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  #921  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 9:49 PM
Rooster slayer Rooster slayer is offline
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This could be Chicago's New York Amazon moment...losing Lucas was bad, this would be completely jaw dropping.
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  #922  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 9:51 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by Rooster slayer View Post
This could be Chicago's New York Amazon moment...losing Lucas was bad, this would be completely jaw dropping.
Ridiculous. It's mind boggling how stupid this City can be at times.
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  #923  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 10:00 PM
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Obama isn't going to pull out of Chicago, that I'm fairly confident about.
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  #924  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 10:11 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Ridiculous. It's mind boggling how stupid this City can be at times.
this has nothing to do with "the city". this has to do with a lawsuit thats been allowed to proceed. everyone knew there was the potential for this to happen from day 1, but the naysayers all said that rahm would just magically ram it through. hes not above the court system though. all of this could have been so easily avoided by picking a different site.
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  #925  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 10:12 PM
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It's still completely ridiculous and indefensible to state that the city is completely out of developable land and we are down to building in the parks or nothing gets built.

City's full folks.
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  #926  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 10:26 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
this has nothing to do with "the city". this has to do with a lawsuit thats been allowed to proceed. everyone knew there was the potential for this to happen from day 1, but the naysayers all said that rahm would just magically ram it through. hes not above the court system though. all of this could have been so easily avoided by picking a different site.
Exactly
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  #927  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 10:32 PM
sammyg sammyg is offline
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Originally Posted by aaron38 View Post
It's still completely ridiculous and indefensible to state that the city is completely out of developable land and we are down to building in the parks or nothing gets built.

City's full folks.
Whatever happened to all the land across the street from Washinton Park that U.Chicago bought in anticipation of the Library being built in Washington Park?
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  #928  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2019, 10:54 PM
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Oprah told the rest of the site selection committee that important museums were on the lakefront.
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  #929  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 2:56 AM
Halsted & Villagio Halsted & Villagio is offline
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Various forum members appear to be taking way too much joy in this decision for my liking. The bottom line is putting up roadblocks to one of the most important developments to ever occur on the Southside is asinine. As long as the Southside is the way that it is, dare I say, this city will NEVER be all that it can be. We have already lost Amazon because of the "perceived" crime problem (that issue being chief among others of course), and there is no telling how many countless old/new residents and old/new businesses that we are losing because of the "crime" problem that dogs Chicago vis-a-vis the Southside.

New York did not become the NY that we now know it to be today until it cleaned up/lowered crime in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Harlem. The Southside is that area for us today. Los Angeles did not become the LA we know it to be today, until it cleaned up South Central. Hell, Paris would not be Paris if it had a whole section of its city with a major crime problem. These are just random examples but you get my point. Recognize that any joy you are feeling right now comes across as extremely short sighted and yes, partisan and is likely rooted in the "us" versus "them" mentality that is at the very heart of the problem with Chicago today. That "us" versus "them" mentality is deeply rooted within Chicago/rooted in racism (for some)... that mentality has led to racial redlining, disinvestment and the ridiculous segregation we still see today... and it is that very mentality that has stoked fires/raised resentment and hostilities, and yes, spurred violence.

This is just not some city... any city... this is Chicago! A place with IT ALL. We have EVERYTHING here to maintain and grow our status as a player on the world stage. The only thing holding us back is us. Period. The choice -- keep an old run down park that is rarely used by Whites... a park that has already been changed and modified many times over... out of some archaic notion of preserving that which is already UNpreserved. Or give the Obama's.... and yes, the dreaded Oprah (I noticed how someone here very neatly dropped Oprah into this discussion to further division)... give them that which they want and at least give the library a chance of spurring turnaround on the Southside. Which choice has the better chance of changing fortunes on the Southside? Of course you know which one does. To be sure, the Obama Library is no magic elixir or cure-all for what ails the Southside, but it is damn sure better than the nothing we are getting right now. It at least offers hope. And hope my friends, is a dynamic that pays incalculable dividends.

That said, I am still confident that this happens…. in Jackson Park. I think "reason" prevails in the end. But of course I could be wrong. Time will tell.

Last edited by Halsted & Villagio; Feb 20, 2019 at 12:08 PM.
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  #930  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 3:06 AM
Chi-Sky21 Chi-Sky21 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Oprah told the rest of the site selection committee that important museums were on the lakefront.
she IS right. but whatever, just move it to lincoln yards or something and screw the southside all together....see what happens then.
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  #931  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 1:12 PM
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it'll get built and probably right there

anyway, fantasy locations include, for me, capping the grant park rail yard near roosevelt and putting it there inside millennium park II
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  #932  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 2:20 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio View Post
Various forum members appear to be taking way too much joy in this decision for my liking. The bottom line is putting up roadblocks to one of the most important developments to ever occur on the Southside is asinine. As long as the Southside is the way that it is, dare I say, this city will NEVER be all that it can be. We have already lost Amazon because of the "perceived" crime problem (that issue being chief among others of course), and there is no telling how many countless old/new residents and old/new businesses that we are losing because of the "crime" problem that dogs Chicago vis-a-vis the Southside.

