Philadelphian Politics

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Skintreesnail

I agree that sweeping on every block doesn't make sense, especially the narrow streets. Getting the city to at least do sweeping on the major thoroughfares will be a huge improvement. A lot of the litter on the smaller blocks comes from trash getting blown around from the larger streets. There are also obvious problem areas that have collected huge piles of trash over the years that just need a one-time cleaning and more prevention around illegal dumping.

I think there also needs to be a push for more community involvement as well. Encouraging residents to participate will foster more respect for the cleanliness of their neighborhood. This can be done by just having more cleanup days through out the year. Right now it's very hard to organize block cleanups based on the timeline (I think just a couple days a year) and everyone's schedule, not to mention that the city doesn't really make it easy collecting the trash that gets bagged (you need to walk it several blocks in some cases to a pickup point).



That graph on page 19 explains a lot about the state of the streets. I wonder if the funds got hit from the recession and then never made it back or did they just get diverted to other things. In any case, I'm looking forward to 22nd finally getting paved.

The neighborhoods alone have been responsible for trying to keep up with the trash for years. To imply they don't care is preposterous. They're overwhelmed.

The city should be sweeping EVERY SINGLE STREET regardless of size.

It will give people the bandwidth to tackle more amorphorous, less defined areas.

When I lived on Brown Street, I swept my block every couple of weeks...not just the sidewalk, but also the gutters. Guess what I would have had time to do if I weren't doing the city's job for 10 years? I probably would have walked down to the 95 underpasses to clean up the unmaintained areas there. Or picked weeds out of people's unmaintained tree pits. Or done a scan of the few blocks around me to make sure there wasn't trash in vacant lots, etc.

The reality of it is that I never got to those things because I could barely keep up with what was happening in front of my door.

[mcgrath618]

Rhynhart has my vote if she runs. Anyone who audits the PPA is qualified in my book.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by cardeza

There was no way you were getting full sweeping in first term- they dont even have enough equipment to make that possible. Staff and machinery don't just appear out of thin air after a politician makes a promise. Its a similar story with the paving- one reason for the less than adequate paving output each year was the amount of staff and paving equipment available. They had to add personnel and purchase new equipment such that 3 paving crews could operate simultaneously during the summer months.

Kenney did next to nothing on street cleaning until his last year where they slapped together a pathetic pilot. His inaction and ability to deliver is inexcusable. He didn’t deserve a second term.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by cardeza

The issue you are describing only pertained to very narrow streets in the target zones- it was not an issue for most of the trial areas. And in the 30 years ive been around there has never been universal street cleaning- there was some seasonal cleaning on CERTAIN major avenues until Nutter cut it. People need to be honest about what we actually had and what exists in other cities- cleaning every single block in Philly would be expensive and frankly illogical considering it's not really needed on many residential blocks in the "nicer" areas.

I don’t accept your answer on what’s logical and what’s not. Considering we have some of the highest taxes of any city, there should be no excuse for the city being able to deliver on basic services like: quality roads, clean streets, fixed sidewalks, etc. if that benchmark is too high then adjust your standards or they need to cut taxes to meet the low quality of city services that are provided.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Justin7

If this is how you respond to good news...

Jesus Christ, street cleaning is no where near as complicated as healthcare or education so let’s put his inability to perform into perspective. I’m not going to pat Kenney on the back and say “good job” for delivering a campaign promise, at least, 4-6 years later than originally promised, especially when there are tons of other city’s that already do this (hence we are just copying their programs and setting it up here.). This wasn’t that hard to do. The reality is he didn’t WANT to do it bc he took the political hit from the soda tax.

Given his track record, I doubt he will even have a full city program by 2023.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

I don’t accept your answer on what’s logical and what’s not. Considering we have some of the highest taxes of any city, there should be no excuse for the city being able to deliver on basic services like: quality roads, clean streets, fixed sidewalks, etc. if that benchmark is too high then adjust your standards or they need to cut taxes to meet the low quality of city services that are provided.

This.

Of course not every street needs to be cleaned every single week. St Martins Lane in Chestnut Hill doesn't need a weekly sweep. But it should at least get one once or twice a month.

