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  #2301  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 8:57 AM
Migs Migs is offline
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Very happy to see that there is some strong push for a stadium in Halifax. Rider Nation would love to invade your city and we here in Regina would be elated to have some of you folks make the trek out west for a game in the heartland of football.

Also, very cool looking uni's, not as nice as these though.


image from sportsnet.ca

image by moi
     
     
  #2302  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 10:32 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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The Mosaic Stadium in Regina looks very impressive in that picture. It looks much better with people in the stands.

PS: Here is a good argument in favour of a stadium near the urban core (perhaps next to the Via Station). This is in reference to the Mosaic Stadium in Regina which was posted in this thread - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...188287&page=12 :

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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Sorry 1ajs, but I couldn't resist jumping in with my own two cents on this.

In theory, Mosaic Stadium shouldn't work, but it does. A 30,000 seat stadium in a residential area with hardly any parking, yet people manage to make it in without any problems. I don't see why moving the stadium 3/4 of a kilometre east would all of a sudden cause insurmountable problems.

Personally, on the rare occasions when I've attended football games in Regina, I have left the car behind downtown and walked the short distance to Mosaic. With a stadium that's even closer to downtown, I would think that all of downtown Regina and the warehouse area north of the tracks would be used for parking. And given that most games are played evenings and weekends - a time when downtown Regina is not normally bursting at the seams - I don't see capacity being an issue.

The arguments being marshalled against the Regina complex echo the ones used against the MTS Centre, and we all know how valid those turned out to be. I think the Regina stadium is a great idea, provided of course that the province can afford such an ambitious structure. I think Winnipeg could take a lesson from its western neighbours in thinking big. By contrast, our sports facilities are certainly passable places to watch a game, but were never (and won't be, in the case of the football stadium) particularly impressive places even on day one. Good on Regina, I say. I don't think it would hurt if Winnipeg were embarrassed a bit by Saskatchewan's can-do approach to this. Maybe we might step up our game a little in response.

Last edited by fenwick16; Feb 10, 2011 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Whoops - I had a link to my comment page
     
     
  #2303  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 11:16 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Quebec City arena funding

Quebec City is going ahead with their new $400 million dollar arena (for hockey, not football). The Quebec government is funding 45% percent (they have more money to spend than Nova Scotia, I guess that is just the reality of the situation not a slight against Nova Scotia).

The federal government is saying that it will allow use of the gas tax revenues to cities and towns to help fund it by changing the federal rules that currently prohibit the use of these tax transfers in such a manner. Unfortunately, such a method of federal funding does little for a Halifax stadium since the money would be taken from other local infrastructure projects. Hopefully the federal government can do better for Halifax - http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...837/story.html . It would be good to see some preferential treatment given to Halifax from the federal government for a change (although it is unlikely).
     
     
  #2304  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 2:19 PM
ATL Stadium ATL Stadium is offline
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Well HRM has proceeded to another amazing step forward...$100,000 to come up with a business plan.....
I do have a huge concern here! In my humble opinion that is paramount to an excuse for staff (who forced the biz plan) to try to stop this. Where was the need for a biz plan for the new library? Where is the biz plan for the new bus terminal? Where is the biz plan for the new 12million dollar community Ctr in bedford.....
We all have a very difficult time quantifying benefits.... A Stadium! Sure a biz plan is like a budget....guestimation.... but people will balk at a Stadium plan and say see it does not work....
A STADIUM is not a business.....like to see them put together a business plan for a Statue!
A STADIUM is infrastructure, capital cost to enable other activities that can be supported by biz plans. Like a concert! Expenses vs revenues.
Take a potential pro sports team....they would be a tenant only....a concert, rents the stadium, a CIS game...like the Uteck Bowl would rent the stadium.

The Stadium covers its expenses via rental revenues...hopefully they are close match.

But to build......that is a sunk cost...it will not be supported by a biz plan.
     
     
  #2305  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ATL Stadium View Post
Well HRM has proceeded to another amazing step forward...$100,000 to come up with a business plan.....
I do have a huge concern here! In my humble opinion that is paramount to an excuse for staff (who forced the biz plan) to try to stop this. Where was the need for a biz plan for the new library? Where is the biz plan for the new bus terminal? Where is the biz plan for the new 12million dollar community Ctr in bedford.....
We all have a very difficult time quantifying benefits.... A Stadium! Sure a biz plan is like a budget....guestimation.... but people will balk at a Stadium plan and say see it does not work....
A STADIUM is not a business.....like to see them put together a business plan for a Statue!
A STADIUM is infrastructure, capital cost to enable other activities that can be supported by biz plans. Like a concert! Expenses vs revenues.
Take a potential pro sports team....they would be a tenant only....a concert, rents the stadium, a CIS game...like the Uteck Bowl would rent the stadium.

The Stadium covers its expenses via rental revenues...hopefully they are close match.

But to build......that is a sunk cost...it will not be supported by a biz plan.
How about a biz plan for the oval?

I hope they understand that the biz plan will just identify the expenditure required on an annual basis and that it will be worth it as it is in every other community of this size in North America/developed world!

