401 Interchanges

[Kokkei Mizu]

So, assuming Wonderland Rd. is the next road in London to get an interchange with the 401, what road do you think may get an interchange after that? Or do you think London has all the interchanges it will ever get.

My vote is Westminster Dr. That would only be if south London gets developed a lot more... but I could see it happening. One main reason that I could see it happen, would be because it would be the only East-West road to have an interchange (other than Exeter Rd.). It would also provide access to White Oaks Rd, which is the only concession that doesn't have 401 access from Highway 4 to Highbury.

What do you think?

[MolsonExport]

^most probably, but I reckon it is 15 years in the future, or even longer. Look how long the Wonderland & 401 interchange has been discussed.

[Snark]

Originally Posted by Kokkei Mizu

So, assuming Wonderland Rd. is the next road in London to get an interchange with the 401, what road do you think may get an interchange after that? Or do you think London has all the interchanges it will ever get.

My vote is Westminster Dr. That would only be if south London gets developed a lot more... but I could see it happening. One main reason that I could see it happen, would be because it would be the only East-West road to have an interchange (other than Exeter Rd.). It would also provide access to White Oaks Rd, which is the only concession that doesn't have 401 access from Highway 4 to Highbury.

What do you think?

There will be more, but there isn't a pressing need for more at this time.

The City is currently channeling growth to fill out the remaining developable lands to the north, west, and east of the existing urbanization. This is because existing servicing exists there that future growth can be plugged into. South of the 401/402 in the west half of the city is in a different drainage basin and water pressure zone, requiring it's own, new servicing infrastructure (i.e. sewage plant, reservoir, substations, etc. - and the trunk lines that feed to and from those facilities). Very expensive, very sensitive socio-politically. So, not gonna happen 'till the other lands are used up, or if someone can convince the City to jump the gun and will finance to the tune of hundred's of million of dollars to build all this necessary supporting infrastructure early. Manulife tried this a few years ago, but just wanted their lands rezoned to allow for industrial development without front-ending the funding for significant infrastructure upgrades. The City wisely rejected their application.

So what's the connection with the staging of development and new interchanges? Basically, until there is significant urbanization south of the 401/402 corridor, there isn't a pressing need to spend $30 million on an interchange to corn fields. Keep in mind that the City has to fund new interchanges, so unless it's part of a larger development initiative of the surrounding area it would be irresponsible to spending the funding on one now.

[haljackey]

MTO standards recommend 3-5 km between interchanges. Wonderland will get built, but I doubt any others will.

I could see a junction with White Oaks Road, but not with Westminister. Best not to think about it until after the Wonderland junction is built.

Also, the junctions with the VMP, Highbury and Highway 4 need to get rebuilt.
-VMP needs resurfacing or replacement turning it from a three way to a four way junction
-Highbury overpass needs replacement soon, it's getting old.
-Highway 4 needs a redesign from a cloverleaf to a parclo, and a longer overpass to support a 6 lane 401 underneath it.

[manny_santos]

I think we're going to see interchanges along the VMP (owned by the city) long before we see any other interchanges on the 401 other than at Wonderland. At this point I don't think traffic levels in the south part of London yet warrant an interchange on Wonderland at the 401, and there are far more pressing issues with traffic flow in other parts of the city that are already built up.

Speaking of which, I saw the Hale-Trafalgar overpass last week. It's coming along really well!

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I think we're going to see interchanges along the VMP (owned by the city) long before we see any other interchanges on the 401 other than at Wonderland. At this point I don't think traffic levels in the south part of London yet warrant an interchange on Wonderland at the 401, and there are far more pressing issues with traffic flow in other parts of the city that are already built up.

I disagree. There is a real need for the Wonderland/401 junction for people living in the west end of the city.
-The Wonderland/402 junction provides access to 401 eastbound only. If you want to get on the 401 westbound you have to use Decker Drive (where Wonderland ends north of the 401) or go through Lambeth to access the Highway 4/401 interchange.

I can see interchanges on the VMP with Bradley and Hamilton starting construction by the end of the decade. Like the junction with Highbury, the Bradley/VMP interchange will probably be a half-cloverleaf, whereas the one with Hamilton will probably be a Parclo A2 or A4.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

I disagree. There is a real need for the Wonderland/401 junction for people living in the west end of the city.
-The Wonderland/402 junction provides access to 401 eastbound only. If you want to get on the 401 westbound you have to use Decker Drive (where Wonderland ends north of the 401) or go through Lambeth to access the Highway 4/401 interchange.

And that arrangment seems to work just fine at this point in time. One can also take the 402 westbound to Highway 4 and then go south to the 401. Traffic in Lambeth is not bad at all, compared to most of the city.

I'm not saying a Wonderland-401 interchange isn't needed but there are much bigger transportation issues in London right now that need attention. The interchange will be eventually important but there are multiple projects that should've been done 20-30 years ago that still need to be done, such as BRT and LRT, widening Wharncliffe/Western Road to four lanes, linking up Sarnia Road/Huron Street and Gainsborough/Windermere/Kilally Road, fixing the weekday congestion mess in parts of Byron, and widening Commissioners from Wonderland to Viscount to four lanes. The latter project will benefit Southwest London now far more than an interchange halfway to St. Thomas.

[haljackey]

No argument there, there are certainly much more important projects.

Just remember that the Ontario government (MTO) will cover most of the cost, and the federals might pitch in a bit too. Most funding for local road work is paid by the city.

