NEW YORK | New York by Gehry | 870 FT / 265 M | 76 FLOORS | T/O

[Fabb]

The building�s height, he said, is of less concern than its lack of community services.

That problem should be solved easily.

But what exactly would be the height of this building ? I hate it when articles mention a certain thing without being explicit.

[STERNyc]

Who else (that really has a justified say) is there:

Nevertheless, residents of 140 and 150 Nassau Sts. thought the slimmer alternative was an improvement, Epstein said.

[NYguy]

Paul Viggiano, president of Southbridge Towers co-op board, said at Community Board 1�s meeting... �We�re going to get all of our political muscle together to do what we can to get this building down [in size].�

Great. It's the return of every skycraper fan's dreaded enemy - the over-reactive NIMBY. Where were these people when the 90-story 1 NY Place was proposed?

Dan Slippen, director of community relations for Pace University, one of the building�s potential tenants, defended the increase in size. �We�ve been trying to make good will with the community,� he told the board. �We went to 75 stories because of an agreement with members of the community who did not want the bulk of the building against their building, which caused the building to rise.�

Exactly. You can't please everyone, so hopefully a line is drawn and Ratner continues to fight as he does in Brooklyn. Its also good that he has allies in the hopspital and Pace University.

Nevertheless, residents of 140 and 150 Nassau Sts. thought the slimmer alternative was an improvement, Epstein said.

Relieved there will be space between his apartment and the tower � Epstein�s bedroom windows look out on the site � Epstein argues that the building needs to be smaller in more ways than height. �The height is what gets some people excited, but the bulk is what counts,� he said. �If it�s going to be in this size range, it�s going to be a massive building [no matter what].�

Finally some common sense. Hopefully these residents, together with the hospital and Pace stand their ground..

The building�s staggering height and its bulk are not the community�s only concern. With no clear plans for amenities for the neighborhood � aside from the open plaza � C.B. 1 leaders and local politicians have stepped in to negotiate a development that is more appealing to the densely populated neighborhood.

Paul Goldstein, C.B. 1�s district manager, is hoping to set aside 50,000 square feet of space in the new building for a community center for the neighborhood, one with a gym and swimming pool.

There comes a time when you must say NO! The city can't allow projects to be held up according to every whim of someone who may happen to live in the area. This tower includes an expansion for the hospital (no community amenities?), an expansion for Pace, more parking, an open plaza, retail space, but this guy wants to hold it up for a swimming pool? Let them build one at the Seaport.

Its a decent site, but its only so much you can squeeze in there.

[JMGarcia]

This is typical NIMBY blackmail. They'll whine about the height until the developer throws in something for them.

The alternative is that the developer has been overstating what he really wants (say 55 instead of 75 floors) just so he can give in to the NIMBYs.

[NYguy]

DOWNTOWN EXPRESS

Divided opposition to East Side Ratner-Gehry tower

By Ronda Kaysen

With the closing date for the sale of NYU Downtown Hospital�s Beekman St. parking lot to Forest City Enterprises looming, residents of nearby Southbridge Towers have launched negotiations of their own with developer Bruce Ratner in the hopes of securing amenities for their own building � to the dismay of some Community Board 1 members.

Members of the board�s Seaport/Civic Center committee drafted a resolution at an Oct. 12 meeting calling for community solidarity in dealings with Ratner and his plans for a 75-story multi-use tower on the site.

If built, the Frank Gehry-designed tower will be the second tallest building Downtown after the Freedom Tower.

No amenities have been secured for the community as of yet, and City Councilmember Alan Gerson insists that once the deal closes (perhaps by the end of the month) the community will have less leverage to secure any amenities at all. Residents of nearby 140-150 Nassau St. filed a lawsuit against Ratner earlier this month, which may delay the closing if a settlement is not reached.

Two weeks ago, residents of nearby Southbridge Towers entered into discussions of their own with Ratner that, according to committee members, may undermine the community�s ability to negotiate effectively with the developer. �We all need to be working together and we should be honest with each other as we move forward in this process,� said Paul Goldstein, C.B. 1�s district manager and a Southbridge resident. �Obviously the developer is using a strategy of divide and conquer to divide the community.�

But Southbridge�s interests are not in conflict with the community�s interests, according to Paul Viggiano, president of the Southbridge Towers co-op board. Southbridge board members met with Ratner a few weeks ago for an �initial meeting� but �there were no negotiations, there was nothing,� he insisted. �If I thought for a minute that anything that Southbridge would ask for would diminish any other efforts, I guess I would pull out because I don�t want that to happen,� Viggiano said in a telephone interview.

Although Viggiano declined to comment about what specific amenities Southbridge is seeking, he mentioned �floors and windows� as two possible amenities and other sources suggested that the co-op board was negotiating for a community room and small park for Southbridge.

Seaport/Civic Center committee members expressed concern that Southbridge may weaken C.B. 1�s leverage. �The community board has been representing the community and supporting the desires of the community for many years. We have to speak in one voice,� Marc Donnenfeld, the committee�s chairperson, said at the meeting. Individual negotiations are �going to weaken the community board in the long run,� he added.

According to Viggiano, Southbridge has every right to try to secure amenities of its own with Ratner. �I would be remised as the president of this board if I wasn�t able to go out and talk to Ratner about specifics to Southbridge,� he said. �Everyone seems to be going out and asking for what they want.�

Residents of 140-150 Nassau St. stepped up its efforts to reach a deal with Ratner without the direct involvement of the community, says Viggiano, which has had the positive effect of �getting people to the bargaining table.� Residents of 140-150 Nassau St. approached Southbridge Towers regarding the lawsuit, but they declined to participate.

