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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 2:58 PM
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The Great Canadian Car-Lite Thread: Tips & Tricks

This is a thread for sharing tips and tricks to getting about without a car.

<Storytime>
I never got my license. I've pushed it off so long, that statistically, I'll probably never get it.

The summer of my 16th, I worked my first proper summer job as a dishwasher, earning what seemed to be the princely sum of $3000. It was enough to either pay an entire solo backpacking adventure abroad the next summer, but not enough for a trip and driving lessons, which had been made mandatory the year before. So I went to Europe. And every year since, I've either had better things to spend $1500 on (that was basically my yearly food budget in university), or better things to do with the 40 hours of course time.

As I settled down and entered my mid-20s, it's just kinda fallen off my to-do list. At this point, I've entered adulthood without a car, and have grown accustomed to the workarounds that come with living without a vehicle in a country which assumes that everyone does.
</storytime>



So over the years, I've developed a bunch of these workarounds for living car-free in a car-full world, but I'm constantly discovering new ones. And there's an increasing portion of the population - especially the ~ y o u t h s s s ~ - who are delaying or entirely putting off their licenses or vehicle ownership for various reasons. I think it'd be cool to share these hints and tips.

This isn't meant to be a thread to discuss the pros and cons of car-full, car-lite, or car-free living. It's totally fine to like cars or enjoy driving. A lot of car-free people I know are really into cars, in the same way as most people into spaceships don't have one themselves.


So what trips do you do without a car? How do you go about it?
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 3:00 PM
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Getting around the city


Bicycle

Getting an e-bike pushed my license from "I'll get around to it" to "probably not". It fills the gap of trips which are too challenging to bike happily, but slow by transit. It's all just blisfully easy - everything feels like a slight downhill.

I got a very sensible, low-maintenance $1500 bike from Benelli. I wanted something practical, discreet, but also something that I could look classy on riding in my best work clothes. Cars aren't the only fashion statements

In the city, it's made cycling much more practical. At 35 km/h and without traffic or parking, it's usually as fast as driving, and much faster at rush. I've also become much more comfortable rolling in urban traffic since I can keep usually up, even when going uphill or starting from a red light. That said, I'm still a pretty nervous rider so I avoid any traffic going faster than 50 if I can.

I'd say that the pedal-assist has been the single most transformative piece of mobility for me. It turned car-free living from a temporary cirmustance to a practical and valid option for me.



Getting out of town

I remember when I told my grandparents that I'd be going to Europe and putting off my license. They looked at me like I'd just casually mentionned that I'd be knawing off my legs.
"But what if you want to go into the country?"
For a while, I just figured that not getting out of town was just the reasonable price to pay for not owning a vehicle. And I was okay with that. I don't often feel the need to run into the wilderness.

Many people who drive take it for granted that they can access nature, but for a long time, it was basically the other side of Mars for me. I could literally get to Paris faster and more easily than I could reach a cottage. But in the last little while, I've been discovering that's not actually the case

Day Trips

Whereas I never much left the city because of the poor regional transit, having an electric bike has allowed me to make day trips within a 50-km radius without sweating it. Getting to head into the Gatineau Park or up the Ottawa Valley has been such a discovery for me. Putting the gear in my basket, I even got to go camping for the first time since I was a kid.

Cottaging

My latest discovery is that some of VIA's routes allow for stop/pickup requests anywhere along the tracks. I can take the train from Ottawa to Montreal, then up to the picturesque cottage country of La Mauricie, north-east of Montreal. I'd actually booked a cabin only a stone's throw from the tracks in Lac-aux-Sables, a cheap $30 from Montreal. Unfortunately, this was right as covid was happening, so I'll have to save it for another time. But I can't overstate how much of a revelation it is to realize that I can go cottaging easily. Until this year, I just accepted that it wasn't for me. But with the VIA option, it's not only possible, but even appealing. The idea of being able to get dropped off and picked up right at the cottage without having to worry about driving or traffic is a dream.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 3:01 PM
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Shopping

Hauling has become a lot easier with the electric bicycle. With an oversized basket in the back, I carry $150 grocery runs without difficulty over several kilometres without thinking twice about it. I've recently inherited an old bike trailer too, which opens the door to proper Cosco-sized hauls.

