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  #101  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 5:44 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Reading this as someone who came to Canada as a pre-teen is eye-opening. Unbelievable that some have learned nothing from the Japanese Canadian internment.

And people wonder why the CPC is having a hard time with immigrants. Posts like these are a strong reminder that despite what the politicians say, a good bit of the conservative base will never see us as equal citizens. And some are okay with locking us up just for the mistake of being the wrong race.

I'm not even ethnically Chinese. I can only imagine how a Chinese Canadian coming upon these comments might feel.
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  #102  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 6:17 PM
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Back then and for quite some time after the war, society was much more racist and segregationist than it is today. Even in Canada visible minority groups mostly "kept to their own kind" and this suited the majority population just fine. They were even strongly encouraged to do so as you can imagine.

If we still have some people suspicious of divided loyalties today I wonder if the relative absence of pressure to assimilate or even integrate to a high degree into Canadian culture might play a role in any of this. (Not trying to overestimate how many people are concerned about this, BTW. Still, it's shown up on SSP and there is more than one "believer". It's almost certainly out there.) Stuff like allowing dual citizenships is another example, arguably.

So I guess my question is if people who moved here from abroad were all compelled to say more strongly that they're Canadian and nothing else, and behave that way, would anything change?

This is just a mental exercise. I've long said that people who are racist and xenophobic will always find a way to assuage their dark instincts, no matter what.

African-Americans are as American as apple pie with no divided loyalties to any other polity (ie African countries) but they still face lots of racism. But no one would claim they divide their loyalties between the US and another country. (Though some argue they're more loyal to their community than to the country as a whole. Which I think is understandable given the history.)
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  #103  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
I'm not even ethnically Chinese. I can only imagine how a Chinese Canadian coming upon these comments might feel.
I must have missed the comments you're referring to that were that bad...? The question of how to identify PRC spies and what to do about their inevitable presence in our country is a valid one, if we're about to enter an era of Cold War with China.
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  #104  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 7:50 PM
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The comments are categorically abhorrent. There is no fucking need to debate. I am disgusted that these comments were not only uttered, but because they were insufficiently condemned by the SSP membership.
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  #105  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 7:52 PM
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Always an amusing typo, that. Actually they were merely interned (alive), not interred.
I also sometimes mix up etymology and entomology.
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  #106  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I must have missed the comments you're referring to that were that bad...? The question of how to identify PRC spies and what to do about their inevitable presence in our country is a valid one, if we're about to enter an era of Cold War with China.
'If' being the operative word. Some people in here have seized on that hypothetical like a bunch of paranoid tweakers. Maybe that's what it takes to think locking up a million and a half people based on their race is anything less than monstrous.

It's not like Canada doesn't have its own intelligence agency, with people trained in finding spies. Their methods are a lot better than *be racist*.
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  #107  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 9:24 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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It's not like Canada doesn't have its own intelligence agency, with people trained in finding spies. Their methods are a lot better than *be racist*.
And if you ever talked to our intelligence services, you'd realize that they have substantial ties to Canada's minority communities. And a diverse workforce that makes them especially cognizant of the threat that these families face from their homeland governments.

I worked with a naturalized Chinese Canadian in a position of some sensitivity. To this day, everybody aside from his parents think he's a boring public servant who does IT in Ottawa. He was probably more paranoid than the counter-intelligence folks. He was briefed and debriefed before any trips he took to visit family in China (his grandmother was still there). The idea that people would question the loyalty of folks like these is just disgusting to me. They are more willing than native born Canadians to put their lives on the line. And yet, some can just casually insinuate that they're disloyal in a conversation, because of their ethnicity.
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  #108  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 9:31 PM
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There is another analogy between the 1920s and 2020s that is also playing out........socio-economic divide. The 1920s were the Guilded Age where there was huge stratification between those who have and those that don't.

BC in particular reflects this as society is increasingly being divided between those who own and those who can't afford to. It breeds a lot of resentment and is based upon what kind of family you were born into and, due to astronomical real estate prices, the glass ceiling is getting much harder to crack for those at the lower or even middle incomes.
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  #109  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2021, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
And if you ever talked to our intelligence services, you'd realize that they have substantial ties to Canada's minority communities. And a diverse workforce that makes them especially cognizant of the threat that these families face from their homeland governments.