New York did not become the NY that we now know it to be today until it cleaned up/lowered crime in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Harlem. The Southside is that area for us today. Los Angeles did not become the LA we know it to be today, until it cleaned up South Central. Hell, Paris would not be Paris if it had a whole section of its city with a major crime problem. These are just random examples but you get my point. Recognize that any joy you are feeling right now comes across as extremely short sighted and yes, partisan and is likely rooted in the "us" versus "them" mentality that is at the very heart of the problem with Chicago today. That "us" versus "them" mentality is deeply rooted within Chicago/rooted in racism (for some)... that mentality has led to racial redlining, disinvestment and the ridiculous segregation we still see today... and it is that very mentality that has stoked fires/raised resentment and hostilities, and yes, spurred violence.

This is just not some city... any city... this is Chicago! A place with IT ALL. We have EVERYTHING here to maintain and grow our status as a player on the world stage. The only thing holding us back is us. Period. The choice -- keep an old run down park that is rarely used by Whites... a park that has already been changed and modified many times over... out of some archaic notion of preserving that which is already UNpreserved. Or give the Obama's.... and yes, the dreaded Oprah (I noticed how someone here very neatly dropped Oprah into this discussion to further division)... give them that which they want and at least give the library a chance of spurring turnaround on the Southside. Which choice has the better chance of changing fortunes on the Southside? Of course you know which one does. To be sure, the Obama Library is no magic elixir or cure-all for what ails the Southside, but it is damn sure better than the nothing we are getting right now. It at least offers hope. And hope my friends, is a dynamic that pays incalculable dividends.

That said, I am still confident that this happens…. in Jackson Park. I think "reason" prevails in the end. But of course I could be wrong. Time will tell.
Nobody disputes that, but the Obama Museum is not what will change this.

Immigration to these areas will. We need more people of various backgrounds making these areas their home, and that doesn’t have to mean gentrification (although property values rising from $25k for a home is a good thing)
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  #933  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 3:52 PM
pilsenarch pilsenarch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio View Post
Various forum members appear to be taking way too much joy in this decision for my liking. The bottom line is putting up roadblocks to one of the most important developments to ever occur on the Southside is asinine. As long as the Southside is the way that it is, dare I say, this city will NEVER be all that it can be. We have already lost Amazon because of the "perceived" crime problem (that issue being chief among others of course), and there is no telling how many countless old/new residents and old/new businesses that we are losing because of the "crime" problem that dogs Chicago vis-a-vis the Southside.

New York did not become the NY that we now know it to be today until it cleaned up/lowered crime in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Harlem. The Southside is that area for us today. Los Angeles did not become the LA we know it to be today, until it cleaned up South Central. Hell, Paris would not be Paris if it had a whole section of its city with a major crime problem. These are just random examples but you get my point. Recognize that any joy you are feeling right now comes across as extremely short sighted and yes, partisan and is likely rooted in the "us" versus "them" mentality that is at the very heart of the problem with Chicago today. That "us" versus "them" mentality is deeply rooted within Chicago/rooted in racism (for some)... that mentality has led to racial redlining, disinvestment and the ridiculous segregation we still see today... and it is that very mentality that has stoked fires/raised resentment and hostilities, and yes, spurred violence.

This is just not some city... any city... this is Chicago! A place with IT ALL. We have EVERYTHING here to maintain and grow our status as a player on the world stage. The only thing holding us back is us. Period. The choice -- keep an old run down park that is rarely used by Whites... a park that has already been changed and modified many times over... out of some archaic notion of preserving that which is already UNpreserved. Or give the Obama's.... and yes, the dreaded Oprah (I noticed how someone here very neatly dropped Oprah into this discussion to further division)... give them that which they want and at least give the library a chance of spurring turnaround on the Southside. Which choice has the better chance of changing fortunes on the Southside? Of course you know which one does. To be sure, the Obama Library is no magic elixir or cure-all for what ails the Southside, but it is damn sure better than the nothing we are getting right now. It at least offers hope. And hope my friends, is a dynamic that pays incalculable dividends.

That said, I am still confident that this happens…. in Jackson Park. I think "reason" prevails in the end. But of course I could be wrong. Time will tell.
Couldn't agree more...
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  #934  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 5:51 PM
chrisvfr800i chrisvfr800i is offline
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Originally Posted by Rooster slayer View Post
This could be Chicago's New York Amazon moment...losing Lucas was bad, this would be completely jaw dropping.
I find it odd that the same voices that decried the Amazon/NYC deal don't also decry this deal. Honestly they should decry it much more, as while Amazon was just getting a break on future taxes, Obama is getting free land and infrastructure for a vanity project.
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  #935  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 6:57 PM
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Steely Dan Steely Dan is online now
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the whole "it has to go in a park" BS is such nonsense given all of the available vacant and relatively inexpensive land found all over the southside.

for example, take this 5 acre parcel at garfield and MLK: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7942.../data=!3m1!1e3

it directly overlooks washington park and is only steps from a greenline stop.

it would make infinitely more sense to just tell the obama foundation to buy that land and put the museum and library there.

