Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Blah_Amazing]

Originally Posted by SL,UT

It looks like they are going to be building condos on two lots off 930-31 Washington Street in Central Ninth area. There is some minor prep work going on for demo work. Can't find any renderings of what will be going up there. Anyone know??? They have also started foundation work for another condo unit next door, but I can't seem to find any renderings for that project either.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is that large multifamily project the SLC Planning Commission just raised the height limit for on the south side of 900 South between 200 West Street to Washington Street.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

How would you accomplish that without knocking down the Poplar Street Pub?

Is there any reason they simply couldn't extend it from the alley on the north side? It's a bit narrow, but not too narrow. Frankly I would be fine with not allowing automobile access through this section and just opening it up as a pedestrian pathway. In fact I think that would be a benefit to the area.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7639...7i13312!8i6656

Originally Posted by airhero

I think losing Poplar Street Pub would be unfortunate but I'm sure they could movie into a space nearby, with all the retail that's supposed to go up in the area. Maybe this is an ignorant question, but is there anything particularly special about the building that's worth saving? I've never particularly liked how it's set so far back from the street.

The building itself, no, but I think they use the space very well. It's one of my favorite bars in the city, and it's a great location. I'm sure they could move if necessary, but I don't think they could find as good of a space.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Comrade

It's possible they're talking about just the row houses behind the apartments, which would still be sad to lose but not nearly as significant as the actual apartments facing Broadway.

Fun personal fact: My great-grandma, who was born in Ireland and emigrated to Utah in the early 1900s, lived in Delmar Court up until her death.

Those building have been deteriorating for years. They are probably fire traps. It would be nice if they could completely gut the place, and restore the exterior.... but it would probably cost way more then tearing it down and starting over. about the only way it would be feasible is if it were converted in to condos in the 700K plus range... I think those apartments have inevitably been on the chopping block for a long time.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Those building have been deteriorating for years. They are probably fire traps. It would be nice if they could completely gut the place, and restore the exterior.... but it would probably cost way more then tearing it down and starting over. about the only way it would be feasible is if it were converted in to condos in the 700K plus range... I think those apartments have inevitably been on the chopping block for a long time.

Owners of developments they want to tear down purposely turn older buildings into fire traps so they have an excuse to knock them down. We need to inspect older buildings and fine owners if they don't maintain them.

[SL,UT]

Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing

I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is that large multifamily project the SLC Planning Commission just raised the height limit for on the south side of 900 South between 200 West Street to Washington Street.

That project faces Harvey Milk Blvd. and I think it is replacing the old dry cleaners and chuckles bar. Kudos for the city council for upping the height!! There is some activity off Washington St. directly south of that development. They look like they are going to be small scale development, perhaps some micro units which is perfect for the central ninth area.

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by Marvland

I like pipe-dreams as much as you guys but Poplar is going nowhere. They re just wrapping up a multi million dollar expansion not to mention also eminent domain cannot be used in this fashion. As in illegal as per state statue in response to the Kelo vs City of New London. Also, eminent domaine sucks and is evil and has no legitimate pace in development assemblage.

I’m sure we could all come up with a compromise. Perhaps the street can become a cul de sac right behind the pub, connecting to both 200 west and 200 south via the drive ways. But eventually, that building may fall, and Pierpont Ave can connect all the way through the block.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Stenar

Owners of developments they want to tear down purposely turn older buildings into fire traps so they have an excuse to knock them down. We need to inspect older buildings and fine owners if they don't maintain them.

That is exactly what they and others do. They become slum lords because they know those at the lowest rung of the economic latter will put up with unsafe and unsanitary conditions and the landowners can bank the large margins then claim upgrading/remodeling is unreasonable because the condition is so bad. They should have been inspected many time since the 60's and threaten with condemnation if they were/ are that bad. I wonder if Vasilios pulled strings to prevent that over the years.

[Blah_Amazing]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

That is exactly what they and others do. They become slum lords because they know those at the lowest rung of the economic latter will put up with unsafe and unsanitary conditions and the landowners can bank the large margins then claim upgrading/remodeling is unreasonable because the condition is so bad. They should have been inspected many time since the 60's and threaten with condemnation if they were/ are that bad. I wonder if Vasilios pulled strings to prevent that over the years.

