[Halifax] Young & Windsor | 24-18-5 fl | ? m | Proposed

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by JustinFromMontebello

For anyone interested in reading more:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...et-council-nod

Great news. The process seems a bit much though.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by portapetey

That's exciting. I really hope so. This is a beautiful development and it will have a major impact in contributing to the developing shift in this part of town from a suburban to an urban feel.

How does that location have a 'suburban feel', whatever that is, and what is 'urban feel' ?
The lots abutting the development at North and Oxford are 33 feet wide. The lots at Beech and Elm are predominantly 33 feet; as are most residential lots on the peninsula.

[lawsond]

Originally Posted by Colin May

How does that location have a 'suburban feel', whatever that is, and what is 'urban feel' ?
The lots abutting the development at North and Oxford are 33 feet wide. The lots at Beech and Elm are predominantly 33 feet; as are most residential lots on the peninsula.

I would not call this area suburban. It is the rotten donut that encircles most cities...like Toronto or any American city. In Halifax, it is just much smaller. A perky downtown with certainly an urban feel, then a wasteland of car dealers and smelly half empty parking lots, fast food and strip malls. Then back to actual suburbs and relative prosperity. Urban feel is density and density makes for healthy urban cores with less traffic and more people with and without means if we can get some decent public housing off the ground. These buildings are perfect for that area and will in time move the urban core outward and also make some suburbanites take a second look at moving inward.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by lawsond

I would not call this area suburban. It is the rotten donut that encircles most cities...like Toronto or any American city. In Halifax, it is just much smaller. A perky downtown with certainly an urban feel, then a wasteland of car dealers and smelly half empty parking lots, fast food and strip malls. Then back to actual suburbs and relative prosperity. Urban feel is density and density makes for healthy urban cores with less traffic and more people with and without means if we can get some decent public housing off the ground. These buildings are perfect for that area and will in time move the urban core outward and also make some suburbanites take a second look at moving inward.

How does 6-8 storeys help bring more people, more families and how does it provide the children for the existing schools ? People planning a family don't want a condo, they want a home near a school.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by lawsond

I would not call this area suburban. It is the rotten donut that encircles most cities...like Toronto or any American city. In Halifax, it is just much smaller. A perky downtown with certainly an urban feel, then a wasteland of car dealers and smelly half empty parking lots, fast food and strip malls. Then back to actual suburbs and relative prosperity. Urban feel is density and density makes for healthy urban cores with less traffic and more people with and without means if we can get some decent public housing off the ground. These buildings are perfect for that area and will in time move the urban core outward and also make some suburbanites take a second look at moving inward.

This is exactly what I meant by "suburban feel" versus "urban" - good call on the "rotten donut" though - not urban, not suburban, just pavement. i'll adopt this way of phrasing it from now on. :-)

But yeah I mean the 1.5 to 2 story strip malls behind ugly parking lots (typical of what's adjacent to suburbs) versus more mixed use buildings (taller or not) snugged up closer to the sidewalk. Promotes living where you shop / shopping where you live, and promotes walkability rather than being a destination primarily for cars.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Colin May

How does 6-8 storeys help bring more people, more families and how does it provide the children for the existing schools ? People planning a family don't want a condo, they want a home near a school.

Families can live in apartments. Many do.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Colin May

How does 6-8 storeys help bring more people, more families and how does it provide the children for the existing schools ? People planning a family don't want a condo, they want a home near a school.

Which is why suburbia is so popular, though HRM doesn't want people to live there.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Colin May

How does that location have a 'suburban feel', whatever that is, and what is 'urban feel' ?
The lots abutting the development at North and Oxford are 33 feet wide. The lots at Beech and Elm are predominantly 33 feet; as are most residential lots on the peninsula.

Accurate or not, a car-centric form of wide streets bordered by expansive parking lots with big-box retail well-set-back is often viewed as "suburban." Perhaps lawsond's description of the rotten dougnut is more appropriate.

Are you suggesting that North/Oxford abuts Young/Windsor? I'm not sure I follow.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Colin May

How does 6-8 storeys help bring more people, more families and how does it provide the children for the existing schools ? People planning a family don't want a condo, they want a home near a school.

I think you're right in most cases... though, I think that with good schools, nearby parks and convenient shops, many families would be very happy to live "urban." It's a bit of a chicken and egg though... how do you get "good" schools without enough children? How do you get enough children without "good" schools?

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Families can live in apartments. Many do.

Bingo. While it is attractive for many to choose the suburban route, a huge proportion of the population raises families in condos or rentals and need adequate housing choices as well.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Bingo. While it is attractive for many to choose the suburban route, a huge proportion of the population raises families in condos or rentals and need adequate housing choices as well.

I mean, it remains to be seen if this development will include many units conducive to family living, but if we want more families in the core, we have to encourage family-friendly multi-unit projects. It's highly unlikely developers are going to start building detached houses on the peninsula, and the historic/legacy housing stock is pretty much full. So apartments (and townhouses, of course) it'll have to be if we want more families in the core.