The 140-150 Nassau St. lawsuit, however, will not have a negative effect on community negotiations, says Goldstein of C.B. 1, because it calls for a Uniform Land Use Review Procedure and an environmental impact study for the tower, two processes that would require public review. Gerson also expressed his support for the lawsuit and said he may file a friend of the court brief in the event that negotiations break down.

Nassau St. residents are most interested in securing a plaza between their building and the Ratner building so the new tower will not block their windows, according to sources close to the suit.

Ratner did not return repeated calls for comment for this story.

According to Gerson, the financially strapped NYU Downtown Hospital insists it will be forced to file for bankruptcy if the lot is not sold by the closing date. If the hospital files for bankruptcy, it will be turned over to the New York State Department of Health. �I think the way it�s been handled is awful,� said Gerson at the meeting. �What assurance do we have that in years in the future they�re not going to be in the same straits?�

Bruce D. Logan, president and C.E.O. of Downtown Hospital, said the hospital has no immediate plans to file for bankruptcy. �NYU Downtown Hospital, like most hospitals operating in the current healthcare environment, is facing very severe financial difficulties,� Logan wrote in an e-mail statement. �However, in the event that the sale of the parking lot does not close by the end of the month, the hospital absolutely will not file for bankruptcy protection.�

The site was set aside for public use for NYU Downtown Hospital in 1964 after it had been taken over by the city under eminent domain. When the statue of limitations on use and height restrictions expired this year, Ratner began negotiations to purchase the property from the hospital. The tower�s architect, Frank Gehry, was tapped this week to design the theater cultural building in the new World Trade Center.

Partially financed by $243 million in commercial Liberty Bonds, Pace University will occupy 330,000 square feet on the lower 24 floors of the Beekman St. tower and 25,000 square feet will be reserved for an outpatient facility for the hospital. The remaining space will include rental and condo apartments. C.B. 1 hopes to secure 50,000 square feet for a community facility with a pool and health center.

C.B. 1 will vote on the resolution at its Oct. 19 full board meeting.

[FerrariEnzo]

Quote:If built, the Frank Gehry-designed tower will be the second tallest building Downtown after the Freedom Tower.

WOW

[FerrariEnzo]

Well if at 52 stories 7wtc is 750 feet and we used the same floor height ratio we are looking at 1081.731 feet. Add to that possible decorative features such as a crown ect and we have a VERY substanital building. This is just speculation though, Im not getting my hopes up yet.

PS: Thats taller than Bryant Park...

[Islander]

Unfortunately though it's not likely that this Gehry tower will have the same floor heights as 7WTC throughout, since I heard it will be 22 floors of office topped by 53 of luxury residential. Still, that pretty much guarantees a 900-950 foot minimum top floor, or higher if there is going to be a large lobby or large bottom floors. And then to top it off, a crown that could hit 1,000+ feet.

[billyblancoNYCII]

You can't tell how tall the NYU space will be, or the Pace space, either. Also, many luxury condos and rentals in NYC now have high ceilings in the 10-12 ft. range. It's all up in the air, really. I hope he just throws them a bone, give some cummunity space, and get this going.

[billyblancoNYCII]

Nice to think that Ratner is now planning to alter both Downtown NY and Downtown Brooklyn in the nect few years. It's about time people other than Trump step up!

[FerrariEnzo]

^Midtown as well, NYtimes......

[FerrariEnzo]

Well how about this, assuming there will be 20 floors office and 55 residential. Office marked at 14.1 and residential marked at 11. (20x14.1=282)+(55x11=605) yields a solid 887. Not factoring in any additional space for possible large lobby or mechanical floors or ornamental roof structures which I fully expect considering this is a Gehry after all.

[knarfor]

If it is going to be the second tallest building in downtown, that means it will be no shorter than 952 feet tall - counting spires. If you don't count spires, it will be no shorter than 927 feet tall. No matter what, it will make a huge impact. I'll have to add this to my future downtown rendering.

[knarfor]

The position is approximate:



The rendering shows downtown with the New WTC, the Goldman Sach's Tower, the Calatrava Tower, Gehry's tower. I just made Gehry's tower a glass box since I don't know what it will actually look like. The height is about ~960 ft.

[Islander]

Speaking of 40 wall street's height, why IS its roof listed at 927 feet in the diagrams? That's its spire pinnacle height. The roof is, well, somewhere between about 905 and 865 feet (I can't tell if those sections are observation rooms or just part of the spire). I remember because during the WTB war between the Chrysler building and 40 wall, it was stated that 927 feet was the top of 40 wall's spire, while the Chrysler's top was 925 feet before the spire was hoisted (strangely, its roof height is still listed as 925 feet by most sources dispite the addition of a couple of extra crown sections following raising of the spire). I THINK I'm correct on all this...

[Lecom]

Alright, what the hell's the "community" problem? Would they rather have a parking lot there with absolutely no community amenities at all?!

[NYguy]

I like the inclusion of the Calatrava tower. Gehry's tower will have some sort of crown at the top. Being in the 1,000 ft range (at the moment) and not surrounded by other towers, it will be a very visible landmark....

Originally Posted by knarfor

The position is approximate:



The rendering shows downtown with the New WTC, the Goldman Sach's Tower, the Calatrava Tower, Gehry's tower. I just made Gehry's tower a glass box since I don't know what it will actually look like. The height is about ~960 ft.

I can't wait to see a rendering!

[Fabb]

Forget Gehry.
I like knarfor's design !
Simple and elegant, with a nice texture.

[FerrariEnzo]

^Too boxy. I want some extravagence reminiscent of Woolworth.

Well call it Woolworth 2k4.