Federal Government & Politics - Page 60

Dengler Avenue · #**1181** Posted **Dec 15, 2018, 8:10 PM**

Woah strong language. What monstrosity did she commit??

Dengler Avenue · #**1182** Posted **Dec 15, 2018, 8:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelebes

All, right folks, let's bring this thread on-topic.

Should one of us start a new thread on Canadian Foreign Policy/Affair?

MonctonRad · #**1183** Posted **Dec 15, 2018, 8:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

Damn, Mélanie Joly cancelled planned China trip. Looks like we won't be able to get rid of her that way :p

(The Chinese would've likely done us all the favor of locking her up and throwing away the key)

Oh I don't know lio, I think she's cute......

lio45 · #**1184** Posted **Dec 15, 2018, 10:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Oh I don't know lio, I think she's cute......

The problem isn't her looks. I'd say she's as dumb as a bag of rocks but that would be insulting to rocks.

Come to think of it, the reason Justin likely keeps her around is that it makes him look like a rocket scientist by comparison. No kidding.

lio45 · #**1185** Posted **Dec 15, 2018, 10:59 PM**

These cartoons aren't exaggerating, extreme stupidity and nonsense is what she's known for...

(can you tell I like cartoons - and so do you, I know you sometimes post works from that talented cartoonist of the Moncton Times or whatever the name of the paper is)

lio45 · #**1186** Posted **Dec 15, 2018, 11:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Should one of us start a new thread on Canadian Foreign Policy/Affair?

Foreign Affairs (i.e. this China business) seems on topic for this thread, but that's just me.

headhorse · #**1187** Posted **Dec 16, 2018, 1:14 AM**

the only posts that should have been deleted were the ones where whatnext went off on some facist race science bit...

Dr Awesomesauce · #**1188** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 12:31 AM**

^Well, if we're going to go down that road, how about anything that suggests Communism is a viable mode of being be deleted: gulags; re-education; the slaughter of the educated, the competent, the successful; the long-term, bloody experiments carried out in Russia and its satellites, China, Vietnam and Cambodia, etc. These things cannot be separated from Communist ideology.

Even though I'm pretty sure you're a troll ie that you don't really believe the nonsense you spout, I find myself being triggered by your one-track, delusional, ideological beliefs. So a job well done then...

vid · #**1189** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 1:05 AM**

Can you tell me where in the literature of communism does it lay out the necessity for gulags, slaughter, famine, and experimentation?

The communism practiced by dictators is not what communism is on paper, the two get conflated. But at the same time, capitalism is supposed to work for the greater good and discourage monopoly and we've all seen how that works out. Forestry companies in my region have poisoned hundreds with mercury and the government pays the price even though the private sector did it! Imagine burning down your neighbours house, and you don't get punished as the government gives him a new one 30 years later. #Capitalism

acottawa · #**1190** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 1:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

Can you tell me where in the literature of communism does it lay out the necessity for gulags, slaughter, famine, and experimentation?

The communism practiced by dictators is not what communism is on paper, the two get conflated. But at the same time, capitalism is supposed to work for the greater good and discourage monopoly and we've all seen how that works out. Forestry companies in my region have poisoned hundreds with mercury and the government pays the price even though the private sector did it! Imagine burning down your neighbours house, and you don't get punished as the government gives him a new one 30 years later. #Capitalism

From the Wikipedia

Karl Marx did not write much about the nature of the dictatorship of the proletariat, with his published works instead largely focusing on analysing and criticising capitalist society. In 1848, he and Engels wrote in The Communist Manifesto that "their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions".[8] In the same year, commenting on revolution in Vienna he again highlighted the role of the violence, saying that "there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror".[9]

vid · #**1191** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 1:21 AM**

And that is clearly a much faster and more effective way than how capitalism achieves the same end, which is to deprive people while telling them they're free. Sure, the workers in the gulag didn't have as much freedom at the end of the day as those forced to hold their piss for 8 hours at Amazon's warehouse, but at least they had the dignity of working towards the great goal of the people's soviet.

Tell me again how wonderful it is that massive, profitable corporations that evade paying billions in taxes are doing more than their share for society when they donate a fraction of that amount to the homeless population they helped create. I love that story.

Dr Awesomesauce · #**1192** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 1:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

Can you tell me where in the literature of communism does it lay out the necessity for gulags, slaughter, famine, and experimentation?

