2023 Transportation Master Plan

[J.OT13]

Thanks for the visual. I was looking at this, but clearly it shows a different path.



Yours is more accurate.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Thanks for the visual. I was looking at this, but clearly it shows a different path.



Yours is more accurate.

Now THAT is interesting. An Innes transitway starting at Hurdman/Lycee Claudel?

Probably have to bury the section just west of Russell. Those NIMBY's and the Pearly Rideau wouldn't really be gung-ho about a new BRT in their greenspace. But adjacent to the hospital is a great place for it.

[OCCheetos]

The sections of the Transitway that are included in the first phase are the Transitways from
Blair Station to Innes and the Hospital Link (Lycée Claudel to Innes / Blair) to facilitate transit operation
during conversion of the exiting East Transitway[...]

Haha...

[Truenorth00]

I don't get why there isn't an effort to connect Innes to Hurdman via Industrial Ave, if the Lycee Claudel link is too expensive/low ROI.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I saw someone speculate that it could connect to OC Transpo's Industrial Garage. It could offer more efficient dispatching of vehicles to the east end, especially if the Cumberland transitway is built.



As far as I can tell, the Lycée Claudel-Innes transitway wouldn't have used any rail corridors, and would have instead followed the existing hydro corridor.

There's a substation in the way, but otherwise nothing technically would preclude it from ever being built:

There's some history on this here:

BACKGROUND

In 2006, the Ontario Municipal Board heard an appeal of the City’s 2003 Official Plan (OP) related to Schedule D. Specifically the issue was about the City’s inclusion of a section of the rapid transit network in the vicinity of Browning Avenue (near the Hospital Lands). On 30 November 2006, the Ontario Municipal Board issued a decision and ordered that an EA be conducted and completed by no later than 31 December 2009. The decision also stated that if the EA was not completed as of this date the designation of the Browning corridor as a “Future Rapid Transit Corridor - Alignment” would be deleted from the Official Plan.



On 02 July 2008 Transit Committee approved the Statement of Work for the Hospital Link Transit Corridor Planning and EA Study. A Planning and EA Study to address the Browning Corridor issue was initiated following Council’s approval of the updated 2008 TMP. An additional motion was carried that included that the boundary of the EA Study be amended, north and south, to include the Belfast Road, Industrial Avenue and Smyth Road corridors, and that the study area be extended to include a corridor connection to the existing Cumberland Transitway Corridor; and that it be coordinated with the TMP Update.

On 28 October 2009 Council received a report indicating that the Browning Corridor would be removed from consideration as a future transit corridor. This corridor was discarded mainly due to the high cost of the relocation of the existing Hydro One towers and the potential impact to local residents.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

There's some history on this here:

Wow that's some really good background, thank you. I think that puts that random stub of grade-separated BRT in context now, since in the TMP there are still bus lanes on Belfast and Terminal (which were excluded in the OP map).

I wonder if those bus lanes + the potential "grade separation" around Innes would still be part of the Cumberland BRT plan..?

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Wow that's some really good background, thank you. I think that puts that random stub of grade-separated BRT in context now, since in the TMP there are still bus lanes on Belfast and Terminal (which were excluded in the OP map).

I wonder if those bus lanes + the potential "grade separation" around Innes would still be part of the Cumberland BRT plan..?

The bus lanes on Terminal & Belfast were the recommendations of that study from 2009, as an alternative to the Browning Corridor. The connection from the Transitway to the hospital was maintained as a "stub" and a version of it exists today with the Hospital Link Rd.

But since this plan was developed, Blair Rd has been advanced as a transit corridor and the connection point for the Cumberland Transitway and that seems most likely to move forward first- there are funds in the 2021 budget for bus lanes on Blair. I'm not really sure why 2 "branches" are required.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

The bus lanes on Terminal & Belfast were the recommendations of that study from 2009, as an alternative to the Browning Corridor. The connection from the Transitway to the hospital was maintained as a "stub" and a version of it exists today with the Hospital Link Rd.

But since this plan was developed, Blair Rd has been advanced as a transit corridor and the connection point for the Cumberland Transitway and that seems most likely to move forward first- there are funds in the 2021 budget for bus lanes on Blair. I'm not really sure why 2 "branches" are required.

If the Browning corridor could be kept it would have made for a nice connection to the general hospital from the east end. Without it, that whole connection does lose a lot of its value..

Anyway, I don't know if Terminal Ave. gets enough traffic to warrant dedicated bus lanes, especially with the cost of widening the bridge over Riverside (we have more important bridges to widen!), but even on a cut-down budget maybe a simplified, non-milk-run version of the 42 could still be a somewhat popular route:



But that's probably best for another thread..

[eltodesukane]

from November 2008 (Document 10: 2008 Draft Transportation Master Plan Document (TMP))
https://app06.ottawa.ca/calendar/ott...8-ICS-PLA-0227

[J.OT13]

Thanks bradnixon, very helpful! Too bad because the General campus is arguably the most important single complex in our city not served, (or soon to be served within the next decade), by rapid transit.

Terminal/Belfast/Industrial/Innes would be just about useless, serving big box stores, industrial and low density residential. A bridge or tunnel to the VIA station, bus lanes on St-Laurent and the Blair bus lanes would/will do more for less.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Thanks bradnixon, very helpful! Too bad because the General campus is arguably the most important single complex in our city not served, (or soon to be served within the next decade), by rapid transit.

