[Halifax] QE II Health Sciences Centre | ? | ? | U/C

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Agreed. Though it hasn't seemed to matter so far as the local media people still seem more than happy to quote her in their articles.

Mostly Pam Berman at CBC who has her on speed dial. Occasionally she pops up elsewhere but CBC is her house organ.

[q12]

https://www.qe2times.ca/new-qeii-new-generation-339

[Half-Axed]

This is massive and not entirely terrible. I'm struggling a bit to see the orientation of a couple of the photos, but a couple look decent.

I don't like the Robie wall at all - it's very monolithic and typically institutional / ugly. The people in the George and Atlantica will have that as their view - lucky them!

Originally Posted by q12

https://www.qe2times.ca/new-qeii-new-generation-339

[DigitalNinja]

I'm surprised they didn't move the helipad to one of the taller buildings so they could build higher around Summer St & Bell Rd if not now then eventually.

[Keith P.]

In the last image of that group you get a good sense of the scale of all this. The structures along the Robie St side dwarf the existing hospital building. Not overly surprising when you consider the size of the VG Complex that it is replacing, but earlier renders did not communicate the scale quite as well.

A few things strike me. First, they might have been better off demolishing some of the existing older buildings nearby, like the museum, the Abbie Lane, or whatever, and organizing the new builds a bit better. The two I mentioned are probably the easiest to relocate to other locations. Second, I can only imagine how long it will take the province to complete construction on this scale. We may well be talking decades at the pace they normally move at. I wonder if this will turn out to be big enough by then, despite its impressive size.

[Half-Axed]

It also occurs to me that when this and the new Parkland tower are built, the Willow Tree is going to feel very, very different!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I can only imagine how long it will take the province to complete construction on this scale. We may well be talking decades at the pace they normally move at. I wonder if this will turn out to be big enough by then, despite its impressive size.

Hospitals are like European cathedrals. Construction is never truly complete.

[Half-Axed]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I wonder if this will turn out to be big enough by then, despite its impressive size.

Doubt it. I remember the Infirmary (can we stop calling it the New Infirmary now??) was too small already before it was even finished and had to be redesigned right away. Same thing with the Truro Hospital.

They need to stop thinking "replacement". Even if the population weren't quickly growing, it would be quickly aging and in need of more hospitals. Unfortunately it's hard to think "increase" when the tax base is shrinking.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Half-Axed

It also occurs to me that when this and the new Parkland tower are built, the Willow Tree is going to feel very, very different!

Plus the tower next door to the Parkland, which will be nearly as tall.

[Half-Axed]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Plus the tower next door to the Parkland, which will be nearly as tall.

Right. I forgot that was finally approved. And from the other end of the QEII you'll probably be able to see the new 30 story towers down the block.

Little Hali is growing up. *sniff*

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Half-Axed

And from the other end of the QEII you'll probably be able to see the new 30 story towers down the block.

I hope those (all four of them) actually get built. It's all about timing, which depends on variables which are mostly or at least partly out of the developers' control: the city approval mill and the market. It doesn't take much to miss the window, especially with two such massive developments side by side. I could envision one coming out of the ground just in time to make the other impractical.

But HRM is growing rapidly, so presumably the market will continue to be strong for the foreseeable future.

[Half-Axed]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I hope those (all four of them) actually get built. It's all about timing, which depends on variables which are mostly or at least partly out of the developers' control: the city approval mill and the market. It doesn't take much to miss the window, especially with two such massive developments side by side. I could envision one coming out of the ground just in time to make the other impractical.

But HRM is growing rapidly, so presumably the market will continue to be strong for the foreseeable future.

I think so. Who woulda thunk 10 years ago that Halifax could now have several 30 story towers being built all at once (assuming the ones all approved start soon)?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Half-Axed

Right. I forgot that was finally approved. And from the other end of the QEII you'll probably be able to see the new 30 story towers down the block.

There are a lot of major projects running right along Robie Street. Probably 12-15 in total along 25 blocks or so.

I think the feel of the whole city is going to transform much more than the projects suggest because a bunch of previously separate areas (e.g. Quinpool and Spring Garden Road, Dalhousie from downtown, Gottingen and downtown, Gottingen/Agricola/Young) will blend together more. "Downtown" might be 2x the land area in a few years, and will be more mixed use rather than associated with office buildings. In some cases (e.g. Gottingen) this is really just a "recovery" from past decline.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Half-Axed

Even if the population weren't quickly growing, it would be quickly aging and in need of more hospitals. Unfortunately it's hard to think "increase" when the tax base is shrinking.

Do you see the built-in contradiction in what you wrote?