Fast track corporate support......
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  #2306  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 5:33 PM
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More media coverage on the stadium.
Have a listen to Mayor Kelly on Maritime Noon on CBC Radio podcast. (First 6 minutes)

http://www.cbc.ca/maritimenoon/2011/...ings-accounts/
     
     
  #2307  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 5:37 PM
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  #2308  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 7:27 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I believe that the business plan would also identify the indirect jobs and revenue associated with having a stadium. If it results in an additional 30,000 - 40,000 visitors to Halifax per year then that would result in a real economic boast to the local economy. If it attracts 20 events per year then that would on average only be 1,500 - 2,000 visitors per event. I don't think that is far-fetched.

Then there is the quality of life factor which is harder to quantify.
     
     
  #2309  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 8:07 PM
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Sorry for my ignorance being from Winnipeg but I keep reading about your former army housing Shannon Park and it's quite similar to the problem we have in Winnipeg with our former army barracks on Kenaston here in the peg. The land is next to the most valuable real estate in the city next to Tuxedo but it isn't being redeveloped for almost 10 years now because of a First Nations land claim dispute currently held up in court with the federal govt. Is this a similar problem in Halifax in why Shannon Park isn't redeveloped. Also I was on worldstadiums.com and the 2014 Olympic Stadium in Sochi Russia is being built for $63 million and seats 40,000 people.
     
     
  #2310  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 8:22 PM
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I'd have to agree with Brett in terms of a business case. I read the article he posted and while I don't agree with all of it, I don't think there is a business case to be made for a stadium in a business sense.

That being said, I agree with him that a stadium is one of those quality of life pieces of infrastructure (kind of like the oval or the 4 pad arena) where you pay the money to build it and realize it might make some money back, but never enough to pay for itself. That's just the nature of some things that make a city great.

Where I don't agree with Humphrey's is on the economic impacts of a sports team and stadium. I preface this comment with i'm not an economist, but I'm looking at it from a common sense view. I'm also going to use Shannon Park for my example.

When I look at SP - I see that there would be room left over (after the stadium, road improvements and parking lots) to probably still include some mixed use development (hotels, apartments, restaurants). So, to me there is an economic impact of building the stadium - create development opportunities around it.

Plus I look at the stadium as much more than just a football or soccer game opportunity. The Stampeder's did 9 home games for the 2010 season, but this stadium could also hold soccer games/tournaments and concerts. So all these people assuming it would sit empty seem to miss those things too, which is where I find Humphrey's article lacking. It didn't seem to take that into account, just the pro sports teams. But with even 9 home games, depending on how well tickets sell and the size of the stadium - it could generate impressive tourism draw. What was the 'announced' economic impact of Touchdown Atlantic - something like $4 million for 20,000 people at the game? Aren't we talking about a stadium somewhere between 20,000 and 50,000 (for a grey cup)? If you look at the top end size #, the economic impact in HRM could easily be double the $4 in Moncton per game (40,000 seats, 2X the economic impact). Now, I'm making a huge assumption there.

Plus, I suspect that if a team landed in Halifax you would have a huge draw all over the maritimes, especially if the team reduced the games in Halifax to say 7 and did 2 in Moncton. Add to that people taking the train, flying, driving, staying in hotels - this is where I doubt Humphrey's article from a common sense perspective - and this is all with a football team. Add in soccer tournaments and concerts and I see way more potential. That's just my rant on it though.
     
     
  #2311  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 8:45 PM
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The cost of running a cfl team each year is in the 13-18 million range with players salaries coaches, general staff ect.. and advertising. The average ticket price is probably $40 bucks a ticket. mulitply by 25,000 x 10 games That's $10 million just in ticket sales then add in souvenirs, booze and food and this team should make a profit because there is no other competition for the sporting dollar other than the qmjhl.
     
     
  #2312  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thurmas View Post
Sorry for my ignorance being from Winnipeg but I keep reading about your former army housing Shannon Park and it's quite similar to the problem we have in Winnipeg with our former army barracks on Kenaston here in the peg. The land is next to the most valuable real estate in the city next to Tuxedo but it isn't being redeveloped for almost 10 years now because of a First Nations land claim dispute currently held up in court with the federal govt. Is this a similar problem in Halifax in why Shannon Park isn't redeveloped. Also I was on worldstadiums.com and the 2014 Olympic Stadium in Sochi Russia is being built for $63 million and seats 40,000 people.
Yes, I think there is a First Nations land claim here, not sure of much else.
     
     
  #2313  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2011, 9:50 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macgregor View Post
Yes, I think there is a First Nations land claim here, not sure of much else.
Wiki shows that there is a land claim on the entry for Shannon Park. There is no information reference though - so I don't know where to confirm the information.
     