Yes, I remember thinking removing the Browning corridor was really unfortunate because it precludes the possibility of running buses from Orleans directly to the hospital. IIRC Orleans is were the highest proportion of CHEO/General Hospital employees live.

But now that LRT has been extended to Trim, I think it is really unlikely that the city would want to run buses from Orleans all the way to Hurdman. With the capacity of Line 1, it makes more sense to direct people to Line 1 and shuttle them to the hospital from Hurdman.

The existing connection from Hurdman to the Hopsital on Route 45 is pretty fast (4 minutes from Hurdman to the Rehab Centre). It could stand to be more frequent (particularly at the evening shift changes between 19:00 and 20:00), but that's just a matter of operational funding, not infrastructure.

A bridge or tunnel to the VIA station, bus lanes on St-Laurent and the Blair bus lanes would/will do more for less.

+1000 to the Tremblay bridge/tunnel to Trainyards. This is the single biggest project that would expand the reach of the rapid transit system without actually building more rapid transit.

[TransitZilla]

OK, here's something that bugs me about the TMP and new OP.

The Kanat North Transitway is routed around Beaverbrook rather than along Teron Rd where the existing transit service is. One of the schedules in the OP even has March Rd in this section designated as a "corridor" which is where intensification is supposed to take place.

How is this even remotely possible? One side of March Rd. is Greenbelt, the other side is low density residential tucked behind a berm, and it is essentially a 6-lane freeway.

I know Beaverbrook is resistant to change, but Teron Rd (the red arrow) already has transit service with established ridership, moderate density, it has lots that could be easily intensified, and there is room to widen it with bus lanes. Just make Teron Rd the Transit corridor already!

[passwordisnt123]

Haven't seen anybody post this on this forum yet but OCTranspo posted on their youtube channel that they're reorganizing the nomenclature for the O-Train network. I frankly like this better.



Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHyO...ature=youtu.be

[Nowhere]

Does that means that every single train will go all the way to Trim while Algonquin and Moodie only get every other train ?

[Gat-Train]

The Carling line looks pretty much useless. I'd like to see it extended to the DND campus, and possibly even swing down to Moodie Station, then through Bells Corners if possible.

[Uhuniau]

Wait - the Queensway is a "scenic" route?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Does that means that every single train will go all the way to Trim while Algonquin and Moodie only get every other train ?

Based on the most recent info.

• All trains headed east will terminate at Trim.
• 1/4 of the trains heading west will start at Blair, while 3/4 will start at Trim.
• Past Lincoln Fields heading west, 1/2 will go to Algonquin and 1/2 will go to Moodie daytime and rush hour.
• In the evening, when frequency drops to 15 minutes, all line 1 will trains will travel between Algonquin and Trim while Line 3 trains will travel between Moodie and Lincoln Fields, requiring a transfer between Lines 1 and 3.

I hope this clarifies the expected service patterns.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Based on the most recent info.

• All trains headed east will terminate at Trim.
• 1/4 of the trains heading west will start at Blair, while 3/4 will start at Trim.
• Past Lincoln Fields heading west, 1/2 will go to Algonquin and 1/2 will go to Moodie daytime and rush hour.
• In the evening, when frequency drops to 15 minutes, all line 1 will trains will travel between Algonquin and Trim while Line 3 trains will travel between Moodie and Lincoln Fields, requiring a transfer between Lines 1 and 3.

I hope this clarifies the expected service patterns.

Really weird that they plan on deadheading a quarter of the trains to Blair before putting them back into service.

[Richard Eade]

My question would be; Is that 15-minute headways on the ‘main-line’ (Lincoln Fields to Trim), or 15-minute service on each of the western/southern ‘arms’?

If it is 15-minute frequency on the ‘main-line’, then each ‘arm’ will be down to half-hour service before jumping back to 15-minute train service. This is not likely, but the description given by OC Transpo has been ambiguous.

If it is 15-minute service per ‘arm’ (7.5-minute frequency on the ‘main-line’, equally split between the ‘arms’), will there then be a big jump in headway on the ‘main-line’ from 7.5- to 15-minute service, to match the Moodie ‘arm’? Or will the Algonquin ‘arm’ have different headways than the 15-minute Moodie ‘arm’, making transfers less predictable?

Or, will the ‘Western Shuttle’, on the Moodie ‘arm’, be run at frequencies of less than 15 minutes so that it can match the Algonquin ‘arm’?

OC Transpo has talked about the train frequencies at certain times of the day, but I have not heard how the transitions are to be handled.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Based on the most recent info.

• All trains headed east will terminate at Trim.
• 1/4 of the trains heading west will start at Blair, while 3/4 will start at Trim.
• Past Lincoln Fields heading west, 1/2 will go to Algonquin and 1/2 will go to Moodie daytime and rush hour.
• In the evening, when frequency drops to 15 minutes, all line 1 will trains will travel between Algonquin and Trim while Line 3 trains will travel between Moodie and Lincoln Fields, requiring a transfer between Lines 1 and 3.

In the Railfans video, I don't think that's really what Pat Scrimgeour said. He said all trains go to Trim during the PM rush hour. In the AM rush hour, if they're starting westbound trains from Blair, then I'm sure the eastbound trains will be ending there.