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Originally Posted by Eau Claire
Melting ice is an issue with respect to the possible melting of the polar ice caps, which would lead to sea rise, but that is decades way.
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There are many sources of data out there which illustrate that polar ice is depleting very quickly, with significant losses recorded each year. Looking at it solely from the perspective of sea rise is only considering one small aspect of polar ice melt. There is also the affect on the species that depend on those conditions (famously: polar bears, but many more), and there are many things that we don't understand yet. How will the change in reflectivity affect the global mean temperature? When we get to the point that all the energy required for a state change of the ice from a solid to a liquid has been absorbed, what effect will that unabsorbed heat load have on global temperatures? What effect will the warmer northern and southern waters have on the species who live in colder waters? What effect will warming waters have on our weather (i.e. hurricanes, ocean currents, etc.)? Etc etc.
It appears that you are considering one negative aspect related to ice melt and saying it's not a problem because the seas haven't risen significantly yet. I'm sure your thoughts are much more complex than that, but it's not reflected in your statement.
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The causes of the forest fire issue, in north American at least, are known and climate change is not a major factor. See the previous discussion and links in this thread.
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All of those things you stated are indeed factors. I was buying into your argument. But how can you say climate change is not a major factor? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it is, but I'm also not saying it's not. Much of the "proof" appears to be looking at a selected set of parameters, and creating an argument based on those parameters - but our environment is way more complicated than that.
More study required, IMHO.
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Climate change is also not a major factor in the extinction issue, at least not today. Overfishing, deforestation, human encroachment on wild areas, invasive species brought to new places by man, and plastics and other chemicals being released into the environment are some of the major causes.
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All of these are factors - nobody is disputing that - but the fact that these issues are factors does not prove that the environment is not.
See my above point on rising ocean temperatures. Small changes to environment can affect the habits of some species, causing some to move to a suitable environment or in the worst case to die off. Some of these species might be a food supply for larger species, so this can go right through the food chain. Or, it may cause a species to move to an area of greater human activity (i.e. shipping lanes, etc.), which affects their ability to survive in other ways. Again, very complex and not easily discredited with simple arguments.
Are ocean temperatures rising? Well, long-standing ice caps are melting, and science (i.e. through core samples, etc.) has proven that some of this ice has been around for literally thousands of years, and in the space of 50 years much of it has been melting. Is it a simple weather cycle? The amount of successive years of ice accumulation far outweighs the number of years to severely reduce it, so I don't think we can make that conclusion.
As an aside, ironically, the current US government, who appears to take the stand that climate change doesn't exist, is highly interested in the new shipping lanes that are opening up because of the polar ice melt, and who will control them. Yet apparently no thought as to why they are opening up.
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I think you’re being selective with your interpretation here. You will have noticed that everything is being blamed on climate change these days – to the point where it has become a farce, in fact – and one of the issues there is that there generally ISN’T any kind of explanation for why a given incident is related to climate change. Or if there is it’s some kind of generic statement like “hotter and dryer, therefore more fires” which often isn’t even true. Especially on this issue it’s very important to demand facts and logic. And with respect to the attacks, it’s the fear industry that’s doing the most egregious forms of that. I know that David Keith has been attacked mercilessly by “environmental groups” that don’t favour the solutions he’s working on. I read another one of these articles on a fairly prominent website just a few weeks ago.
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Not being selective at all. The gist of my post is that there are a lot of blanket statements being constantly thrown around, by governments, by the media, by those using social media, etc. that a particular incident or phenomenon is caused, or not caused, by climate change... with no proof whatsoever. My thoughts are that most of it appears to be to push some sort of political agenda without actually trying to understand and solve the problem. And, as has become the norm in political - and now societal - circles, the simple refute is often to try to discredit the 'other side' without any basis other than believing what we want to believe.
From your posts, I don't get the impression that you fall within this category, but it's not clear that your arguments are taking a comprehensive enough viewpoint. Or, maybe that it's just hard to communicate that on a message board.
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I’m curious who you’ve been reading these days who says that climate change isn’t happening.
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Look around you... it's all over the place. Many many many (ad infinitum) people are flatly denying that there is anything going on outside of the norms of weather cycles that the earth has always experienced.
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The point of the media barrage by the fear industry is exactly to overwhelm and to manipulate you through emotion, without facts. But the facts are out there, so when you’re feeling overwhelmed do some digging, and you’re feel a lot better. We’re not at a point where I’d say it’s problem solved, but we’re making great progress, and we have been for 10 years at least in various ways. But you won’t have read about that in the mainstream media, and that’s a problem.
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This is nothing new. The media has always done that, maybe with more desperation and less staff (and therefore less actual research) than before, but sensationalizing is something the media has always had in their cache. However, where there is smoke there is fire (not trying to be cute here) so you have to look through the noise and see where it is originating from.
When look deeper I do not see any proof that 'nothing' is happening, nor do I see any indisputable fact-based material that says we have XX years to solve it. Lots of theories but nothing clearly conclusive as yet. I know it can be comforting to tell ourselves that we have it all figured out, and therefore we have nothing to worry about, but I don't think that matches the reality that we are facing. That's the point I was trying to make, I'm not sure that you got it.