Other times, I opt for transit. Gatineau's BRT system is rather dismal on the whole. But the one advantage of the City cheaping out and running it through the middle of nowhere where no one lives is that it actually gets you to a lot of big box stores. The Walmart, Costco, Canadian Tire, Home Depot, etc. are all within easy walking distance of frequent rapid transit. I've occasionally gotten the stink eye from the bus driver as I carry renovation materials onto the bus (including some 4x12 foot sheets of trellis recently), but I've not been denied yet!


Commuting

My commute is only about 3-4 km, so I generally take my bike. I would use transit more often, but the lack of priority measures in downtown Ottawa/Hull means that walking is often faster than driving or bussing, and cycling takes a third as long as either. With mostly separated infrastructure and without any traffic, I find my commute very enjoyable and relaxing.

The pedal assist is great for going in my work clothes without getting sweaty. I feel like having to take 15 minutes to change and shower at my destination kinda defeats the purpose of getting there quickly.
I still have to take care not to get my nice clothes wet or dirty in the snow or rain though. I've found a practical combo which is fast to put on/off, keeps me fully dry, and still looks respectable:
- a pair of discreet rain pants which zip up so they can be removed quickly without taking off my shoes
- a rain trenchcoat that goes down well below the waist
- boot rubbers to protect my footwear

I'm lucky enough to work in a building with protected bicycle parking. It's not glamorous, but it's right by the door, keypass-controlled, and protected from the rain.


Cross-town

I use transit almost exclusively for longer distances (>10km), or in conjuction with my bicycle. Using both really makes all the difference in terms of trip time. As soon as an origin or desgination is further than a 10-minute walk from frequent, traffic-free transit, it just becomes annoyingly slow, if not entirely impractical. But bringing a bike aboard brings almost the whole city within range; In Ottawa, you're never much more than 3 km away from a frequent transit line on either end. Just walking+transit means that I've got to budget as much as 60 minutes of walking on top of the transit trip, but taking a bike brings that down to 20. Even just bringing a push scooter (I know, the shame. Don't judge me) makes trips easier, even if I feel like a bit of a dork doing it. But hey, apparently scooters are become hip now? I occasionally see middle-aged people in sharp office attire crossing the bridge at rush hour.

Unfortunately, not all buses have bike racks, and they only have them for part of the year. The winter is honestly when I'd be most inclined to use transit to limit the time I spend in the cold on my bike, and my bike to limit the time I spend walking in the cold. I'm looking forward to when Ottawa and Gatineau's LRT systems are built out and I can always take my bike aboard.


Winter

This is where I'm going to sound like a crazy person. I know, because until last year, whenever someone told me that they did winter cycling, my eyes would glaze over. Winter cycling was up there with Sharon's new low-fat vegan keto diet. But moving to a new place just outside downtown kinda forced me into it. The distance to work is too far to walk every day, and transit and driving are both absolute shit-shows throughout the winter. Every other option was impractical, so it didn't make sense not to try it.

To my surprise, it was shockingly normal. For some reason, "winter cycling" always sounded like its own separate thing with special equipment and physics, but it's really just biking, but in the winter. Same as walking in the winter, or driving in the winter. With just winter tires and zip-up snowpants, I was good to go. You have to be a bit more careful and you get cold, but that's no different from walking, driving, or taking the bus in the winter. I'd compare biking in the winter to walking in the winter, but faster. It's much better to be out in the cold for 15 minutes on a bike rather than 45 on foot.

There are many bike trips which are possible in the summer which aren't in the winter. Although a lot of the network of paths is cleared, a lot of it isn't. Taking the sidewalk on dangerous roads isn't possible in most places either because of poor clearing at intersections. But many of the major routes are quite passable, and I find that most low-traffic streets are adequately cleared. I'd say that I can still do 70-80% of my normal trips, mostly those within a 5 km radius, representing 90+% of my regular needs (work, shops, activities).
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 5:11 PM
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I have a car, but drive it less than 1000km/yr.