I worked with a naturalized Chinese Canadian in a position of some sensitivity. To this day, everybody aside from his parents think he's a boring public servant who does IT in Ottawa. He was probably more paranoid than the counter-intelligence folks. He was briefed and debriefed before any trips he took to visit family in China (his grandmother was still there). The idea that people would question the loyalty of folks like these is just disgusting to me. They are more willing than native born Canadians to put their lives on the line. And yet, some can just casually insinuate that they're disloyal in a conversation, because of their ethnicity.
I think it would be a bit naive though to think that if we have people living in other countries working for us, "against" their home country, that other countries aren't doing the same here on Canadian soil.

Though this is not necessarily related to ethnicity. Certainly not to the point where an entire group can be slandered for blanket (assumed) disloyalty.

Don't forget that our most traitorous spy in recent years was a guy named Cameron Ortis.
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  #110  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2021, 2:06 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Don't forget that our most traitorous spy in recent years was a guy named Cameron Ortis.
And the big leak before that was Sub-Lieutenant Jefferey Paul Delisle. But sure, we have to worry about Asian immigrants and not white guys looking to sell secrets for money.
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  #111  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2021, 2:08 AM
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And the big leak before that was Sub-Lieutenant Jefferey Paul Delisle. But sure, we have to worry about Asian immigrants and not white guys looking to sell secrets for money.
Actually, both are theoretically possible.
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  #112  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2021, 2:43 AM
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Actually, both are theoretically possible.
Anything is theoretically possible. Should we start advocating for the internment of middle aged white guys with debt as a precautionary measure?

Incidentally, when going through screening for a clearance, those who weren't born in Canada and/or with ties to an ethnic homeland face substantial scrutiny. Arguably far more than some of these individuals who are financially compromised.
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  #113  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2021, 3:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Anything is theoretically possible. Should we start advocating for the internment of middle aged white guys with debt as a precautionary measure?

Incidentally, when going through screening for a clearance, those who weren't born in Canada and/or with ties to an ethnic homeland face substantial scrutiny. Arguably far more than some of these individuals who are financially compromised.
After the US had several high-profile leaks to the Soviets in the 1970s and 1980s, financial considerations factored into screening of sensitive individuals much more prominently. If you had access to sensitive material and lived much better than your salary would seem to indicate, one definitely attracted more security interest after that.

That being said, we should thoroughly vet anyone who might have a motivation and means to betray Canada.

As for the average immigrant? I hardly suspect they're secretly paving the way for a takeover from Nation X. Mostly trying to get by, just like the rest of us.
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  #114  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2021, 3:19 AM
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The real cold war also became such a part of our cultural existence, as in spy novels and Hollywood movies involving the KGB, CIA, MI6, etc., including dystopian and apocalyptic themes, that it pervaded and thrived in our popular culture indelibly even until today. I can't imagine such a mainstream cultural reaction to China.
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  #115  
Old Posted Feb 22, 2021, 5:26 PM
CivicBlues CivicBlues is offline
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post

Remember there are really 2 different Chinas.........the Hong Kong/Taiwanese who are very democratically oriented and believe strongly in human rights. Then there are the Mainlanders who generally don't. They have absolutely nothing in common except superficial culture ties. You can clearly see this in Vancouver where the 2 groups have nothing to do with each other and there is a real tension between them.

Those from HK/Taiwan tend to meld into the wider society at large and by the second generation are completely 'Canadianized' while this is not the case with Mainlanders who tend to isolate themselves and share little in common with general Canadian values and more importantly don't want to.
This statement is categorically false and extremely ignorant, although not so as much as LakeLocker's comments (my god, glad to see him finally banned though). Is there resentment between the haves and have nots within the Chinese community? Of course same as with any community but to state they are staying away from each other because of geopolitical happenings is ludicrous. Also you clearly weren't here in the late-80s and early-90s when the exact same insults were being thrown at Hong Kong immigrants - their "monster houses" and inability to assimilate. Who the hell do you think started Richmond as we know it in the first place?

What's even more hilarious is that this is coming from a white guy living in White Rock who immigrated from Ontario late in life. I highly doubt you can tell the difference between a Cantonese speaker from Guangzhou vs HK or a Mandarin Speaker from Fujian vs Taipei let alone the nuances within the community. Best to keep your mouth shut going forward, but since you rarely ever engage in dialogue preferring to make tangential statements every once in a while I hope you slip up some day and meet LakeLocker's fate sooner than later.
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