Atlantic Canada Regional Transportation Thread

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Architype

The NL government has finally released a time frame for completion (meaning paving) of the Trans Labrador Highway - 2019

That is unbelievable. I'm so glad this project is actually going to be completed! It'll be a massive boost for a Province (territory in Labrador's respect) where travel is tedious at best. Like MonctonRad, i'd be interested in driving the Trans-Labrador and Quebec 389 route once it is all completed.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If completed, I wonder what implications this project would have for the (mostly anglophone) lower north shore Quebec communities. If they have a closer physical connection to the rest of the province, their differences might not be so easily tolerated.......

I don't think it's a bigger deal than having a couple of hundred thousand anglophones living within a 20-km radius from downtown Montreal!

[Mattyyy]

I noticed on the weekend that the prep work is well under way for the twinning of highway 11 to Miramichi. Surveying seems to be completed about 60 to 70 km north at this point.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

I noticed on the weekend that the prep work is well under way for the twinning of highway 11 to Miramichi. Surveying seems to be completed about 60 to 70 km north at this point.

I was under the impression that plans for that twinning had been shelved.

Nevertheless, here's a link to PDF files outlining an upgraded Route 11 from Shediac to Richibucto:

http://www.gnb.ca/0113/projects/rte11/index-e.asp

As well as this information:

http://www.gnb.ca/0113/projects/rte1...0meeting-e.pdf

[Mattyyy]

It would seem that way as they have remained quiet about it, but the plans have never been shelved. There was an article in the Times & Transcript in January that stated surveying work up to Richibucto was almost completed, and once completed they would be starting the remainder up to Miramichi. They capital budget also provided funding for this type of work according to the Alward government.

The provincial government has however stated they will not go ahead with the project without Federal funding.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

It would seem that way as they have remained quiet about it, but the plans have never been shelved. There was an article in the Times & Transcript in January that stated surveying work up to Richibucto was almost completed, and once completed they would be starting the remainder up to Miramichi. They capital budget also provided funding for this type of work according to the Alward government.

The provincial government has however stated they will not go ahead with the project without Federal funding.

The last document I linked outlined that the total cost of twinning Route 11 from Shediac to Richibucto was $370 Million. From Richibucto to Miramichi, I would imagine, would be somewhere in the neighbourhood of $225-275 Million, bringing the total to around $645 Million. If the province is already surveying does that mean they are set on footing the bill from Shediac to Richibucto and expecting the Feds to continue to Miramichi, or would it be more complicated than that?

Having just recently driven Route 11 to Bouctouche it wouldn't take a lot of work to twin. There's plenty of room on both sides and it's a relatively flat and straight road. I understand the desire to twin the road for safety concerns but i'm not entirely sold on traffic. A friend of mine from Bathurst wants Route 11 twinned from Shediac to Bathurst, believing in the idea of build it and they will come: he feels as though tourists drive as far as Shediac and then turn around because the highway just sort of ends. Thus, tourists would drive a divided highway to Bathurst and *viola* economy! I'm not sold on this argument as well, but from a driving perspective it would make driving to Northern New Brunswick (however infrequently that is) much easier.

[MonctonRad]

I'm pretty sure this project has been shelved due to the current pecuniary difficulties of the province, but I can understand them completing the surveying for the highway. That would be a low cost item but a necessary one to allow for them to do further budgeting and planning.

The traffic volumes along the southern portion of route 11 are actually reasonably high, and certainly much greater than on most of the Moncton/Fredericton stretch of the TCH. The highway from Bouctouche to Shediac certainly could be divided, if for nothing else than purely for highway safety reasons. Highway 11 is flat, straight and has no passing lanes. It encourages reckless passing attempts. I certainly don't feel safe on this highway.

If dividing the highway from Shediac to Richibucto would cost $370M, it would seem reasonable that it would cost about $200M to divide it to Bouctouche. This is an achievable goal and this should be the first section twinned. Hopefully it could be done in the next 10 years.

I find this portion of the proposed alignment intriguing:



This includes the bypass around Shediac and the connection of route 11 to route 15. The red lines on the document indicate proposed realignments from the current roadway. You can see that the 11/15 interchange is completely reworked and would be much safer than the current alignment. In particular, the westbound offramp from the 11 leading to the 15 will join with the exit from Main St in Shediac onto the 15. This would be a huge improvement over the current short suicide exit onto the 11 from Main St!