Living Downtown, 95% of things are within a 5-15mins walk and for those other things I use carshare, bike lanes, bus/LRT.

Yes, in Edmonton...and through winter.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 6:31 PM
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We went 3 years with a single car in Toronto, though I bought one for myself in January when we moved to Hamilton.

The car was primarily my wife's, so I rarely used it other than for grocery runs and on weekends when visiting family and the cottage.

I pretty much biked everywhere. Bike-share was a huge help on this I found, perfect for one way trips and for using a multitude of modes. The thing with using a personal bike is as soon as you leave the house with it, you are stuck with using it until you return home.

Bike share allowed me to bike to a buddies house, hang out, go out to a few bars in a different part of town, then bike home without having to go back and pick up my bike. Or bike to work, take a taxi with co-workers to a meeting, then bike home right from the meeting. Etc., Etc., Etc.

I found that I took the TTC maybe 2-3 times a month during peak biking season, primarily for super long distance trips. Especially to areas outside of bike share coverage. I friggin hate the TTC though. Painfully slow.

A bike is 100% a necessity for car-free or car-lite living. Even now, living in Hamilton, I'm eying up an e-bike. My commute (pre-covid) was about a 25 minute drive. I figure I could do it on an E-bike in about 35-40 minutes, all along bike lanes and scenic trails. We live up a large hill too so it would be nice to not be sweating every time I pull in the driveway.

I don't think it's in the cards this summer but I may spring for one next, well, spring. Seems hard to find a quality one for less than $1500 though, it would be nice to get one for less than $1k.

I have always had my license though. Got my G1 literally a few days after I turned 16. Just never bought a car because I lived in Toronto and they were absurdly expensive to operate, and I had other financial priorities.

Now that I'm in Hamilton, Car-free is less practical, and a car is much cheaper to operate, so I bought an old volvo with extremely high mileage. I'm hoping to try to limit my use as much as possible, but we'll see.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 6:34 PM
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I have neither a car or bike and make it work. Helps that i have a grocery store on my block and like 12 bus routes within a 3 minute walk.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 6:51 PM
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When I lived in Vancouver, Translink was my friend. That was how I got to places like Lighthouse Park in West Vancouver past Dundarave, Lynn Valley Headwater, Mt Seymour, Haney Place (unfortunately not Alouette or Golden Ears Park). I’ve even been to Mission by bus too but transferring at Aldergrove was super circuitous. I still remembered the time when I walked from Downtown Abbotsford to Aldergrove thinking that I already missed the bus, just to see it pass by me near the west end of Abbotsford. I still remembered that sense of despair even to this day. I almost got run over by a turning truck on Fraser Highway too. When I finally reached Aldergrove 2 hr 15 min later, another bus passed me by... (I just started grade 10 then. It’d been an interesting time.)
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 6:55 PM
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We have one car in our family and we live in a suburban area.

My wife and I have jobs which (pre-COVID) are easily accessible by transit and/or bike.

My teens are busy with school (in Hull, so an other part of the city), part-time jobs and activities - but these are all accessible by transit. Though we do pick them by car when stuff finishes up later at night and they're alone.

And of course there are get-togethers with friends and teenaged significant others.

So we manage all of that with just one car. Usually the car goes to the trip requirement that has the strongest rationale for its "essentiality". If it sounds like there is a lot of negotiation and tension associated with that, there isn't. We've been doing it for so long that it basically just happens naturally, in our modus vivendi.

My eldest will be allowed to drive alone soon, so it's likely within the next half-year or so we will become a two-car household.

Though I won't be paying for the second car.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
I pretty much biked everywhere. Bike-share was a huge help on this I found, perfect for one way trips and for using a multitude of modes. The thing with using a personal bike is as soon as you leave the house with it, you are stuck with using it until you return home.

Bike share allowed me to bike to a buddies house, hang out, go out to a few bars in a different part of town, then bike home without having to go back and pick up my bike. Or bike to work, take a taxi with co-workers to a meeting, then bike home right from the meeting. Etc., Etc., Etc.
This is a mobility option which I really miss in Ottawa. Having lived in Montreal on and off for a few years, Bixi was my daily workhorse. Cheap, fast, convenient, and the ability to ride it downhill and take the metro back if I wasn't feeling up for an uphill return.

