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  #241  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 5:53 PM
upinottawa upinottawa is offline
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Well, if the racetrack moves to Tecumseh the track can kiss that $15 million from the city goodbye.

This proposal still appears to be bizarre -- hopefully Tecumseh is not trying to poach one of Windsor's assets. That being said, Manning and the 401 is practically in the town of Essex. Who wants an arena out there?

For a visual:

Copy: Manning Rd & HWY-401 (E), Tecumseh, ON
Paste above in search box: http://www.google.ca/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=
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  #242  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 5:58 PM
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Tecumseh can go screw itself. This arena fiasco gets stupider every year.
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  #243  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 6:28 PM
upinottawa upinottawa is offline
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There is nothing out there except the OPP station -- this location is even way outside the actual town of Tecumseh.

I cannot imagine that this location would be much better for a racetrack either. The Raceway would be starting from scratch requiring a new building and new slot machines, etc.

Is the current track location confusing to Metro Detroiters looking to gamble? If that is the case, is the 401 easier to find than the expressway (probably)?

If the Spits do not want to be associated with gambling then I cannot imagine they would want to be associated with gambling and an arena in a cornfield.
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  #244  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 8:49 PM
y2k_pony y2k_pony is offline
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If this arena project in Tecumseh goes ahead, they would definately need to make Manning road into atleast 2 lanes each way. Good news for Tecumseh tho! Woohoo!

Hopefully with all this extra money generated my taxes will go down.
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  #245  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 8:51 PM
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Corner of Manning and the 401? Friends of Pike Creek wildlife area?? End of Baseline Rd??? Give me a break! Western super-anchor site all the way!!

*and the arena debate continues another 15 years*
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  #246  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 8:57 PM
y2k_pony y2k_pony is offline
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Tecumseh gets raceway, arena
The Windsor Star
Published: Friday, September 29, 2006

In a surprise move that sidesteps city council, Windsor Raceway announced today it will move to Tecumseh, bringing its racetrack, slots and plans for the area’s largest sports venue that includes a 6,500-seat arena.

The $50-million project includes a $15-million contribution from the Town of Tecumseh, the same amount the Project Icetrack Team — comprised of the Toldo Group, Rosati Group and Synergystic Attractions, which includes Wayne Gretzky — had asked for but failed to secure from the City of Windsor.

The 6,500-seat arena, which will also house Gretzky’s G99 restaurant and museum, is slated to open in 2008. Plus, the new facility will be home to restaurants owned by M-10 Enterprises and a yet unnamed hockey franchise.

“Today is a landmark day for Tecumseh,” Tecumseh Mayor Gary McNamara said. “Not only will the townspeople of Tecumseh be well served by this new facility, but this will be of great benefit to Essex County.”

The public/private partnership project will be built on 130 acres of land on Manning Road at Highway 401. It will include: a practice ice facility; guaranteed hours for community access; the new home of standardbred racing in the area; and a new raceway slots facility.

Brian Tropea, executive vice-president of the Ontario Harness Horse Association, supports the project.

“This facility will drive a renaissance in harness racing in South Western Ontario,” he said. “The location is ideal and we are certain that will realize a growth in interest in our sport as people attend this new facility. We can’t wait to start racing in Tecumseh.”

Tecusmeh council unanimously approved the deal with Icetrack at a meeting this week.


Yaahooo!!
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  #247  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 9:54 PM
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This is the whole problem with this region, we have cities and towns fighting against each other, making secret deals, and only caring about themselves. Why the hell didn't the province force Windsor to annex its suburbs 5 years ago like they forced every other city to?
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  #248  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 11:04 PM
arnold arnold is offline
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^ shades of SE michigan... the detroit influence on windsor is remarkable at times.

seriously though, can't windsor go to the provincial government and ask them to re-examine the idea of annexation? the way things are going, the windsor region is going to end up a sprawling, disfunctional, decentralized mess that will become nearly impossible to serve properly. just like its neighbour across the river...
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  #249  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 11:23 PM
y2k_pony y2k_pony is offline
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Im just glad that the region finally got a new arena. How long has Windsor City council been sitting on this issue? With their feet dragging we would have been lucky to have had an arena in 10 years. I hope that the city doesnt annex suburbs. More taxes and less services. I also think that Windsor council blows tax money on the stupidest things. Hope it never happens.
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  #250  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2006, 11:48 PM
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If there weren't so many thousands of suburbanites who leach off the city every day by using our roads but not paying a cent to maintain them, then Windsor might be able to lower taxes a bit and have better services (and that's just one example). It only makes sense to annex and Windsor should approach the province about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnold
the windsor region is going to end up a sprawling, disfunctional, decentralized mess that will become nearly impossible to serve properly.
It's already happening...Lakeshore is growing out of control with no end in sight.
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  #251  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2006, 12:20 AM
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^ right. so the province should step in and force annexation and put the brakes on that sort of thing.