It's not just about litter. It's about leaves, excess road salt and sand that build up over the course of winter, etc. Because the gutters are never cleaned of this stuff is why we get my favorite version of fauna specific to Philadelphia: Road Weed.

Nothing like having to go into your street with a shovel every year to literally shovel dirt from the gutters because there's a years worth of decomposted leaves, sand, and runoff in your gutter.

Again, this disappears with normal road sweeping.

Our expectations are so so low. For sure, some of you have never lived anywhere else with normal municipal services.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Jesus Christ, street cleaning is no where near as complicated as healthcare or education so let’s put his inability to perform into perspective. I’m not going to pat Kenney on the back and say “good job” for delivering a campaign promise, at least, 4-6 years later than originally promised, especially when there are tons of other city’s that already do this (hence we are just copying their programs and setting it up here.). This wasn’t that hard to do. The reality is he didn’t WANT to do it bc he took the political hit from the soda tax.

Given his track record, I doubt he will even have a full city program by 2023.

Hasn't the pilot program been going on for over a year now?

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Just for future reference. No one cares to hear "ScreamShatter" opine on politics. Just keep in mind, you don't have to post every goddamn thought rolling around in your head. Socialists taking over philly... jesus christ.

It's incredible how some people just can't help themselves.

Umm...socialists did make an attempt to take over Philly politics though, literally.

Did you not see all the 3rd party Working Class Party on the ballot to try to prevent any Republicans being on City Council? That was a strategy pushed by the progressive group that backs Bernie. So I get what I said wasn’t stated in the best way (we all vent sometimes), but the foundations of my point are factual.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Hasn't the pilot program been going on for over a year now?

You mean blowing trash around everywhere with leaf blowers?

The Fairmount Neighborhood conservancy group does a better job of cleaning than the city itself. For that matter, so does Schuykill Yards: they have mini street-sweepers going around every week cleaning everything up, and they haven't even built any buildings yet!

I agree with ScreamShatter FWIW. Where the hell is all of that money going?

[Skintreesnail]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

The neighborhoods alone have been responsible for trying to keep up with the trash for years. To imply they don't care is preposterous. They're overwhelmed.

The city should be sweeping EVERY SINGLE STREET regardless of size.

It will give people the bandwidth to tackle more amorphorous, less defined areas.

When I lived on Brown Street, I swept my block every couple of weeks...not just the sidewalk, but also the gutters. Guess what I would have had time to do if I weren't doing the city's job for 10 years? I probably would have walked down to the 95 underpasses to clean up the unmaintained areas there. Or picked weeds out of people's unmaintained tree pits. Or done a scan of the few blocks around me to make sure there wasn't trash in vacant lots, etc.

The reality of it is that I never got to those things because I could barely keep up with what was happening in front of my door.

I never meant to imply that people don't care. I'm just saying that the city should be making it easier for us to help keep our blocks clean by increasing the number of city-supported cleanup days in addition to street sweeping. I'm assuming that street sweeping won't eliminate the issues with the sidewalks and alleys being covered in leaves and trash. That said, I've lived in Graduate Hospital for 10 years and I don't see everyone sweeping their entire block, including the rotting leaves and trash in the gutter, every couple weeks as you described. I don't do it, I don't really expect anyone else to do it, and that's sort of the point. People shouldn't feel like they need to consistently clean anything outside their own property. But not everyone always has the time to keep everything immaculate constantly and having an event where everyone is out there at once encourages more people to participate or acts as a reminder of sorts. It's more social and makes the work more enjoyable. Also, some of the less defined areas you mentioned that aren't covered by the future sweeping program can be addressed.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Hasn't the pilot program been going on for over a year now?

He campaigned on a full street sweeping program to be rolled out by 2020. He didn’t deliver. And the pilot was mostly slapped together to appease people who were angry about his inaction. And in the rush to roll out a pilot to declare victory, they bought a million dollar sweeper that was the wrong size to go down many of the roads in the pilot areas.

Im glad we are getting a program. But we should have had this years ago. They could have done phases to slowly implement as example below:
Year 1: Create budgets for community groups to purchase leaf blowers
Year 2: Pilot truck sweeping in select areas
Year 3: Rollout sidewalk sweepers throughout 50% of city once a month.
Year 4: Rollout street sweeping trucks across city based on results from pilot.