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Picture snipped.

My house would be in the lower right corner of that pic...

I wonder why they are touching the 134 overpass at all... looks like they plan to simplify it by removing the loop-ramps. Why bother? Might save a BIT in the LONG run on maintenance, but it seems kinda pointless.

[Mattyyy]

I would assume the required surveying work is a low cost item, and the trees that would be removed could be sold off - so that part of the work could be done quietly.

As I said, Alward has commented that the highway is still on the agenda but they need Federal support, but it has not been shelved. The original estimated cost of the highway was just under $1 billion. There are multiple bridges that need to be constructed (9 I believe?) which make it quite expensive.

Considering I travel this highway on a regular basis, I'm easily willing to pay a toll for the safer drive, and I'm hoping the province considers this option as a method to help pay for it. I couldn't see the highway really being a benefit to tourism, however it would be very beneficial economically to the Miramichi region.

[Mattyyy]

I also forgot to add that the government also commented that they will begin expropriating the necessary land on the remaining portion of highway between Richibucto to Miramichi this year.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This includes the bypass around Shediac and the connection of route 11 to route 15. The red lines on the document indicate proposed realignments from the current roadway. You can see that the 11/15 interchange is completely reworked and would be much safer than the current alignment. In particular, the westbound offramp from the 11 leading to the 15 will join with the exit from Main St in Shediac onto the 15. This would be a huge improvement over the current short suicide exit onto the 11 from Main St!

I notice they also added a loopback exit for southbound traffic headed into Shediac off of the 11. Will they have to widen/replace the existing overpass for that? It's not very wide...

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Bangor Daily News

Private east-west highway under study differs from federally designated corridor

By Nok-Noi Ricker, BDN Staff
Posted April 09, 2012, at 8:23 p.m.
Last modified April 10, 2012, at 9:59 a.m.

BREWER, Maine — A privately funded east-west highway favored by Peter Vigue, chairman and CEO of Cianbro Corp., that gained state funding for a feasibility study last week differs from the east-west highway that was identified as a Congressional High Priority Corridor in mid-2005.

The federally designated corridor would run from Calais to Watertown, N.Y., cost about $12.5 billion and take more than 25 years to build.

That route has not advanced past the talking stage, primarily because of its price tag, which is why Vigue said he started studying a similar route that accomplishes the same goals but at a fraction of the cost.



The concept proposed by Vigue calls for a 220-mile toll highway that starts in Calais, follows the Stud Mill Road to Costigan, just north of Old Town, crosses the Penobscot River, then heads northwest to LaGrange, Milo, south of Dover-Foxcroft, Monson and The Forks before connecting to Route 27 and crossing the Canadian border into Quebec.

The expected cost of the toll highway is between $1.5 billion and $2 billion, and if everything goes as planned it could be operational by 2019, Vigue said.

“This road will connect central Maine to millions of new customers in Canada,” Republican Sen. Doug Thomas of Ripley, the bill’s chief sponsor, has said. “I hope that after decades of layoffs and business closings that this is the beginning of a more prosperous Maine.”

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/04/0...ated-corridor/

I suppose the comments on articles like these would be similar to comments on other news sites like CBC, but there are some interesting opinions.

[JHikka]

For what it's worth, a rough idea of where this highway would be going. The actual Stud Mill road ends in Princeton. Because NB created the new highway crossing south of Calais presumably the new toll highway will be linked in to that, but theoretically they could continue it north of this at Princeton if they really wanted. Crossing at Princeton/Little Ridge would require a 10KM connecter between the tolled Maine highway and Highway 1 north of St. Stephen.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Nashua Telegraph

Private Highway Appeals to Maine

Wednesday, April 25, 2012
By KATHLEEN CALLAHAN
New Hampshire Business Review

A proposed private highway running the width of northern Maine would dim the slim likelihood that a federally funded east-west highway will be built connecting northern New Hampshire to the broader New England and Canadian markets. Whether that’s good or bad for the North Country depends who you ask.

...

Promoting rural economic development is one of the forces driving the private toll highway in Maine, said Peter Vigue, president of Cianbro Corp., the Pittsfield, Maine-based company that has proposed the project.
He called the probability of a federal highway ever coming to pass “very remote.”

“This is an opportunity that has been discussed for way too many years. We believe it’s incumbent on us to deal with this issue, and move forward and look to the future,” he said.

