how can the west transition out of agriculture? California alone produces 2/3s of the nations fruits and vegetable crops. There is no better place in north America for agriculture.
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  #97  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 5:44 PM
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I don't actually see California as having a huge water problem. People like to make so much fuss about it. Yes California has droughts as does many parts of the US from time to time. People think Washington and Oregon are just lush and wet but many parts are in drought. I think Florida was in drought this year, you can google that.

California has the best statewide water infrastructure. The many dams and reservoirs to store water from snow runoff. The hundreds of miles of water transit aqueducts to agriculture areas and huge populations areas. There is desal plants being built. There is local infrastructure that collects rooftop water, capture river water, cleans grey water and uses it to water parks, golf courses or puts it back into the water system. On top of that there are many conservation efforts, like low flush toilets or low flow shower spouts, replacing grass with drought tolerant plants. Also the agriculture industry is fixing their infrastructure so water drips into the soil rather than spray so much that a lot evaporates.

There are a lot of technologies out there to capture water in other ways. A lot of California has coastal clouds and fog. There is fog catching or collecting machines that capture the moisture and stores water. For those in CA, you sometimes wake up to your car with so much water on it but it hasnt rain in weeks. Reminds me of moistures farms from Star Wars that Luke grew up on.

Anyway I often argue on sites that California can double its population of 40 million to 80 million by reducing its agriculture by 20%. 80% of drinking water is used by agriculture and 20% by residental/commercial/industry and millions of tourists etc. so much water is used to grow food that people in other states with trillions of gallons of water dont grow. It is odd Californians have to conserve so those in other states can eat food with California water. hmmm something is not right. If other states improve their food growing, then California will have enough water. It is not difficult. I lived in parts of Asia where it is freezing but parts of the countryside is covered in tarp and plastic covered greenhouses that are growing food year round in pots. You can grow a lot of stuff indoors like marijuana using UV light. I saw these vertical urban farms that use hydroponics and uv light to grow fast growing greens like lettuce. Every city can have these locally grown foods even if it is -50 degrees using technology.

OK getting off topic. But I think California can do a lot of things using technology that will make things locally sustainable. Fog capture, growing food indoors, solar panels and battery storage on every building.

Bringing back on topic. California can grow into each other. LA Metro, SD Metro, SanBern-Riverside Metro as one giant megalodon. wait that is a shark.

If there were car/rail tunnels from Murrieta to south Orange County, the Riverside county would explode in population as will North County SD along the I-15.
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  #98  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SLO View Post
I agree with some of what you said, but how can the west transition out of agriculture? California alone produces 2/3s of the nations fruits and vegetable crops. There is no better place in north America for agriculture.
Why does it need to? It’s not just the nation, CA almost monopolized the selling of certain crops to the whole world. If California exits or reduces agriculture, the country won't starve. Other states won’t have certain ingredients and food will be more expensive, but California would be better off. It’s not the state's responsibility to feed the rest of the country. It’s only a $50B state industry, so it’s also not a huge economic contributer. And it probably doesn’t make up for the burden it causes using up most of the water. What agriculture does is export California’s water to other states and countries in the form of fruits and vegetables.
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  #99  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
There are very good reasons why there aren't a plethora of de-salination plants around the world.
The main reason being that water is still cheap and plentiful. If at some point in the future it becomes scarce and expensive, then desalination will become economically viable, as is the case in the Middle East. It's not rocket science. I have a RO filter at home. It's a proven technology with known costs.

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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Instead of polluting the world's oceans perhaps people should stop moving to these places.
Polluting the world's oceans? lol. That's not how it works. There is no net increase in salinity of the oceans from desalination, obviously.
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