(Of course, we have to build family-friendly buildings. In more expensive cities, we see situations where urban-dwellers are forced to go suburban when they start having kids because the family-friendly historic housing stock is too expensive, and new multi-unit developments include very few family-sized units. This is happening to a lesser degree here, and it will only get worse as the city centre becomes pricier.)

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Bingo. While it is attractive for many to choose the suburban route, a huge proportion of the population raises families in condos or rentals and need adequate housing choices as well.

I find it interesting when people purport to want Halifax to curb sprawl and become more like a "real city" (not my term) but then insist that detached single family homes in the suburbs (sprawl) are the only desirable option for families.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by portapetey

I find it interesting when people purport to want Halifax to curb sprawl and become more like a "real city" (not my term) but then insist that detached single family homes in the suburbs (sprawl) are the only desirable option for families.

Here are some detached, but very dense, homes being built as condos in the Hydrostone area: http://stanleystreethomes.ca/

In order to be appealing to families, I think schools are much more important than house vs high-rise condo.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Here are some detached, but very dense, homes being built as condos in the Hydrostone area: http://stanleystreethomes.ca/

In order to be appealing to families, I think schools are much more important than house vs high-rise condo.

Yeah, these are cool. I wish the market worked better for small-scale developers, so we had more of this kind of thing: townhouses, mid-rises, etc.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Here are some detached, but very dense, homes being built as condos in the Hydrostone area: http://stanleystreethomes.ca/

In order to be appealing to families, I think schools are much more important than house vs high-rise condo.

I find the following quote from the link above interesting, since this neighborhood was actually designed almost 100 years ago...

The Hydrostone is the best designed neighborhood in Canada over the last 100 years.

What is that saying about the state of urban planning??

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Here are some detached, but very dense, homes being built as condos in the Hydrostone area: http://stanleystreethomes.ca/

In order to be appealing to families, I think schools are much more important than house vs high-rise condo.

They should have spent more on the renderings because I cannot imagine they will end up looking that bad.

Those are some pretty tiny crackerboxes.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

They should have spent more on the renderings because I cannot imagine they will end up looking that bad.

Those are some pretty tiny crackerboxes.

They're between 1220 and 1400 sq. ft. I live in one of the original hydrostones, which is about 1280. Fine for a couple and a kid or two.

[lawsond]

Originally Posted by Colin May

How does 6-8 storeys help bring more people, more families and how does it provide the children for the existing schools ? People planning a family don't want a condo, they want a home near a school.

Becaauuuuuse it's ten more storeys of people. Families live in condos. And why is it the developers job to supply children for schools. Changing demographics means maybe a school shuts down. Or not. Halifax is a city and increasingly so. A dense urban area not a baby making machine like Lower Sackville. There will be families, singles, couples and who are we to judge who lives there and how many children they have?

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by lawsond

Becaauuuuuse it's ten more storeys of people. Families live in condos. And why is it the developers job to supply children for schools. Changing demographics means maybe a school shuts down. Or not. Halifax is a city and increasingly so. A dense urban area not a baby making machine like Lower Sackville. There will be families, singles, couples and who are we to judge who lives there and how many children they have?

It's true, families CAN live in high-rise construction. However, if only 1-2 bedroom units are built, it's awfully hard to pretend that many families will choose to. Certainly there are those who only have one child and don't want/need spare rooms for guests etc., but when that's available in a detached home, CLOSE (but-not-on) to the peninsula for less money, and near good schools, I think most would choose "more" space for the $$. The amenities are simply not good enough (yet) to make paying more per square foot very attractive for families.

What's the deal with families? They're part of healthy neighbourhoods. The peninsula should not be reserved for retirees and students - it's just not a good mix for a great place to live.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

What's the deal with families? They're part of healthy neighbourhoods. The peninsula should not be reserved for retirees and students - it's just not a good mix for a great place to live.

I have mentioned this before, and with the same caveat that it is a small sample size, but there has been a very interesting trend on my street (which is within the former LeMarchant-StThomas elementary school district). Rather than becoming an area for retirees and students, it has instead seen a decrease in retirees and students and a replacement by young families with elementary school age children. I know this is different from whatever trends might exist in multi-unit taller buildings, as opposed to the predominantly single family homes that mostly exist on my street, but all the same I have found it interesting. When I first arrived on the street it was 100% either empty nesters (recently so) and students. As houses came up for sale, one by one they have almost exclusively gone to families with young children. In some cases, these were even homes that had not necessarily been updated and people were willing to buy them and put significant money in just to be able to live in an area that was walkable to school, walkable to stores, walkable to restaurants, etc. The micro-trend on this block then has been away from retirees and toward families. In some cases the retirees may have gone to condos, but certainly in multiple cases they moved to a sub-urban area on the water.