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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 5:16 PM
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I've been to L.A. and it's bad, but it's not New York bad. When they were rebuilding the Kosciusko bridge, there was no worse car hell than the LIE/BQE interchange area.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by uaarkson View Post
I've been to L.A. and it's bad, but it's not New York bad. When they were rebuilding the Kosciusko bridge, there was no worse car hell than the LIE/BQE interchange area.
Ha, that's not even the worst in New York. But NYC is different because you often have the option of parking your car and hopping on a train.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by uaarkson View Post
I've been to L.A. and it's bad, but it's not New York bad. When they were rebuilding the Kosciusko bridge, there was no worse car hell than the LIE/BQE interchange area.
i mean i've been stuck in 100% stopped traffic in the holland tunnel at 2 AM after deplaning at EWR so that was basically like the opening scene to a disaster movie.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
I'd reckon it's either the 1-10 Beoadway Curve in Phoenix or the unholy junctions of I-10 & I-17 ("The Stack") and the junctions of I-10, AZ 51 and AZ 202 ("The Mini Stack") with the stretch of I-10 between the two that includes the Deck Park Tunnel.
A quick check of the counts in the City show it's the I-10 between "The Split" (I-10/I-17 southeast of downtown near the airport) and the Broadway Curve at 279,000 vehicles per day.

This was 2017 data. I'm sure 2018 or 2019 data is out there since they're continuous count stations, but I didn't really look.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Anyway, anybody can easily look this up, at least within the US. Google "[state] traffic volumes" and either a map or a spreadsheet will come right up.
thanks for the tip, it worked for illinois.

the highest i could find in chicago was a stretch of the dan ryan on the south side: 318,800 vehicles per day
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by uaarkson View Post
I've been to L.A. and it's bad, but it's not New York bad. When they were rebuilding the Kosciusko bridge, there was no worse car hell than the LIE/BQE interchange area.
The horror, the horror.

Yeah some fun times on the interchange. The BQE in general is horrible. Imagine the traffic that will result when they rebuild sections of it, in phases! More fun! Its going to be perpetual traffic for 20+ years.

LIC is another interesting case study or anywhere underneath an elevated train track. Damn columns make it hell. The whole city in general a nightmare driving wise. Just a cluster f at all times, and the funny thing, is that its only getting worse!

And when you see those signs that say "gridlock alert day, use mass transit", they bloody mean it!

At my old job, I'd leave from Con-Edison in Astoria (was a client of mine) at 2:30 pm and get back to Elizabeth NJ at 4:45/5pm some days. Just a shit show. And yes, I've at times have used the HOV lane to save myself an hour. Risky? Yeah, but f it, if they didn't see me, never happened.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 5:57 PM
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My company was a hop and a skip from the LIE, dead in the middle of Queens. God forbid I would have to go into the city during the day - that 7 miles to the tunnel could take 1-2 hours alone. Then on the way back out, you're sitting on cross-streets and dripping through intersections for another 1.5 hours. Absolutely awful. I lived around the corner from the shop - my coworkers lived as far out as Islip.

NYC needs bike commuting infrastructure that crosses the boroughs and the east river.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by uaarkson View Post
My company was a hop and a skip from the LIE, dead in the middle of Queens. God forbid I would have to go into the city during the day - that 7 miles to the tunnel could take 1-2 hours alone. Then on the way back out, you're sitting on cross-streets and dripping through intersections for another 1.5 hours. Absolutely awful. I lived around the corner from the shop - my coworkers lived as far out as Islip.

NYC needs bike commuting infrastructure that crosses the boroughs and the east river.
The Queensboro Bridge bikeway is being expanded, and the new Kosciuszko Bridge has a large bikeway.

But you're never gonna fix traffic on the LIE, even if you built 10 new subway lines. There will always be delivery and for-hire vehicles. I feel sorry for those who have no choice but sit in traffic.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 6:32 PM
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Honestly, the midtown tunnel should be for commercial traffic only.

This is where Chicago beats other cities, hard. They spent the time and money over a century ago to raise the entire core of the city 10+ ft. and the result today is a completely separate, sub-grade delivery system for every block, every major building. There's practically no delivery traffic on surface-streets in downtown Chicago. It's one of the most underrated engineering achievements in recent human history.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 6:36 PM
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Side note: sigh. If only Chicago was still this finely-grained.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 6:47 PM
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Folks need to remember that volume and congestion are not the same. You can have one high but the other low, depending on capacity and other factors.

Since everyone is talking about NY & LA, here's data for New York and California.