I honestly doubt the Holy Trinity Church set out to become 'slum lords.' That, to me, sounds like an outrageous lie. It is likely that, as with churches across the entire US, their funds dried up and so they put off renovating, updating, and maintaining their buildings and facilities, hoping things would improve. However, they didn't, and with every passing year the costs of maintenance and the cost of properly updating the buildings likely continued to skyrocket. As I mentioned before, their own church building has clearly not received the maintenance it deserves, let alone the apartments under their management. I suspect Holy Trinity sees the selling/ handing over control of these buildings to the developer for demolition as the only way they can raise the funds they need to properly maintain their church building and ensure at least that survives for future generations. They know they can't pay for the restoration, (what the other developers had suggested) as that would require millions of dollars they clearly do not have.
Honestly, if you have millions of dollars to donate to save these buildings, or are willing to go out and raise that amount to save these buildings, that's great. But the difficulty in finding donors for the Utah Theater should tell you how hard it is to achieve that. It is my guess that Holy Trinity has likely exhausted all of these options spanning decades, as this proposal comes off (at least to me) as what they perceive as their last hope.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by Blah_Amazing

I honestly doubt the Holy Trinity Church set out to become 'slum lords.' That, to me, sounds like an outrageous lie. It is likely that, as with churches across the entire US, their funds dried up and so they put off renovating, updating, and maintaining their buildings and facilities, hoping things would improve. However, they didn't, and with every passing year the costs of maintenance and the cost of properly updating the buildings likely continued to skyrocket. As I mentioned before, their own church building has clearly not received the maintenance it deserves, let alone the apartments under their management. I suspect Holy Trinity sees the selling/ handing over control of these buildings to the developer for demolition as the only way they can raise the funds they need to properly maintain their church building and ensure at least that survives for future generations. They know they can't pay for the restoration, (what the other developers had suggested) as that would require millions of dollars they clearly do not have.
Honestly, if you have millions of dollars to donate to save these buildings, or are willing to go out and raise that amount to save these buildings, that's great. But the difficulty in finding donors for the Utah Theater should tell you how hard it is to achieve that. It is my guess that Holy Trinity has likely exhausted all of these options spanning decades, as this proposal comes off (at least to me) as what they perceive as their last hope.

You are right that I should not jump to conclusions on the circumstances that lead to their current condition. With that said, I can say with 100% confidence they have rented their units for decades without putting meaningful money into them. Again, if they are in as bad condition as I have heard then they should have sold off the the land years ago. Whatever the reason, they have allowed people to occupy them while collecting rent revenue. My guess is they chose the slum lord route because that gave them maximum return which supplemented their loss of donations from their patrons.

[Blah_Amazing]

Another project has popped up on the Lowe Property Group website called NAC. This project is directly across the street (500 South) from Lowe Property Group's proposed A&Z project.

The description states, "The 8.53 acre NAC site is a full city block in Downtown SLC, from 300 to 400 W and 500 to 600 E (Note: typo - supposed to say 600 S.). Located between the main entrance and exit boulevards to the City, this site is the next great expansion piece of Downtown. The project will consist of Class A multifamily units and creative office, retail, and industrial space. The project is located in a qualified 'opportunity zone'."

NAC Project site - Lowe Property Group.

NAC Project - Lowe Property Group. If you look in the top left corner you can see the west side of the other Lowe Property Group proposed project 'A&Z,' which we discussed a couple weeks ago. Here is A&Z's property's description: "The 3.3 acre A&Z site has full street frontage along 500 South, the main avenue from downtown Salt Lake City, Utah, to I-15, and will consist of Class A multifamily units and creative office / mixed use space. The project is located in a qualified 'opportunity zone'."

NAC Project - Lowe Property Group. If you look in the top right corner, you can see the east side of the other Lowe Property Group proposed project 'A&Z.'

NAC Project - Lowe Property Group.

A&Z Project and NAC Project sites - Lowe Property Group.

If both of these projects get built, we are looking at almost 12 acres of new development.

[airhero]

What is Lowe doing? They've suddenly proposed a million things in Salt Lake the last year or so. Do they have some other motive in all this? Or do they actually intend to develop all of these? I'm thinking slow down. Build Dixon Place first, then move on to 6th and Main, if things are still looking good move onto other things. I don't really know how developers work, but isn't it odd that Lowe, who has mostly developed smaller developments in the suburbs, is suddenly buying up tons of acreage all around SLC and proposing new developments on all of it?