We aren’t talking rocket science here. This program is basic need, not a heavy lift to implement. And honestly, after seeing sidewalks littered with needles and trash around children’s playgrounds, families in this city deserve politicians who are going to fight to implement positive changes in a timely manner, and not just kick the can down the road because it was politically inconvenient for him after the sugar tax blowback. If that makes me the bad person for wanting kids to have clean streets to play, I’m okay with that as situations like Philly having Hep A outbreaks because of lack of street sanitation or Flint not having clean water are absolutely inexcusable. We shouldn’t except subpar status quo.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Skintreesnail

I never meant to imply that people don't care. I'm just saying that the city should be making it easier for us to help keep our blocks clean by increasing the number of city-supported cleanup days in addition to street sweeping. I'm assuming that street sweeping won't eliminate the issues with the sidewalks and alleys being covered in leaves and trash. That said, I've lived in Graduate Hospital for 10 years and I don't see everyone sweeping their entire block, including the rotting leaves and trash in the gutter, every couple weeks as you described. I don't do it, I don't really expect anyone else to do it, and that's sort of the point. People shouldn't feel like they need to consistently clean anything outside their own property. But not everyone always has the time to keep everything immaculate constantly and having an event where everyone is out there at once encourages more people to participate or acts as a reminder of sorts. It's more social and makes the work more enjoyable. Also, some of the less defined areas you mentioned that aren't covered by the future sweeping program can be addressed.

I guess we're saying sort of the same thing.

My only point would be that I'd argue this is all the more reason to clean every street.

Because when you do have community slash miscellaneous events, they can focus the areas out of the purview of street sweepers. That is, places that are not streets.

Today, most of those cleanups focus on simply street sweeps because the city isn't doing it otherwise.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

When I lived on Brown Street, I swept my block every couple of weeks...not just the sidewalk, but also the gutters. Guess what I would have had time to do if I weren't doing the city's job for 10 years? I probably would have walked down to the 95 underpasses to clean up the unmaintained areas there. Or picked weeds out of people's unmaintained tree pits. Or done a scan of the few blocks around me to make sure there wasn't trash in vacant lots, etc.

Drink!

(Am I the only one playing this game?)

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I guess we're saying sort of the same thing.

My only point would be that I'd argue this is all the more reason to clean every street.

Because when you do have community slash miscellaneous events, they can focus the areas out of the purview of street sweepers. That is, places that are not streets.

Today, most of those cleanups focus on simply street sweeps because the city isn't doing it otherwise.

Totally agree with both of you on these points. And also agree the city/community partnership is the best model.

We’ve been cleaning our street for years too. Bought a leaf blower to herd the trash, pressure wash the streets once a year to remove sediment, pick up street trash weekly, etc. It’s a lot of work, and there’s no help maintaining it so it sits in our shoulders and hoping more neighbors do it. Then we end up with our sewers filling up with trash and sediment which causes water backup, sink holes, etc.

Tying this back to development — more houses get built, less places for water to soak into the ground and then sewers not able to support the water bc of the trash and dirt clogging the drains. All this stuff is tied together.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

^Amen, that guy is pretty triggered. I noticed "Dread---" was banned, tensions are running high on the old SSP boards!

Nah, that was just a sockpuppet of a previously-banned account.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Umm...socialists did make an attempt to take over Philly politics though, literally.

Did you not see all the 3rd party Working Class Party on the ballot to try to prevent any Republicans being on City Council? That was a strategy pushed by the progressive group that backs Bernie. So I get what I said wasn’t stated in the best way (we all vent sometimes), but the foundations of my point are factual.

You don't seem to understand what a socialist is... or really anything for that matter. So again, this board is not the place for your political theories. You should really be writing about politics on your facebook page and then your nieces and nephews can block you and ignore you at holiday gatherings as was meant to be.

Believe it or not, you can criticize kenney and bitch about street sweeping all without making up stories about grad students and getting into the political weeds and starting an avalanche of bullshit.

[SEFTA]

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by allovertown

You don't seem to understand what a socialist is... or really anything for that matter. So again, this board is not the place for your political theories. You should really be writing about politics on your facebook page and then your nieces and nephews can block you and ignore you at holiday gatherings as was meant to be.