We've had two short-lived and near-uselessly-timid private attempts. The last one, CycleHop, I actually used a fair deal, despite the limited range and somewhat unreliable dock-less system. But at $10/mo, it was cheap enough to buy alongside a transit pass to cover the first and last mile of trips.

I think transit agencies would benefit hugely from integrating bike-share into their networks. It effectively triples their catchment areas on both ends. The summer I used CycleHop, I found myself actually using transit more because of this: I combined transit and bike-share for trips that I would've never considered entirely on transit alone.

Ottawa's transit agency keeps boasting that "by Stage 2 LRT, 70% of Ottawans will be within... 5km of a station." It's a damn near useless statistic since at almost 2 hours of walking time total, no one would walk 5 km to and from a station on both ends. But a 12-15-minute ride to and from a station is within reason.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 7:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
I still remembered the time when I walked from Downtown Abbotsford to Aldergrove thinking that I already missed the bus, just to see it pass by me near the west end of Abbotsford. I still remembered that sense of despair even to this day. I almost got run over by a turning truck on Fraser Highway too. When I finally reached Aldergrove 2 hr 15 min later, another bus passed me by... (I just started grade 10 then. It’d been an interesting time.)
When I was growing up further in the suburbs, this sorta stuff would kill me. But the (relatively recent) introduction of real-time transit apps has completely changed it for me. I can barely conceive how any of us put up with not knowing exactly when the bus would arrive, if we needed to run or walk to the stop, or if we'd make a connection. Until 2015 ish, the STO didn't even have Google Maps integration. I had to carry around the bulky bus schedule booklet (which didn't always include a map for some inconceivable reason), and flip from page to page to triangulate what connections might maybe be possible with which routes at what time. And god forbid the bus hit traffic - I'd have to recalculate the whole damn trip. And if I got to the stop less than five minutes before the departure, there was no real way of knowing if the bus was coming, late, or already past. I remember actively waiting a whole hour at a stop - not reading a book or watching a video, just actively looking down the street lest the bus pass right in front of me.

When the STO introduced both mapping and real-time a few years back, it completely changed how I got around. All of a sudden, I felt I could go anywhere. Just open my phone, tap a destination, and have the certainty of knowing exactly how to get there when.

I take it for granted now, but I don't know if I'd have gone car-free without real-time transit apps.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 7:34 PM
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My East Vancouver neighborhood is a superweird (to me) mix of residential and industrial, so I found and rented a place that was literally next door to the industrial building we rented to install our factory there. So I don't need to touch the car most days. Really nice.

Also, I can forget stuff at home and just go back and get it anytime. Very convenient.

The other day, I went back home just to make myself a coffee with my coffee machine then walked back to the factory with it still smoking hot and in a standard ceramic cup that's not meant to be take-out. Not everyone can do this while "at work"

This 'hood is pretty walkable too, I would barely need a vehicle.

A few times, I had to borrow a truck from someone I met since I moved here. (My trucks are back home...) Worked very well.

It's not as hard as I thought to be (nearly) car-free. (Though it's still very nice to have it parked right there and available, I'll admit.)
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 8:18 PM
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Went six years without a car in Ottawa which was manageable. I was fortunate enough to live mostly in Centretown with jobs centered in the CBD, so walking to and from work was a breeze. I utilized transitway a lot and thought the bus system was amazing having grown up in the Maritimes where busses, outside of maybe Halifax, are dreadful in just about every way. In its core Ottawa is pretty walkable so it's a pretty great place to live without a car...just don't try to go to Orleans or Kanata at any point ever. I moved away just as the LRT was coming on line but I found it cut down general travel times on the previous transitway considerably.

