Old Halifax

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Hmmm, very interesting observation! All the ground-floor openings in this image are identical in relative location and dimensions as the image with the Hollis Tavern:


I think that would be too much of a coincidence if they were separate buildings. It looks very much to me like they removed floor 3 and 4, and refurbed floor 2.

As mentioned above, there is the difference in brickwork as well, so I'm still a little puzzled by it. I'll keep looking, though, you never know what you might find...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Further to the discussion about the Tex Park block, here are some photos of Salter Street, where the Metro Park is now located. Source: Halifax Municipal Archives, date: 1960.







It's also interesting to see what was on the other side of Salter, where the Sheraton Four Points is now located:


Halifax Municipal Archives

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It's also interesting to see what was on the other side of Salter, where the Sheraton Four Points is now located:

I believe that was a MT&T building. Even after it was demolished a stub of the lower walls was in Maritime Centre's loading dock for years. I would guess the stack of windows that are offset in terms of height must have been in a stairwell.

These photos of DT Halifax in the '50s and '60s really show how much of it was pretty bad.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

... These photos of DT Halifax in the '50s and '60s really show how much of it was pretty bad.

Yeah - looks the city looks pretty terrible.

[teddifax]

Downtown Halifax is so vastly improved. It used to be dirty and dangerous (the piers and the entire waterfront that were accessible to the public were in horrible shape). Many of the buildings to which the pictures can attest were also in bad shape. When the first tall ships happened, the piers and the waterfront had not yet been upgraded. I remember ruining a pair of pants sitting on a creosoted pier. The waterfront now is amazing and continues to get better.

[DT Hfx]

Gee, the city I have come to love looked so depressing in the old days as reflected in those pictures.
I wonder is that just the way things were back then? I would guess most cities must have been dirty and disgusting back then and maybe gave impetus to outward migration to suburbia.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by DT Hfx

Gee, the city I have come to love looked so depressing in the old days as reflected in those pictures.
I wonder is that just the way things were back then? I would guess most cities must have been dirty and disgusting back then and maybe gave impetus to outward migration to suburbia.

Halifax probably had a particularly unique, downtrodden port town feel, but yeah, I think this is true. I'm sure everyone on here has seen photos of Canadian cities in the '70s/'80s, like these photos of dodgy Toronto.









It seems to just have been kind of a grey, depressed time for North American urbanism.

[OldDartmouthMark]

IMHO, this lends credence to the information I've read regarding Halifax being somewhat worn out at the end of the Second World War, and the economy pretty much following the ups and downs of military activity at those times.

The city being used and abused during wartime combined with the drop in the economy as military activity dropped off led to a lot of the city being left in its run-down state and not 'fixed up' until the urban renewal drive of the 1950s and 1960s, which unfortunately took some more significant salvageable heritage buildings along with those run-down buildings.

Posters who are more well-versed in economics and history than I can probably tell it more succinctly, though.

One anecdote that sticks in mind is that the street car system was so worn out after the war that it all needed pretty much complete replacement or refurbishment. This is what led to the electric bus system that started in 1949.

Additionally, one must remember that the air contained more pollutants back then, as many people burned coal or wood to heat their homes. Also, the downtown area was home to a lot more industrial sites and stack emissions were much dirtier as well. There were other sources such as the power station, steam locomotives (until about 1960), ships, etc.

So, the dirty, grimy look that is being noted in the photos would be a cumulative effect of wear, neglect, fallout from pollution, etc.

Photos from the era help illustrate the difference in air quality of the times vs today:

https://novascotia.ca/archives/Denni...es.asp?ID=2383


https://novascotia.ca/archives/MacAs...ves.asp?ID=860

[OldDartmouthMark]

Here's another photo showing the Tex Park/Metro Park block in 1941 taken from a high point on Bedford Row (Dominion Public Building or old Post Office?):



https://novascotia.ca/archives/EastC...ves.asp?ID=520

Zooming into the desired block gives a view the north and east (Hollis and Sackville Street) sides:

[OldDartmouthMark]

One bonus of this photo is that it helps locate some of the other buildings previously shown in this thread.

[DT Hfx]

Old Dartmouth, you are an adept "buildings-genealogy" detective!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

IMHO, this lends credence to the information I've read regarding Halifax being somewhat worn out at the end of the Second World War, and the economy pretty much following the ups and downs of military activity at those times.

The city being used and abused during wartime combined with the drop in the economy as military activity dropped off led to a lot of the city being left in its run-down state and not 'fixed up' until the urban renewal drive of the 1950s and 1960s, which unfortunately took some more significant salvageable heritage buildings along with those run-down buildings.

Posters who are more well-versed in economics and history than I can probably tell it more succinctly, though.

The city's economy was booming tremendously in the 1940's, 50's, and 60's. There wasn't really a post-war slump. The population of metro Halifax grew by about 40% in the 50's alone, faster than any Canadian cities are growing today, and one of the fastest in Canada back then too.

I think the two big reasons why downtown looked so rough were its industrial nature and the focus on suburban development in the metropolitan area. Not that the economy in general was weak. There was also a focus on all-or-nothing large scale urban renewal schemes like you mentioned. The side-effect of this is that some areas were completely rebuilt and others were neglected. It probably would have been better to have more fine-grained investment that focused partly on improving some of these older buildings, but that wasn't in fashion after WWII.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

The city's economy was booming tremendously in the 1940's, 50's, and 60's. There wasn't really a post-war slump. The population of metro Halifax grew by about 40% in the 50's alone, faster than any Canadian cities are growing today, and one of the fastest in Canada back then too.