The tax base is surely not shrinking. Here in HRM the municipality has been raking in a double windfall from real growth in property assessment (i.e. new construction) and increasing property values. Meanwhile as the overall population increases, the province takes in more income tax and sales tax revenue and receives more in health transfers from Ottawa.

The provincial need for revenue is far more urgent than that of HRM, so I hope the Houston govt is looking quietly into methods by which they can legislate HRM to pay for some of the things its growth is causing to have an impact upon the provincial budget.

[Half-Axed]

You left out the middle part of what I said and seem to have ignored the “if”.

If the population were continuing to stagnate as it had been until recently, the tax base would be shrinking because of the aging of the population. In that scenario it is very hard for government to think “expansion” to keep up with that aging.

It’s one of the reasons they have chronically underbuilt.

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Do you see the built-in contradiction in what you wrote?

The tax base is surely not shrinking. Here in HRM the municipality has been raking in a double windfall from real growth in property assessment (i.e. new construction) and increasing property values. Meanwhile as the overall population increases, the province takes in more income tax and sales tax revenue and receives more in health transfers from Ottawa.

The provincial need for revenue is far more urgent than that of HRM, so I hope the Houston govt is looking quietly into methods by which they can legislate HRM to pay for some of the things its growth is causing to have an impact upon the provincial budget.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The provincial need for revenue is far more urgent than that of HRM, so I hope the Houston govt is looking quietly into methods by which they can legislate HRM to pay for some of the things its growth is causing to have an impact upon the provincial budget.

Shouldn't this growth be putting NS into a better position in terms of costs vs. revenues and particularly with health care? The new people are more likely to move to economically productive areas while the older population that is shrinking was disproportionately (truly) rural and difficult to provide modern services to.

The health transfer was changed to be strictly per capita so immigration based population growth will be even more helpful in that area now. Immigrants are selected partly based on low health care needs (low age, lack of major existing conditions).

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Half-Axed

You left out the middle part of what I said and seem to have ignored the “if”.

If the population were continuing to stagnate as it had been until recently, the tax base would be shrinking because of the aging of the population. In that scenario it is very hard for government to think “expansion” to keep up with that aging.

It’s one of the reasons they have chronically underbuilt.

I don't think I left anything out, as I just copied and pasted what you wrote.

However, if you are trying to say that your original statement wasn't worded quite as it should have been, then no problem.

As for the original construction of the QEII back in the '90s, I have some firsthand knowledge of that. The issues you cite both around its undersized state and the need to restructure things inside it even as it was opening was due largely to the mindset of those responsible at whatever the name of the department responsible for construction of provincial buildings was at the time. It was headed by the parsimonious and somewhat tyrannical Deputy Minister Don Power who exerted an iron hand over things like actual user needs, in favor of only what he considered necessary. This was in a time were battles royale would occur between his people and those on the client/DoH side over things like floor tile choices or the number of waiting room chairs. Few dared challenge him and his influence was such that even senior people in the then DoH had little ability to change that. Hopefully this project is being done differently.

[Half-Axed]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I don't think I left anything out, as I just copied and pasted what you wrote.

However, if you are trying to say that your original statement wasn't worded quite as it should have been, then no problem.

You left a whole element of what I wrote out of your interpretation. The “if the population was still stagnant so the tax base was shrinking” part.

I think what you’re saying is that you’re trying to turn your careless skimming of my post around on me so that you don’t have to admit your mistake.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Half-Axed

You left a whole element of what I wrote out of your interpretation. The “if the population was still stagnant so the tax base was shrinking” part.

I think what you’re saying is that you’re trying to turn your careless skimming of my post around on me so that you don’t have to admit your mistake.

Here is the entirety of what you posted:

Doubt it. I remember the Infirmary (can we stop calling it the New Infirmary now??) was too small already before it was even finished and had to be redesigned right away. Same thing with the Truro Hospital.

They need to stop thinking "replacement". Even if the population weren't quickly growing, it would be quickly aging and in need of more hospitals. Unfortunately it's hard to think "increase" when the tax base is shrinking.

The only thing I cut out was the first paragraph, which had nothing to do with what you are complaining about, and the next sentence which is equally irrelevant to your grievance.

[Half-Axed]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Here is the entirety of what you posted:

The only thing I cut out was the first paragraph, which had nothing to do with what you are complaining about, and the next sentence which is equally irrelevant to your grievance.

What grievance?

The grievance here is all yours. I’m just having a good laugh at your inability to simply say “oh yeah I see what you mean” and move along.

I was trying to respond with humour and carry on, but you are relentless. Big yikes.