Toronto is much easier to get around comparatively, and because I live pretty centrally on both a subway line and streetcar line I have no real issues getting anywhere that I need to go. I find that I rarely ever call Uber compared to what I used to in Ottawa, and I use public transit much more here than ever before. One really doesn't appreciate the streetcar network until you start using it reliably.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
This is a mobility option which I really miss in Ottawa. Having lived in Montreal on and off for a few years, Bixi was my daily workhorse. Cheap, fast, convenient, and the ability to ride it downhill and take the metro back if I wasn't feeling up for an uphill return.

We've had two short-lived and near-uselessly-timid private attempts. The last one, CycleHop, I actually used a fair deal, despite the limited range and somewhat unreliable dock-less system. But at $10/mo, it was cheap enough to buy alongside a transit pass to cover the first and last mile of trips.

I think transit agencies would benefit hugely from integrating bike-share into their networks. It effectively triples their catchment areas on both ends. The summer I used CycleHop, I found myself actually using transit more because of this: I combined transit and bike-share for trips that I would've never considered entirely on transit alone.

Ottawa's transit agency keeps boasting that "by Stage 2 LRT, 70% of Ottawans will be within... 5km of a station." It's a damn near useless statistic since at almost 2 hours of walking time total, no one would walk 5 km to and from a station on both ends. But a 12-15-minute ride to and from a station is within reason.
Personally I love Toronto's fee model, which is a flat annual fee of $100 per year, then unlimited free usage for under 30 minute trips. The pay per minute model a lot of other bike share systems use works out to be much more expensive. For Toronto, once the annual fee is paid, all trips are free. The lack of incremental cost for additional trips means that it's a no brainer to take a bike for almost any kind of trip. I would regularly ride about 1-2 blocks on a bike if I knew there was another station along my route simply because it would be faster than walking. Saves tons of time and makes getting around the city super easy.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Personally I love Toronto's fee model, which is a flat annual fee of $100 per year, then unlimited free usage for under 30 minute trips. The pay per minute model a lot of other bike share systems use works out to be much more expensive. For Toronto, once the annual fee is paid, all trips are free. The lack of incremental cost for additional trips means that it's a no brainer to take a bike for almost any kind of trip. I would regularly ride about 1-2 blocks on a bike if I knew there was another station along my route simply because it would be faster than walking. Saves tons of time and makes getting around the city super easy.
Vancouver has the same model, but it look me a few years before I finally decided to sign up. Now I grab a bike sometimes on the way home (mostly downhill) turning my 25 min walk into a 5-10 min ride on a nice day.

I would rather see a per trip mode too though (limit 30 mins). I think $2 or something is fair, given the $100/year model. These trips need to have a direct comparison to catching a bus (or Uber) IMO.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 8:46 PM
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This is not a slag on car-free/car-lite/car-less people but in my observation a lot of them do tend to "bum" rides a lot off people they know who do have cars.

Especially socially, even if you're living in the biggest Canadian cities you're likely to have friends in the car-dependent burbs from your workplace, or family, or former inner city neighbours who had a kid and moved to Whitby or Repentigny.

Typically if you go to a dinner party in these locales, the city people without cars wil make their way there on their own, and then scope out possible rides for the return trip during the course of the evening. Either that or they'll try and set up a ride (to and from) beforehand with someone they know who's going.

I often do the same thing on my car-less evenings when the family needs the vehicle. I am pretty good at getting anywhere in Gatineau or Ottawa on transit for the outward leg. Often my wife will say "do you want me to come get you after it's over?", and I'll say "no, I'll get a ride with someone". Often it's all the way to my place or sometimes it's at least part of the journey and the rest I will bus it or take a taxi.

Aylmer is a real trooper for bringing building materials on the bus, though. That's a pretty classic case where the non-motorized call their friends with wheels for a ride. That and trips to Costco when they want to buy stuff in bulk.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 9:41 PM
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Toronto bike share introduced single trips about a year ago, at the same price as a TTC cash fare.
So $3.25.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 10:27 PM
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It's one of the reasons I opted for a thread on "car-lite" living as opposed to "car-free". The way we build and organize our society right now assumes universal car ownership. Heck, the prime (and sometimes only) ID to prove you even exist is a driving license. So we can't be surprised that in many occasions, it's either far more convenient to use one, or damn near impossible to do without it.

