I thought they stopped doing this- Houston communities may lose homes due to freeway

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I highly doubt that people would stop moving to Houston if the city better allocated their transportation infrastructure. It would probably grow more if they had better transit.

It also doesn't seem like this is sustainable for Houston. Houston and Brooklyn added a similar number of people between 2010 and 2020 (205k vs 231k). But Brooklyn's land area is 1/10 the size of Houston's. There are only so many places for Houston to stick 10-lane highways to keep growing, while Brooklyn didn't have to add any transit infrastructure to absorb the growth.

Maybe the city of Houston added 200K over ten years but the greater Houston metro added quite a bit more.

I don’t wholly support this plan but eventually all the freeways and interstates in Houston, in Texas, and the US will either need to be replaced or rebuilt over decades.

Not building this and relying on “public transit” just isn’t a realistic goal in the least.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Completely going in the wrong direction. Doubling down on the most inefficient way to move volumes of people.

Which is funny when you look at Houston’s northern neighbor in DFW. All those billions in rail expansion and so few passengers.

Meanwhile Houston is investing heavily in bus service and BRT.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

7-8 main lanes in each direction, 14-16 total.
5-6 frontage lanes in each direction, 10-12 total.

Texas freeways are deliberately (and stupidly) designed to run down the middle of what are essentially large boulevards.

If people want to take issue with something, take issue with the fact that Texas still insists on building frontage roads. If they didn’t have those, they wouldn’t ve expanding the right-of-way.

Why do they call it a right-of-way? Because there is a communitarian right to be able to move freely without trespassing against private property. In other words, we collectively (and as a result individually, because of the nature of this particular right) have a right to make our “way” to wherever we want. In the U.S. constitutional regime communitarian rights can and often do, within certain bounds, take precedence over individual rights (in this case property ownership). The tool used to ensure that the communitarian right of freedom of movement remains viable: eminent domain.

For most of our history we have exercised eminent domain principally to ensure that the freedom of movement of people via public rights-of-way. In fact, the use of this principle for this purpose is so uncontroversial historically that it wasn’t until governments starting using the tool for movement of goods (railroads) rather than people that it became controversial. Hell, at least this is a PUBLIC use and not the shenanigans that New London pulled seizing land to give to a developer and then arguing to the U.S. Supreme Court that it was in the public’s broader interest…

Guess who won: New London.

This thread is exactly the same thing as when TxDoT released the newest schematics for Austin’s I-35 reconstruction where, just like here, so many people seem to miss the forest for the weeds. So what a few people are being displaced and being justly compensated for their property? Like hella benefits are coming with that project:

1. Significant capped parkland and much wider bridges for pedestrian use.
2. Burying the highway beneath grade and reconnecting the adjacent neighborhoods.
3. Reducing the number of, extending the remaining, and declining the grade of entrances and on ramps.
4. Adding managed lanes.
5. Cantilevering the access roads over the freeway in places to reduce RoW acquisitions.
6. Bringing the overall design of the freeway up to current interstate standards. This stretch of freeway was built under the original standards that are long since obsolete and do not function well with the vastly superior modern technology on our roads today.
7. Improved signage.
8. Aesthetic improvements to the freeway.
9. Adding lanes in both directions in all categories and maximizing the use of existing right of way by removing concrete embankments and choosing to instead use vertical retaining walls (again, and I cannot say this enough, thereby further minimizing additional RoW acquisition).

All of these things are also true of Houston’s freeway project.

Missing. The. Forest. For. The. Weeds. People.

p.s. I am calling them weeds instead of trees because y’all are finding a few bad details and ignoring all the good ones. The good ones are the trees and if you were looking from above rather than from on-the-ground you’d see the forest and not be so focused on the couple of weeds.

I mean who cares if the current design is incredibly dangerous…. Take a trainzzzz!

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by BnaBreaker

Well, they're casually dropping nine billion dollars at a time to widen an already absurdly wide freeway. That's part of the problem right there. If a 26 lane freeway didn't easy traffic, what the hell makes them think a 28 lane freeway will? And what is their end game? Just eventually pave over everything?

Christ…. The hyperbole….. yes pave over everything because the current freeway is absurdly wide, old, and dangerous.

Many of y’all would cut off your nose to spite your face.

[JManc]

Don't you know, SSP knows what's best for Houston than Houston does. We all drive cars but freeways some reason don't make sense.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by JManc

Don't you know, SSP knows what's best for Houston than Houston does. We all drive cars but freeways some reason don't make sense.

SF and LA say "hold my beer, H-town!". One single store closing or a tent being shown in a picture is national news. Look at how many outsiders were furious at HSR on an urbanist website...

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Completely going in the wrong direction. Doubling down on the most inefficient way to move volumes of people.

The "efficiency" of how many people you can squeeze in a metal box is not an efficiency users care about; overwhelmingly it appears to be time to destination, range, convenience/flexibility and comfort.

And given Harris County's complete lack of transit ridership growth in 20+ years, transit is extraordinarily inefficient based on tax money spent for each passenger-trip.