Believe it or not, you can criticize kenney and bitch about street sweeping all without making up stories about grad students and getting into the political weeds and starting an avalanche of bullshit.

Your post is nasty. I’m hurt. Please apologize as that’s not the behavior we want on this forum.

My points are based on facts, not theories. See below for a little reference since you seem to not be in the know on many topics.

3rd Parties Want To Knock Republicans Out of Philly Gov: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...sible/1977669/

Working Class Party: “The Working Families Party is a labor-aligned third party that was established in New York in 1998. It grew in national prominence during the Occupy protests of 2011, and then again in 2015 when Sen. Bernie Sanders (Ind., Vt.) first brought his brand of democratic socialism to mainstream presidential politics. The party now has chapters in 20 states.” https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20191106.html

Feel free to do some research yourself about Kenney’s campaign promises in 2015, and how he pivoted off street cleaning after the sugar tax fight by saying people didn’t want to move their cars. Look it up. You’ll see, like it or not, I’m right.

Btw. I’m not anti-socialist. I’m simply stating a fact that they are taking over Philly with election of Krasner and multiple new people on council, and the Philly Progressives (a Bernie-favoring group) is actively organizing to increase progressives in government and sweep out people like Allen Domb. Those are facts. If it rattles your cage then your fight is with history books instead of me. Sadly, the grad student story isn’t a lie either — sorry if the truth disappoints you. I stand by my comments 100% so unless you have constructive feedback on anything I’ve factually misrepresented, please keep the trolling on your Twitter account as it’s not appropriate on this board.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by allovertown

You don't seem to understand what a socialist is... or really anything for that matter. So again, this board is not the place for your political theories. You should really be writing about politics on your facebook page and then your nieces and nephews can block you and ignore you at holiday gatherings as was meant to be.

Believe it or not, you can criticize kenney and bitch about street sweeping all without making up stories about grad students and getting into the political weeds and starting an avalanche of bullshit.

Wow, I think you are falling into the same mud hole that you are saying he is falling into--------

Has there been any discussion about having to move cars as part of any practical street cleaning program? The City runs a big ass street cleaner down Chester Ave. once ever week or so and since theres cars parked just about everywhere legal or not this is a complete sham. The City can include this in any claim they might make about street cleaning, but in reality its 90% useless and a waste of City money. Theres very little to pick up in the middle of the street.

In terms of what our dear mayor is promising remember that 4 years ago he 'promised' to make Phila. a shinning model for how preservation could be done. Does anybody think things have improved, please raise your hand.

At least in my good extremely liberal, to kind to everyone, feed the stray cats, neighborhood I think the idea of having to move your car one morning a week would sink like a lead balloon. But of course people still want the City to clean the streets. I think the City acknowledges this fact that people won't move their cars when they ask people to bag their leaves and take them to corners in Nov. and Dec. instead of just dumping them in the curb like the good old days.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Wow, I think you are falling into the same mud hole that you are saying he is falling into--------

Has there been any discussion about having to move cars as part of any practical street cleaning program? The City runs a big ass street cleaner down Chester Ave. once ever week or so and since theres cars parked just about everywhere legal or not this is a complete sham. The City can include this in any claim they might make about street cleaning, but in reality its 90% useless and a waste of City money. Theres very little to pick up in the middle of the street.

In terms of what our dear mayor is promising remember that 4 years ago he 'promised' to make Phila. a shinning model for how preservation could be done. Does anybody think things have improved, please raise your hand.

At least in my good extremely liberal, to kind to everyone, feed the stray cats, neighborhood I think the idea of having to move your car one morning a week would sink like a lead balloon. But of course people still want the City to clean the streets. I think the City acknowledges this fact that people won't move their cars when they ask people to bag their leaves and take them to corners in Nov. and Dec. instead of just dumping them in the curb like the good old days.

People will move their cars when they get ticketed $25.

Or they can just drive to work that day. Or they can drive their car to the next neighborhood which won't have street cleaning that day and leave the car for a few days until they want to go back and get it.

It's not that difficult. It's not like every neighborhood in the entire city will be cleaning simultaneously and thus you will have literally nowhere to park. You'll probably have to drive a half mile to the next neighborhood and then gasp, walk your fat *ss back to your sofa which will take all of 15 minutes.