it would seem to make sense, since the provincial (if not federal) governments are all talking about smart planning, smart growth and revitilizing urban centres to slow green field development (like with the GTA's greenbelt plan). the burbs that continue to sprawl and undercut the core cities are really doing the region as a whole a great disservice IMHO. i mean, its pretty short-sighted for the burbs to continue to encourage sprawl of this sort and to put off facing important decisions on cooperation, density and planning.

but IMO, everyone in the region would benifit from a more focused development plan. i'm no expert, but i'd be willing to bet that you (the region) would end up with better inter city rail service, better mass transit, better traffic planning, better residential concentrations, better civic spaces, better shopping districts and better amenities. you would probably be able to attract and retain a broader spectrum of citizens as well instead of losing them to places like toronto, london and ottawa.

granted, windsor isn't the model governing body i would hold up as example of how things should be done. i realize that they've duffed a LOT of key decisions in the past and seem more like the keystone cops at times, but i definatley think that the region would be so much better off with just one governing body calling the shots.
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  #252  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2006, 3:13 AM
y2k_pony y2k_pony is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz
If there weren't so many thousands of suburbanites who leach off the city every day by using our roads but not paying a cent to maintain them, then Windsor might be able to lower taxes a bit and have better services (and that's just one example). It only makes sense to annex and Windsor should approach the province about it.



It's already happening...Lakeshore is growing out of control with no end in sight.
well, the company I work for pays taxes to the city. Everytime a suburbanite purchases something from a buisness in windsor then that company is paying taxes to the city. Alot of people from Windsor drive through my town to get to Patillo rd, and all the other plants in Lakeshore, You dont see us Bitching.

Last edited by y2k_pony; Sep 30, 2006 at 3:21 AM.
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  #253  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2006, 5:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k_pony
If this arena project in Tecumseh goes ahead, they would definately need to make Manning road into atleast 2 lanes each way.
The environmental assessment to expand Manning road from 2 lanes to 4 from 401 to county road 22 is already underway, or will be very soon. Funding to expand it from county road 22 to the via rail lines has already been approved and construction should be starting in the not too distant future.
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  #254  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2006, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yupislyr
The environmental assessment to expand Manning road from 2 lanes to 4 from 401 to county road 22 is already underway, or will be very soon. Funding to expand it from county road 22 to the via rail lines has already been approved and construction should be starting in the not too distant future.
So what about the congestion from #3 too the 401 going up Manning, that will stay 2 lanes, come on! When are they going to realise that the span of Essex county is 1720 sq kms with a population of over 166,000. And 3/4 of those people are trying to get too the same city for work. Windsor & Essex county once again will get shit on.
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  #255  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2006, 3:53 PM
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well, the company I work for pays taxes to the city. Everytime a suburbanite purchases something from a buisness in windsor then that company is paying taxes to the city. Alot of people from Windsor drive through my town to get to Patillo rd, and all the other plants in Lakeshore, You dont see us Bitching.
Because you have nothing to bitch about! The commuting patterns show a huge bias toward people coming into the city each day. Tecumseh and LaSalle would be nothing without Windsor and it's only a matter of time before they're annexed.
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  #256  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2006, 12:41 AM
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Someone actually said "Tecumseh can go screw itself" in one breathe and then decried a lack of regional thinking in the next breath? Seems that attidude is proof-positive of the provincial attitudes at play in this area.

Annexation is, for now anyway, a dead issue. It hasn't been successful or provided significant cost or tax savings in any other city where it's occurred. Taxes do not go down in the original core city--they merely rise in the suburbs to match the inner city tax rates. Annexation is nothing more than an effort by large cities to have their infrastructure expenses covered by suburban municipalities that are in growth mode. The land exchange a few years back between Windsor and Tecumseh (in the area around YQG) makes more sense than outright annexation.