5 acres should be more than enough land to accommodate what they want to do.

and actually placing it in the community (as opposed to an isolated park site) would be an immensely more logical way to honor the former community organizer. i don't get how/why obama can't/won't see that.
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  #936  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisvfr800i View Post
….Obama is getting free land and infrastructure for a vanity project.
That is just so stupid. A presidential library is not a "vanity project".
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 20, 2019 at 8:05 PM.
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  #937  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 8:16 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
That is just so stupid. A presidential library is not a "vanity project".
its not a library though. its essentially the HQ for the Obama Foundation, a private entity.


my feelings are mixed on the proposal itself, and the site in particular.

i still dont know why U of C ever felt this was "theirs" to offer up in the first place. pretty ironic they didnt offer any of their own private plots that have been landbanked.

Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 21, 2019 at 3:06 PM.
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  #938  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 8:50 PM
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nomarandlee nomarandlee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio View Post
Various forum members appear to be taking way too much joy in this decision for my liking. The bottom line is putting up roadblocks to one of the most important developments to ever occur on the Southside is asinine. .
Nobody is taking joy here. I think everyone here wants to see the library built and all the more in quick fashion. I think most would love to see it on the south side for a variety of reasons.

Frankly what I consider assinine is that some expect projects they are personally in favor of to be rubber-stamped for expediency or because they want to poo-poo any legitimate real concerns about graft, public process, and tax expenditures. The $200 million to reorient streets is no small subsidy.

Quote:
Recognize that any joy you are feeling right now comes across as extremely short sighted and yes, partisan and is likely rooted in the "us" versus "them" mentality that is at the very heart of the problem with Chicago today. That "us" versus "them" mentality is deeply rooted within Chicago/rooted in racism (for some)... that mentality has led to racial redlining, disinvestment and the ridiculous segregation we still see today... and it is that very mentality that has stoked fires/raised resentment and hostilities, and yes, spurred violence.
I hate to be presumptuous but I think it far to say that on this forum that almost everyone here would much rather see an Obama Library on the south side than say a Trump Library. You are frankly way out of freaking bounds to claim that hesitation or objections to the Jackson Park locations are due to partisan let alone racial hostility. There are very valid reasons to be skeptical of setting the precedent of appropriating the heart of one of our few major public parks to the powerful well-connected, no matter how well liked that entity is in polls or by the majority.
Quote:
The choice -- keep an old run down park that is rarely used by Whites... a park that has already been changed and modified many times over... out of some archaic notion of preserving that which is already UNpreserved.
The park could use some love of course but since when is pouring cement and steel been confused with green space. The two are natural anthemic to each other. Don't tell us you are burning the village to save it and don't tell us you are improving the park by cutting into and making it a non-park.

And what demographic lives by or uses it is not really what the issue is or should be. You can try to make it about race if you want to dirty the issue up and polarize it away from principles and precedent but there completely valid reasons to be for/against the OBL in Jackson Park that aren't the least bit race related.
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  #939  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 9:56 PM
Halsted & Villagio Halsted & Villagio is offline
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
That is just so stupid. A presidential library is not a "vanity project".
Great post. The comment by the poster you addressed gives you a glimpse into whats really at the bottom of much of the pushback. For many, it is more about jealousy/resentment/envy towards Obama than it is about any else... and the comment that you adeptly addressed really illustrates that.

Obama -- his legacy is intact. With or without the Jackson Park location I am pretty sure that Barack Obama's life will be just fine. You are not getting him back or hurting him by denying him that location. The guy has lived a charmed life and this whole library thing is not going to change that one iota.

I will say that the Woodlawn real estate market is hot with development in anticipation of the library. Per Steely's argument, I don't believe changing the location will effect that very much. The area is hot and as long there is not a complete pullout things should still be ok regardless of where it goes on the Southeast side.

I just think we should be honest about the whole thing. Many here don't give a flying flip about Jackson Park, have rarely set foot in that park and can't help but recognize that Olmsted's vision was modified and butchered many times over long ago. For many, this is about somehow trying to get back at Obama... trying to stick it to him somehow (ridiculous!)... as evidenced by the poster who preposterously called a Presidential Library a "vanity project".

There is an unspoken undercurrent to whats going on here. Not by all, but by many. For instance, I know Steely's comment was a comment that was fair and should be taken at face value. In fact, his post makes a lot of sense... except that I believe Jackson Park offers the library the best possible location for maximum impact -- something I am in favor of. Reasonable minds can differ on this. But I know his comment came from a good place. Others have made good points too... but sadly, with quite a few.... there is that ugly undercurrent.

Either way, as long as it goes in the general vicinity of the Southeast side, I am a happy camper. I have multiple investments in that general area and I plan to invest even more in the future.
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  #940  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 10:39 PM
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Buckman821 Buckman821 is offline
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^Good grief. Get off your high horse.

To assume that opposition to this project can only be due to Obama resentment is nothing short of insane.

This entire concept was flawed from the beginning.

Oh - and I've been to Jackson Park many times and I would hate to see it gifted over to a private entity where it won't ever engage with what will hopefully one day be vibrant urban fabric.
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