They did get their CBSDR approved for Dixon Place and submitted a building permit application for it last week so seems to be moving forward. 6th and Main was also approved last month by the planning commission. We'll see...but until I see actual construction I will be skeptical. Really rooting for them though.

[ThePusherMan]

Looks like they are planning on some nice mid block walkways and what looks like a mid block street. Hope these projects move forward.

[Makid]

With a planned Trax extension along 4th West, I would like to see the City maybe push for higher densities along 4th West.

While the Trax line may be 20 years out currently, the increased density could help spur it along as the Impact Fees could possibly be used to help pay for the transit upgrades. Combined with city funds, the City may be able to fund the extension, currently estimated at $80 Million.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

That is exactly what they and others do. They become slum lords because they know those at the lowest rung of the economic latter will put up with unsafe and unsanitary conditions and the landowners can bank the large margins then claim upgrading/remodeling is unreasonable because the condition is so bad. They should have been inspected many time since the 60's and threaten with condemnation if they were/ are that bad. I wonder if Vasilios pulled strings to prevent that over the years.

This recently happened to an older apartment building by the County Building on 2100 South - forcing people out on the streets after the fire marshal deemed the building unsafe. It was really sad. I hope they can rehabilitate the building because it's a pretty cool older residential complex.

[Blah_Amazing]

Did any of you see this article?: https://www.multihousingnews.com/pos...m-slc-project/
According to the article, Phase 1 of The Exchange has officially started construction, having received financing from Goldman Sachs.


Nothing yet on when Phase 2 will start construction though.

[bob rulz]

Glad to see The Exchange moving forward.

If Lowe can really do what they're saying, then good on them.

As far as maintenance of older buildings goes - I wish I knew a good, easy solution. I think it would be very wise to take a serious look at how these landlords keep up their properties, or more properly don't often keep them up. Residents being low-income is no excuse to allow them to live in buildings that are literally falling apart before their eyes.

Somehow Europe has managed to find a way to keep buildings that are hundreds of years old suitable for residential use, and it seems that they destroy MUCH less old architecture there. I'm not opposed to new architecture by any means, and sometimes it is better than the alternative. But there is definite value in preserving old architecture even beyond the aesthetic - so the real question is, how can we encourage landlords to actually keep up their properties well enough that they don't become so dilapidated that they end up like the La France Apartments or the complex in west Sugarhouse that Comrade mentioned?

[meman]

No one out there has answered my question that I asked a few pages back, has Tower 8 gotten any signed leases yet or is the building being built purely on speculation.

I have heard that the demand for large blocks of office space are sorely need in downtown Salt Lake so I would think CCR would have much trouble getting signed leases.

I also heard that Goldman Sachs might be leasing space in the building.

[delts145]

I would be very interested to know who Lowe's backers are. Sounds like it's money that is definitely coming from outside the region, perhaps the country. Asia...Korea maybe??? If they're really able to begin to start following up on some of their projects in short order, it has to be some of those outside sources. The financiers we've been predicting would begin to start entering the Salt Lake market in a much bigger way than in years past.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by meman

No one out there has answered my question that I asked a few pages back, has Tower 8 gotten any signed leases yet or is the building being built purely on speculation.

I have heard that the demand for large blocks of office space are sorely need in downtown Salt Lake so I would think CCR would have much trouble getting signed leases.

I also heard that Goldman Sachs might be leasing space in the building.

To my knowledge, Tower 8 hasn't gotten any signed leases yet. This is what happened with 111 S Main. The leases started to come in after the tower was around 25% built with the first being Goldman Sachs.

There is a lot of demand but most of the demand is from smaller companies that don't have the capital to wait a few years for a building to be built. This is one reason that the suburbs have been seeing so much growth.

Hopefully Tower 8 can keep many in SLC while attracting other companies and we can get another commercial building started prior to the completion of Tower 8. I think everyone would feel it is better to not have to rely on CCR/PRI to continually build commercial on spec just to compete with the suburbs.

[bob rulz]

How many other office towers do we know of that are planned? 600 S Main? Are there any others?