The highest I see scrolling around the NY map is the GW Bridge at 282,000. The BQE (since it was mentioned) is in the 100,000-150,000 range, which is pretty unremarkable in terms of volume for a metropolitan Interstate.

In LA, you have to look them up by route number so I can't say I've looked everywhere. But I looked at the 10, 101, 110, and 405. The highest I saw was the 10 @ Hoover Street where it hits 355,000.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by uaarkson View Post
This is where Chicago beats other cities, hard. They spent the time and money over a century ago to raise the entire core of the city 10+ ft. and the result today is a completely separate, sub-grade delivery system for every block, every major building. There's practically no delivery traffic on surface-streets in downtown Chicago. It's one of the most underrated engineering achievements in recent human history.
Are you referring to the narrow-gauge tunnels under Chicago? I don't think they're used for delivery anymore. They were mini freight-rail tunnels, I think.

Or are you referring to the multilevel streets? Those are along the river, and aren't specifically a "delivery system". Normal vehicles can use those streets. And I don't think they serve a significant % of downtown.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 6:50 PM
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I wonder what these numbers looked like before the automobile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Are you referring to the narrow-gauge tunnels under Chicago? I don't think they're used for delivery anymore. They were mini freight-rail tunnels, I think.

Or are you referring to the multilevel streets? Those are along the river, and aren't specifically a "delivery system". Normal vehicles can use them. And I don't think they serve a significant % of downtown.
I was exaggerating a little but yeah, I'm talking about the multi-level streets. There are quite a few skyscrapers along those streets with sub-grade freight entrances.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Folks need to remember that volume and congestion are not the same. You can have one high but the other low, depending on capacity and other factors.

Since everyone is talking about NY & LA, here's data for New York and California.

The highest I see scrolling around the NY map is the GW Bridge at 282,000. The BQE (since it was mentioned) is in the 100,000-150,000 range, which is pretty unremarkable in terms of volume for a metropolitan Interstate.

In LA, you have to look them up by route number so I can't say I've looked everywhere. But I looked at the 10, 101, 110, and 405. The highest I saw was the 10 @ Hoover Street where it hits 355,000.
Yeah, NYC roads won't rank very high because the city and state rightly recognized, long ago, that adding lanes wouldn't fix congestion. The BQE is, on average, something like 2-3 times its designed capacity. But it was only built to carry like 40-50K cars per day.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yeah, NYC roads won't rank very high because the city and state rightly recognized, long ago, that adding lanes wouldn't fix congestion. The BQE is, on average, something like 2-3 times its designed capacity. But it was only built to carry like 40-50K cars per day.
The only really "huge freeway" in the region is the NJ Turnpike. That's the only one that looks like something in Southern CA. Most of the region's highways are 2 or 3 lanes, and limited or no shoulders.

Some, like the Merritt or Henry Hudson, are not even really "freeways". I don't know how to classify stuff like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8860...7i16384!8i8192
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The only really "huge freeway" in the region is the NJ Turnpike. That's the only one that looks like something in Southern CA. Most of the region's highways are 2 or 3 lanes, and limited or no shoulders.

Some, like the Merritt or Henry Hudson, are not even really "freeways". I don't know how to classify stuff like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8860...7i16384!8i8192
That, my friend, is a parkway.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The only really "huge freeway" in the region is the NJ Turnpike. That's the only one that looks like something in Southern CA. Most of the region's highways are 2 or 3 lanes, and limited or no shoulders.

Some, like the Merritt or Henry Hudson, are not even really "freeways". I don't know how to classify stuff like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8860...7i16384!8i8192
Yeah, the drives and parkways category in NYC is far more distinct than other places. The Henry Hudson and Jackie Robinson are definitely in that gray space between large road and freeway. But as soon as you get outside of NYC, to Long Island or upstate, parkway just means freeway like it does everywhere else.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 8:10 PM
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The highest in Birmingham (and all of Alabama) is at a point on I-59/20 on its downtown viaduct (indicated by the arrow). The viaduct is current being reconstructed and has been demolished. They're a bit less than 2/3 finished. Should be finished in early 2020.

Traffic count at this location is: 155,620 per day

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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yeah, the drives and parkways category in NYC is far more distinct than other places. The Henry Hudson and Jackie Robinson are definitely in that gray space between large road and freeway. But as soon as you get outside of NYC, to Long Island or upstate, parkway just means freeway like it does everywhere else.
Eh, in DC "parkway" means "more than an arterial but less than a freeway" too.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2019, 8:42 PM
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in chicago, a "parkway" is the thin strip of grass between the street curb and the sidewalk found on nearly every single residential street in the city, and most burbs as well. i believe they are often called "tree lawns" or "curb lawns" in other locales.


source: me
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