As for the arena issue--Tecumseh merely acted decisively, quickly and with a clear focus on what they could achieve while the council in Windsor continued to banter about a growing list of proposals and sites. If Windsor feels compelled to build something to "compete" with Ice Track, they are welcome to make it work at their own cost. That being said, their waffling and indecisiveness has cost the city the Raceway and Slots--and hopefully the voters of the city while hold someone, or someones, responsible for that in November. In spite of what many perceive as it's "isolation", Manning and the 401 is far from being a hinterland--especially if you consider the traffic volume provided by the 401 alone. I'm certain Rosati and Toldo will find an appropriate use for the current Raceway site--with it's outparcels (McDonalds, Shell, TH) it already looks like a big box development in the making--and it seems to me West Windsor is lacking a Wal*Mart. When you consider the new border crossing in that area and population growth in La Salle--the future of that site for commercial purposes is quite bright.

In spite of their fear of "gaming", I'm sure the ownership group for the Spits will see the light and choose to locate at Ice Track--it certainly wouldn't be the only OHL team to locate at a distance from it's respective downtown. I suspect either that, or the Spits will be faced with competing against the phantom AHL team the Toldo/Rosati group is looking at bringing in as a major tenant.
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  #257  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2006, 1:48 AM
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^
wal*marts, big box stores, strip malls, endless traffic congestion and suburban sprawl. is that what everyone in techumseh and la salle aspire to? because it sounds just like the way things go across the river...

i had hoped for better for windsor region.
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  #258  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2006, 1:52 AM
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Quote:
Someone actually said "Tecumseh can go screw itself" in one breathe and then decried a lack of regional thinking in the next breath? Seems that attidude is proof-positive of the provincial attitudes at play in this area.
I'm a severely frustrated Windsorite, what do you want? Tecumseh didn't have to be all shady about this deal, they should have been open about their interest and discussing it with the neighbouring municipalities - they didn't think regionally, it was all about themselves.
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  #259  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2006, 1:53 PM
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Blitz--I absolutely can understand your frustration. I moved to Windsor in 1993 and distinctly remember looking at the proposed Arena in model form in the Compri Hotel shopping concourse--in fact, I believe the renderings are still there somewhere on the second floor. I have seen successful councils fumble the issue over-and-over--and clearly they were fumbling the issue again with Ice Track (although the Spits ownership group can shoulder some blame here too).

I suppose you are correct--Tecumseh was being somewhat subversive--as was Ice Track--but in the end, that is the nature of business. Ice Track was indeed negotiating with Tecumseh while trying to negotiate with Windsor. On the other hand, Windsor was out soliticing for east-end proposals while negotiating with Ice Track--six of one, half-dozen of the other. Regional-thinking is great--and I'd welcome it--but I've never seen it happen here. The first time I've heard Francis talk positively about regional thinking/planning was when he was asked about the impact of losing the track and slots to Tecumseh--suddenly it seems, he was on-side with regionalism.

I was amused/disappointed to see The Star run a wildly inaccurate prediction that Ice Track will fail in Tecumseh--I believe the columnist in question called it "the worst idea in Ontario since Copps Coliseum." He went on to deride Hamilton (my hometown for the first 19 years of my life) for having built Copps in the hope of securing an NHL team. He called it a white-elephant (it's actually a pretty active, and yes, profitable, venue for sports, entertainment and conventions) and then inaccurately referred to the AHL Bulldogs as "struggling" to attract fans--when in fact, their draw is on par with league average. Sad to see someone in Windsor unfairly and inaccurately malign another city--when in fact it is often Windsor that's on the receiving end of unfair comments such as that.

As a Windsor-ite you might be disappointed to see an arean in Tecumseh (I'd still prefer it downtown--and I live 5 minutes from Manning/401) but if ALL of us are going to start thinking regionally, we need to hope its successful WHEREVER it's built.
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  #260  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2006, 4:34 PM
y2k_pony y2k_pony is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz
I'm a severely frustrated Windsorite, what do you want? Tecumseh didn't have to be all shady about this deal, they should have been open about their interest and discussing it with the neighbouring municipalities - they didn't think regionally, it was all about themselves.
Did Windsor discuss the arena proposals with any of the other neighbours? No. So why should Tecumseh. After all, it is the Developers choice on where they want to locate and who would pay the 15 million first. All the other Municipalities have been waiting 20 years for Windsor to make a Decision on this arena, its not like this was a new idea and Tecumseh just swooped in and took it away. Just be happy the region is getting one!
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