     
  #2314  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2011, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thurmas View Post
Sorry for my ignorance being from Winnipeg but I keep reading about your former army housing Shannon Park and it's quite similar to the problem we have in Winnipeg with our former army barracks on Kenaston here in the peg. The land is next to the most valuable real estate in the city next to Tuxedo but it isn't being redeveloped for almost 10 years now because of a First Nations land claim dispute currently held up in court with the federal govt. Is this a similar problem in Halifax in why Shannon Park isn't redeveloped. Also I was on worldstadiums.com and the 2014 Olympic Stadium in Sochi Russia is being built for $63 million and seats 40,000 people.
All this for around 60 million?!!! 40,000 seats?!! We could build a smaller version for less that wasn't as elaborate for probably 40-55 million.

This thing looks amazing. I hope city councillors see that something like this could be built and be a masterpiece that would make other cities envious. Imagine the helicopter flyover into this.









     
     
  #2315  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2011, 3:19 AM
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From this point on I think I'll mostly avoid this thread. It is interesting now that there is some news but people are getting a little too worked up. At the end of the day please remember that this is a discussion forum and a place for opinions.
I took a break from this thread in January for exactly the same reason. Some people on here get way too emotionally involved in this...
     
     
  #2316  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2011, 3:20 AM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
I'd have to agree with Empire's comment about Shannon Park - any stadium would look incredible coming up the harbour.
Definitely! The only visual drawbacks in that area would be NSPI Tufts Cove and the high tension lines (and rusted towers) running next to the MacKay Bridge.
     
     
  #2317  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2011, 3:26 AM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Also, very cool looking uni's, not as nice as these though.

Sir, I believe you are mistaken.

     
     
  #2318  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2011, 4:13 AM
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Originally Posted by hfx_chris View Post
I took a break from this thread in January for exactly the same reason. Some people on here get way too emotionally involved in this...
Excluding this post I've been taking a break from this thread for 2 years and counting!

I'm all for the stadium and everything if the case can be made. However I am like my councillor counter-part, Tim Outhit, and have ideas for what that large amount of money can be spent on.
     
     
  #2319  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2011, 5:24 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dmajackson View Post
Excluding this post I've been taking a break from this thread for 2 years and counting!

I'm all for the stadium and everything if the case can be made. However I am like my councillor counter-part, Tim Outhit, and have ideas for what that large amount of money can be spent on.
Not quite, this thread has only existed for a bit over a year. But isn't your "break" because you have other stronger interests? Obviously that is Tim Outhit's viewpoint - he has a stronger interest in community rail to Bedford than a stadium.

I keep taking a break from the Active Transportation thread - some people on that thread get too emotional over the right of bicyclists to have bike paths in the middle of busy city streets. I don't get it - why don't those people just buy cars and ride their bicycles on bike paths in parks? In any case, I might post on that thread once in a while just to show that "I am all for active transportation".

In any case, I humbly apologize for my irrational interest in a stadium and for all the others on this thread who share my irrational interest in a stadium and post on this thread on a regular basis when they could be posting on more important issues. (excuse my sarcasm)
     
     
  #2320  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2011, 6:14 AM
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Not quite, this thread has only existed for a bit over a year. But isn't your "break" because you have other stronger interests? Obviously that is Tim Outhit's viewpoint - he has a stronger interest in community rail to Bedford than a stadium.
Maybe there was a predecessor to this thread I was reading before ... oh well it doesn't really matter anyways.

You are bang on with mine and Tim's thoughts though. Just like everybody we look out onto the state of the municipality and see problems. The difference is we see the problems clearly in Bedford and unlike a lot of HRM citizens we realize the money being spent on this could be used as the start-up for rail transit. I can understand why South-Enders don't care for money spent in Bedford just like we don't care about the new sidewalk in Sheet Harbour.

Anyways my point is I'd rather see the rail be built right now and have the stadium wait a few years (just build it by the time we hit half a million).

Quote:
I keep taking a break from the Active Transportation thread - some people on that thread get too emotional over the right of bicyclists to have bike paths in the middle of busy city streets. I don't get it - why don't those people just buy cars and ride their bicycles on bike paths in parks? In any case, I might post on that thread once in a while just to show that "I am all for active transportation".
I'll admit I do get a little overly involved in the Active Transportation thread but bicycle advocating is engulfing my life right now so its hard to avoid posting my thoughts from time to time. I don't think you and I will ever see eye to eye on respects to transportation and I'm fine with that but without posting an essay here are the reasons I bike instead of drive; it's better for the environment, it keeps me in good physical shape, in Bedford its almost as efficient as driving, it can be relaxing off of main roads, little to no chance of causing bodily harm to others, and bicycle ownership costs nothing just initial purchase and an annual checkup.

Quote:
In any case, I humbly apologize for my irrational interest in a stadium and for all the others on this thread who share my irrational interest in a stadium and post on this thread on a regular basis when they could be posting on more important issues. (excuse my sarcasm)
I wouldn't apologize for being passionate about something. I love advocating for my fellow cyclists. I gives me a sense of belonging and venting on this forum is a good way to let steam out when things aren't working out well.

If building a stadium is your passion then keep fighting for it. Just don't stoop to the level of lieing like the Heritage Trust and everyone will respect your opinion.

BTW if any of this post doesn't make sense it's becuase its 2am and my caffeine wore off hours ago.
     
     
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