As it’s currently proposed, the highway would snake 220 miles from the eastern border town of Calais to Coburn Gore, where it would only be about 60 miles from Sherbrooke, Quebec, which has existing east-west connections to Montreal.

“We think it will allow for the transformation of the economy in central and northern Maine … because currently it’s stagnated,” Vigue said.

Many of the people in the rural areas “have migrated to the southern part of the state or outside the state of Maine, so our connectivity from a transportation standpoint is very poor, particularly going west,” he said. “We need to change that, and we believe that (this highway) will have a significant impact on attracting future investment to these areas, and also allow people to move back to where they want to live.”

Private investors would bankroll the estimated $2 billion project, which would be maintained by tolls and could serve as a utilities and communications corridor through some of the state’s most economically depressed areas, Vigue said.

He also envisions that the road would help to promote Maine tourism.

The project has the support of Maine’s Department of Transportation as well as Gov. Paul LePage, who recently signed a bill allotting $300,000 in public funding for a feasibility study on the toll road.

If it moves forward, the highway could be operational by as early as 2018, said Vigue.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/...-to-maine.html

Don't ask me what that map is supposed to represent outside of the highway through Maine. Direct transport from St. Stephen to Fredericton rather than to Saint John? Ok.

Residents seem to like the idea of being tied more with Montreal, so there doesn't seem to be any sort of major backlash other than from NIMBYs.

Unless my math is wrong, I count a six-hour drive from Saint John to Montreal via the cross-Maine highway. That cuts about three/four hours off the current drive if driving through Edmundston/Riviere-du-Loup

[someone123]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Unless my math is wrong, I count a six-hour drive from Saint John to Montreal via the cross-Maine highway.

Your math is not wrong, assuming decent highway speeds. Saint John to Montreal is under 600 km.

It's very similar to the distance of 550 km between Toronto and Montreal.

This is one of those things that's been accepted as a disadvantage of the remote Maritimes when in reality it's a question of poor infrastructure, not geographic challenges.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

This is one of those things that's been accepted as a disadvantage of the remote Maritimes when in reality it's a question of poor infrastructure, not geographic challenges.

Indeed. As you can probably tell, i'm very excited about this highway, as I think it opens up a lot more opportunities to the Maritimes, Maine, and Quebec as a whole. If Montreal is suddenly only a six hour drive instead of ten, i'm definitely going to make that trip more often.

Even smaller things like having the 200,000 metro Sherbrooke within four hours of Saint John/Fredericton is a plus for the region, and this highway opens up that connection and allows the Maritimes to become more tied-in to Quebec and, subsequently, Central Canada.

[mylesmalley]

I wish that map you just posted was a little more legible!

[DisplacedHaligonian]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

I wish that map you just posted was a little more legible!

there's a much clearer picture of the map HERE

[Steelcowboy]

http://www.easternrailroadnews.com/2...new-brunswick/

[Steelcowboy]

For those who are interested, I got this from a CP conductor who tracks shipments for me.

"A train 606-245 showing on the line-ups in Wisconsin when I checked earlier. This #606 has a profile from New Town, ND to St. Luc, PQ with interchange to the MMA for furtherance to Irving Oil in Saint John, NB. Planned departure ex-New Town at 0930 Saturday AM and projected arrival into St. Luc next Tuesday evening (June 5th). Give the Maritime Boys a heads-up if you want!"

PS for those who watched CTV news on Wednesday and sw the clipping about a TEST TRAIN arriving from North Dakota...well the TEST is the routing not anything to do with the contents of the railcars. Railroads do this to decide the haulage agreements and the routing which the shipper will decide to take. This test would be deemed as a failure, a UNIT train --which is a train that contains ALL the same product or similiar should arrive as a unit to the destination, the current test had the train split into 3 parts and take 3 days to arrive at the destination, this train was also shipped by 5 different railroads, BNSF-CSXT-PanAM-MMA-NBSR. the more direct and quickest routing would have been BNSF-CN(at Chicago) to Saint John. This train that is arriving next week is originating on the CP in North Dakota and will remain on CP property right through to Saint John....even though its owned by MMA or NBSR...CP will always have grandfather rights to shipping its cargo on that line through hauling agreements settled at the time of the sale of the rail.

Once Saint John's Irving plant sets itself up to unload these cars..it will be a fluid operation were cars arrive, get unloaded and return to North Dakota.