[Kokkei Mizu]

Speaking about Wonderland, does anybody know if anything official has been planned for an interchange? I've heard people say within even the next 5 years, but was there a study done for the city?

[ForestryW]

It isn't planned in the current phase of highway construction (2008-2012) so if it does happen it won't be until 2013 at the earliest.

[haljackey]

I asked that very question to the city and here's the response I got.

Hi there (City of London), I was wondering if there have been any new developments regarding the planned Wonderland Road / Highway 401 interchange. I spent a while searching the city's website and the Ministry of Transportation's site but found nothing.

It would be a very useful access point for those living in west / southwest London!

Guess I'd better call Karl lol!

The MTO has identified improving Highway 401 between Highway 402 and Highway 4 somewhere in their mid-term plans. I'd expect this would include widening to 6 lanes, reconstructing the outdated Highway 4 junction and adding the Wonderland interchange.

It's still a ways out. Only way to make it happen faster is to get a mayoral candidate or something to "promise" to get it done sooner than later.


EDIT: Here's a PDF I got from http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ontroads/ that shows 401 plans for London:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/MPyGTAY...0401%20PDS.pdf
(you might have to register at the site to open the document)

[ForestryW]

^^Can't open the link for some reason.

Here's an outline of the MTO's Southern Highways Program, which details highway construction and maintenance projects over the period of 2008-2012.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...SOHP2008EN.pdf

(from: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...-construction/)

I once found a long-term highway expansion strategy published by the MTO, but I can't seem to dig that up again.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by van Hemessen

^^Can't open the link for some reason.

You might have to register at Ontroads to see it then.

I re-uploaded the document so you don't have to. Try this link:

http://pdfcast.org/download/401.pdf

[ForestryW]

Excellent, thanks!

I'd hesitate to call these "401 plans," but they are recommendations that will likely see fruition in the distant future. I still can't see any expansion or maintenance projects on London's section of the 401 for at least another five years, likely more.

[Kokkei Mizu]

It's still interesting to see what they recommend Wonderland and Highway 4 interchanges to be like in the future. And it's also interesting to note that the short-term recommendations made (widen to 6 lanes between 402 and Wellington, redo Wellington interchange) have been completed. So maybe Wonderland and Highway 4 aren't too far off...

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Kokkei Mizu

It's still interesting to see what they recommend Wonderland and Highway 4 interchanges to be like in the future. And it's also interesting to note that the short-term recommendations made (widen to 6 lanes between 402 and Wellington, redo Wellington interchange) have been completed. So maybe Wonderland and Highway 4 aren't too far off...

Could be as early as 2013 according to the MTO, could be at least a decade away according to the COL. Guess we gotta wait until official word is given.

Reconstructing the Highway 4 cloverleaf is going to be hell. The roads run semi-parallel so it's a tricky loop system to replicate. That's why they're opting for a super-long NB-WB loop in the new design. I think it will work out nicely when it's done, but it will take a long time to reconstruct the thing. Good thing there's no dense development nearby.

The sooner they start the better.

[Kokkei Mizu]

Does anybody know if there's a timeline for Bradley and Hamilton to get their interchanges with VMP?

[haljackey]

Last I heard is that construction is at least a decade away.

The MTO doesn't recommend an interchange with Bradley as it is too close to the 401 junction. This would cause weaving.
-Have you ever driven on Highbury between Bradley and the 401? There's a third lane there on the right where cars have to merge on from Bradley and merge off to access Highway 401 westbound. That's a textbook example of weaving and it can be really dangerous.

See this video I made for the section I'm referring to. (It's between 0:30 and 0:34)
• Video Link



I think the City of London still wants a junction at VMP/Bradley but it will be a lot further back to minimize the weaving. A long half-cloverleaf might do the trick if the loop ramps are placed as far north as possible.

Hamilton Road will have a Parclo A-4 design. That's what's proposed for now.

Unfortunately I don't have any documents on my hard drive right now regarding these junctions. Try doing a search on the city website for documents related to the topic.

[Kokkei Mizu]

Originally Posted by haljackey

-Have you ever driven on Highbury between Bradley and the 401? There's a third lane there on the right where cars have to merge on from Bradley and merge off to access Highway 401 westbound. That's a textbook example of weaving and it can be really dangerous.

I have and I don't believe it's too bad. The ramp is quite a bit longer than on cloverleafs where weaving is especially bad. I'm sure they can figure out a solution to add a similar interchange that Bradley has with Highbury, to VMP.

And I have seen your video before. I'm actually subscribed to your channel.

[haljackey]

Here's a photo I took of Highway 401 in London, looking west from the Highway 4 overpass:


The Highway 4/401 interchange is one of the last cloverleafs left in the province of Ontario. It should have been converted to a parclo a long time ago, but the geometry of the area makes reconstruction difficult.

Satellite image (2006) from Google Earth:


Here is what is planned. The reconstruction will probably include widening the 401 to six lanes and adding a new interchange with Wonderland road to the east.






A GIF of the reconstruction. I'm not sure why this GIF doesn't include one of the loop ramps of the existing cloverleaf. :nuts:


Wonderland Road interchange. Residents in west London can access Highway 401 eastbound via Highway 402, but lack good access to the 401 westbound. This interchange will fix this.


Not sure when construction will start, but it will probably take a few years to complete.