I think the two big reasons why downtown looked so rough were its industrial nature and the focus on suburban development in the metropolitan area. Not that the economy in general was weak. There was also a focus on all-or-nothing large scale urban renewal schemes like you mentioned. The side-effect of this is that some areas were completely rebuilt and others were neglected. It probably would have been better to have more fine-grained investment that focused partly on improving some of these older buildings, but that wasn't in fashion after WWII.

Thanks someone123. Do you have a good source for economic information from the post war period in Halifax? I was looking for specific information on the economy but could not find anything readily on the internet - that said, economics have never been a strong interest of mine and thus not a field of expertise.

However, I was going off the housing crisis during the war, where Halifax was so overcrowded that people were having a hard time finding places to live. IIRC, there was even an ad campaign aimed at discouraging people from coming to Halifax during the war for lack of living accommodations. As a result of that, prices were up and I'm sure motivation to spend money on upkeep was down, given that there wasn't any need to make things more attractive to draw in potential renters.

Beyond that, I was under the impression that as war operations declined, a lot of those who were drawn to the city for work went elsewhere, or at least the skilled workers who would follow the promise of good paying jobs due to the industrial boom in Ontario. I don't recall hearing about any particular economic boom in Halifax, but that is just from living here and hearing the talk of older people as I hadn't been born yet in the immediate post war period.

I will say, from reading council minutes from the time, that the attitude seemed to be that if it were old and dingy that the best result is to tear it down and build anew rather than invest in renovations or improvements. That was specifically the case with the Tex Park block. I'm thinking that this attitude would be more in keeping with a healthier economy, if there was enough funding available to build new rather than mess around with an old building.

I guess it's also important to remember that these were the days of the Harbour Drive proposal, which also would have helped the decline of some downtown neighbourhoods.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by DT Hfx

Old Dartmouth, you are an adept "buildings-genealogy" detective!

Ha! Thanks, but my motivation is mostly just personal, trying to put together the puzzle of what used to be there to gain some perspective of where we were and where we're going.

But it's more enjoyable when I can share my interest, for sure!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Thanks someone123. Do you have a good source for economic information from the post war period in Halifax? I was looking for specific information on the economy but could not find anything readily on the internet - that said, economics have never been a strong interest of mine and thus not a field of expertise.

The demographics come from the "historical populations" list here (which is an amalgam of CMA figures and totals for similar geographic boundaries in earlier decades): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifa...a#Demographics

I don't have a good source for things like labour force characteristics from the 1940's or 50's, but population growth is a pretty good proxy for how well things were going economically. Even in the 1800's, people tended to move away more when the economy wasn't doing as well. Halifax's lowest-growth period on the list was the 1920's. followed by the 1890's and 1880's.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I guess it's also important to remember that these were the days of the Harbour Drive proposal, which also would have helped the decline of some downtown neighbourhoods.

Or that the Harbour Drive proposal was the result of a dirty, rundown and decrepit area that was considered not worth saving.

[IanWatson]

Mark, that's an amazing image!! Downtown has really evolved over the years.

It's been really eye-opening for me going through the archive images. They really do help understand how officials and residents of the day could look at these buildings and think they were better off tearing them down. At the same time it's frustrating because--with the benefit of hindsight--I can also see how many of these buildings would have made amazing restorations today. Can you imagine how much demand there would be for lofts in some of those industrial buildings?

It really makes me wonder about other areas of the city that we currently write off as undesirable. We've seen it in my lifetime with the Gottingen area. Where next?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Or that the Harbour Drive proposal was the result of a dirty, rundown and decrepit area that was considered not worth saving.

Quite possibly there was influence both ways, but I thought the Harbour Drive concept was created due to a perceived need to move people around more efficiently, by car, and not just an excuse to tear down old buildings.

My impression is that it was the 'build it and they will come' line of thought - that if you made it easier and more efficient for people to get in and out of the downtown, then business will flourish. Scotia Square and Cogswell was part of that, and to a lesser extent but on the same line of thinking, Tex Park. Downtown residential didn't seem to be considered much in all of this - it was all about business (much the same as most other city downtowns at the time).

The 'slum clearance' movement was parallel to that, but had they not seen a need to increase traffic, then the Harbour Drive plan might just as easily been an office skyscraper plan or something else not road related.

Personally, I'm happy that we didn't lose our waterfront as it has become somewhat of an attraction for Halifax, for both locals and tourists - something that apparently wasn't imagined back in the day.

[DT Hfx]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

--with the benefit of hindsight--I can also see how many of these buildings would have made amazing restorations today. Can you imagine how much demand there would be for lofts in some of those industrial buildings?

It really makes me wonder about other areas of the city that we currently write off as undesirable. We've seen it in my lifetime with the Gottingen area. Where next?

Yes, it is sad we lost so many grand old buildings. It is also unfortunate that sociologists deemed this rejuvenation process a bad thing and called it Gentrification.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

The demographics come from the "historical populations" list here (which is an amalgam of CMA figures and totals for similar geographic boundaries in earlier decades): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifa...a#Demographics

I don't have a good source for things like labour force characteristics from the 1940's or 50's, but population growth is a pretty good proxy for how well things were going economically. Even in the 1800's, people tended to move away more when the economy wasn't doing as well. Halifax's lowest-growth period on the list was the 1920's. followed by the 1890's and 1880's.

In searching further, I found this article about the housing crisis in Halifax during WWII.

It gives a really good perspective on what happened to housing during the war, and additionally about how so many buildings became run down. A good read if you have a few minutes.