The communism practiced by dictators is not what communism is on paper, the two get conflated. But at the same time, capitalism is supposed to work for the greater good and discourage monopoly and we've all seen how that works out. Forestry companies in my region have poisoned hundreds with mercury and the government pays the price even though the private sector did it! Imagine burning down your neighbours house, and you don't get punished as the government gives him a new one 30 years later. #Capitalism

Can you cite the case of a Communist experiment that didn't result in a bloodbath? And not just in the early days, which one might argue is unavoidable, but ongoing over years, decades. Of course you can't. So I guess you're saying that you could do it better? Perhaps you could but you wouldn't last - if you are in any way a good person, your reign would be measured in days, not years, before the real revolutionaries took over.

Capitalism isn't perfect but it is something that can be tweaked, as it should be. Corporatism and government interference in that area is gross. But at least our system allows for adjustment, slow though it may be, and also criticism of said system. Oh yeah, and the relative wealth and luxury that so many of us enjoy - let's not forget about that!

vid · #**1193** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 5:48 AM**

I was going to say "Kibbutzes" but Israel is pretty much a fascist state these days, and they're too small a scale anyway. They're basically just co-operative farms/communes.

But is there any purely capitalist society that doesn't have oppression and poverty? No to that as well. Which side of the coin someone is on depends on how useful the super rich in our society find them at any given moment.

acottawa · #**1194** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 6:27 AM**

There are no utopias, but liberal-capitalist societies tend to have much lower rates of unnatural deaths than totalitarian, authoritarian or hunter-gatherer type societies and much lower rates of absolute poverty (although there might be more relative poverty).

kwoldtimer · #**1195** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 4:25 PM**

John Doyle's piece in today's G&M is on the ten most irritating Canadians of 2018 (TV-related). At #5 is Andrew Scheer, with just the four word comment "Elf on the Shelf".

I'm chuckling and praying that I can get this image out of my head before the next election.

CityTech · #**1196** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 4:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

I was going to say "Kibbutzes" but Israel is pretty much a fascist state these days, and they're too small a scale anyway. They're basically just co-operative farms/communes.

But is there any purely capitalist society that doesn't have oppression and poverty? No to that as well. Which side of the coin someone is on depends on how useful the super rich in our society find them at any given moment.

Israel as it was in the first 30 years of its existence was arguably the closest humanity has ever gotten to a successful socialist state.

wave46 · #**1197** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

I was going to say "Kibbutzes" but Israel is pretty much a fascist state these days, and they're too small a scale anyway. They're basically just co-operative farms/communes.

But is there any purely capitalist society that doesn't have oppression and poverty? No to that as well. Which side of the coin someone is on depends on how useful the super rich in our society find them at any given moment.

That's why a mixed-market economy tends to have the best outcomes.

What degree of 'mixed-market' depends on the demands of the electorate of each country.

Acajack · #**1198** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 6:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Oh I don't know lio, I think she's cute......

I can confirm she's the real deal up close too. And a pretty nice person too.

But definitely a disappointment for Trudeau and the Liberals who expected her to be more of a Cabinet heavyweight. She ain't no Sheila Copps.

I am one person removed from people who worked with her every day, and apparently she has a lot of trouble taking advice and always goes with her hunches.

Sadly for her, in addition to not being a Sheila Copps, she's no Jean Chrétien either when it comes to political instincts. (Jean Chrétien was famous for rarely following advice and always going with his gut, and being right 90% of the time.)

Acajack · #**1199** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 6:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

These cartoons aren't exaggerating, extreme stupidity and nonsense is what she's known for...

(can you tell I like cartoons - and so do you, I know you sometimes post works from that talented cartoonist of the Moncton Times or whatever the name of the paper is)

"Mélangée Jolie"

kwoldtimer · #**1200** Posted **Dec 17, 2018, 10:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I can confirm she's the real deal up close too. And a pretty nice person too.

But definitely a disappointment for Trudeau and the Liberals who expected her to be more of a Cabinet heavyweight. She ain't no Sheila Copps.

I am one person removed from people who worked with her every day, and apparently she has a lot of trouble taking advice and always goes with her hunches.

Sadly for her, in addition to not being a Sheila Copps, she's no Jean Chrétien either when it comes to political instincts. (Jean Chrétien was famous for rarely following advice and always going with his gut, and being right 90% of the time.)

She was #3 on John Doyle's "irritating" list today ("bafflegarb").