[badrunner]

Can you really say that a city is truly urban if it doesn't have at least a couple of stack interchanges?

[Nite]

Originally Posted by JManc

Don't you know, SSP knows what's best for Houston than Houston does. We all drive cars but freeways some reason don't make sense.

As not just bike illustrates in this video, Houston seems to be one of the most desolate and hostile cities in North America to its population. And instead of trying to improve things they are going to bulldoze neighborhoods.

• Video Link

[benp]

In 2007 at a neighborhood meeting discussing area sidewalks and walkability, the state of the sidewalks on Richmond Avenue were discussed, and all agreed that they were to be added to a list the city was developing for a major sidewalk improvements in the near term. The next year, changes were deferred pending total rebuild of the street to support the University Line rail. The next year the rail line was cancelled (no work was done), and I was informed by the city that they were delaying any sidewalk repair or replacement until a major roadway improvement was completed. They said maybe by 2011.

Here is the same sidewalk in 2021. Other parts of the street are little better.
Note that Richmond is a bus route, connects to a major Transit Center with rail access, and also a significant cross-city travel route. The neighborhood density is over 12,000 ppsm and still growing. There were people who would await buses in wheelchairs on this road when I lived nearby, blocking a car lane occasionally.

Houston just doesn't care. Any walkable improvements are all just for show, with no connectivity or consistency. The car is king, even in neighborhoods that are crying for walkability improvements.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by benp

Well, all I can say is as former resident who lived along Montrose, I can see nothing good coming from this redesign for people who live inside the loop.

Then you must not have travelled much around the inner loop or have travelled I45 north.

[benp]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Then you must not have travelled much around the inner loop or have travelled I45 north.

Too many times.

People who live in the loop and work inside the loop don't have to take freeways to do so. That's the benefit of a densely developed community.

These changes are designed primarily for people who live outside the loop, and travel in and through the city.

[JManc]

The vast majority of Houston lives/ works outside of the Loop. Ugly and intrusive as they may be, freeways are the only realistic option for the foreseeable future. Local officials should absolutely should aggressively move towards alternative means but that's a long term strategy. Again, not sure why people here struggle with this. Or should Houston suffer through aging and inefficient infrastructure because new freeways are bad. It's going take a generation if not longer for things to shift and Houston is already decades behind peers like Dallas and Atlanta.

[benp]

Originally Posted by JManc

The vast majority of Houston lives/ works outside of the Loop. Ugly and intrusive as they may be, freeways are the only realistic option for the foreseeable future. Local officials should absolutely should aggressively move towards alternative means but that's a long term strategy. Again, not sure why people here struggle with this. Or should Houston suffer through aging and inefficient infrastructure because new freeways are bad. It's going take a generation if not longer for things to shift and Houston is already decades behind peers like Dallas and Atlanta.

Of course maintenance and replacement is important in an aging system, and should always be a high priority. But continuing to expand Houston freeways is a "self-eating watermelon" in solving problems of aging and overuse of the freeways. The more expansion occurs, the less momentum exists in finding and developing alternate transit solutions.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by JManc

The vast majority of Houston lives/ works outside of the Loop. Ugly and intrusive as they may be, freeways are the only realistic option for the foreseeable future. Local officials should absolutely should aggressively move towards alternative means but that's a long term strategy. Again, not sure why people here struggle with this. Or should Houston suffer through aging and inefficient infrastructure because new freeways are bad. It's going take a generation if not longer for things to shift and Houston is already decades behind peers like Dallas and Atlanta.

That's even more reason why this seems misguided. It's not like freeways can be built overnight. This will take years to be completed.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

That's even more reason why this seems misguided. It's not like freeways can be built overnight. This will take years to be completed.

And decades to undo the damage caused to the urban fabric. Spend billions, to destroy billions, and then having to spend billions, to undo the damage caused by spending billions.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by Nite

As not just bike illustrates in this video, Houston seems to be one of the most desolate and hostile cities in North America to its population. And instead of trying to improve things they are going to bulldoze neighborhoods.

I'd just like to point out that the area that video shows is as far away from downtown Houston as Richmond Hill is from downtown Toronto. Inner city areas are not as bad... they aren't great... for the most part... but they aren't that bad. And they are getting better... slowly.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by C.

This thread has been an interesting read. Forumers from any other city would be ashamed for this type of freeway expansion, but the Houstonites are proud of it. Mind blown!

First of all, we're Houstonians, not "Houstonites" (The only "ites" are in Dallas or Austin). Secondly, we are not all thrilled about this freeway expansion. And most importantly, it's the state, not the city, that is doing this. City and county leaders are actually opposed to much if not most of it.

[mhays]

That's a consolation at least.

Apparently some people on this thread are to the right of the city/county leaders.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

That's even more reason why this seems misguided. It's not like freeways can be built overnight. This will take years to be completed.

Houston has been one big freeway construction/demolition/reconstruction site since the first freeway was built in the '40s. It never ends.