I'd say that I 'bum' a ride maybe once every month or two, usually because someone's offered, it's faster, and we're going the same way anyhow. A few times a year, I also properly need a vehicle. My partner drives, so we take out a car-share (Communauto), or family will offer theirs.

The biggest reason I need a car isn't the classic Ikea or reno materials, funny enough (there's delivery for those). It's actually events like weddings on a farm, conferences in transit/bike-hostile locations, and the like. What's frustrating is that there is rarely an inherent reason for these event to be located in these places. It just stems from the assumption that 100% of people - or at least 'real people' - own a car.

I don't expect the world to revolve around my needs and choices. But I think that there is a growing need to readjust our cultural understanding of how people get around. 1 household in 6 in Canada is car-free. In places like Toronto, it's closer to 1 in 3. As Boomers - the most car-heavy demographic - are ageing out of a safe driving age and Millenials seem less able/keen to take ownership on, this number is likely to continue increasing.

An adjustment of our cultural assumptions around mobility will be key to ensuring that we're not unwittingly excluding people. On a very practical level, it just means that when we're organizing an event, we give some thought to whether it's accessible for everyone. I won't lie - on occasion, I get the slightest bit irked when an event has had no consideration for the 15% of car-free households, but goes through the trouble of offering me an snack option for the 2% of vegan Canadians.

The great thing is that planning a car-optional event means that everyone gets a choice. If you can get to that conference by bike or by transit, that means that your partner still has the car to pick up your kids from sports. Or you don't have to pay for hours of parking. Or you can actually have that drink (or two, or three).

Maybe that's good branding: more modes = more booze. A slogan we can all get behind.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 10:36 PM
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I lived for 20 years without a car but the next 20 I will live with a car. I saved a lot more money not owning a car but the older you get the less convenient the lifestyle gets. When your folks get old and can no longer drive not having a car becomes a liability.

I spent the first 10 with a mix of transit, biking and walking and the second decade mostly walking and using transit (subway and bus--although waiting for a bus on a cold day sucks I actually prefer it to the subway these days.)

Also I'm tired of the urban experience -- I have walked, biked or taken transit on nearly every urban street in Kitchener-Waterloo, Hamilton, London, Victoria, Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver now I want to explore the spaces between these cities.

Last edited by urbandreamer; Jun 3, 2020 at 11:05 PM.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
It's one of the reasons I opted for a thread on "car-lite" living as opposed to "car-free". The way we build and organize our society right now assumes universal car ownership. Heck, the prime (and sometimes only) ID to prove you even exist is a driving license. So we can't be surprised that in many occasions, it's either far more convenient to use one, or damn near impossible to do without it.

I'd say that I 'bum' a ride maybe once every month or two, usually because someone's offered, it's faster, and we're going the same way anyhow. A few times a year, I also properly need a vehicle. My partner drives, so we take out a car-share (Communauto), or family will offer theirs.

The biggest reason I need a car isn't the classic Ikea or reno materials, funny enough (there's delivery for those). It's actually events like weddings on a farm, conferences in transit/bike-hostile locations, and the like. What's frustrating is that there is rarely an inherent reason for these event to be located in these places. It just stems from the assumption that 100% of people - or at least 'real people' - own a car.

I don't expect the world to revolve around my needs and choices. But I think that there is a growing need to readjust our cultural understanding of how people get around. 1 household in 6 in Canada is car-free. In places like Toronto, it's closer to 1 in 3. As Boomers - the most car-heavy demographic - are ageing out of a safe driving age and Millenials seem less able/keen to take ownership on, this number is likely to continue increasing.

An adjustment of our cultural assumptions around mobility will be key to ensuring that we're not unwittingly excluding people. On a very practical level, it just means that when we're organizing an event, we give some thought to whether it's accessible for everyone. I won't lie - on occasion, I get the slightest bit irked when an event has had no consideration for the 15% of car-free households, but goes through the trouble of offering me an snack option for the 2% of vegan Canadians.

The great thing is that planning a car-optional event means that everyone gets a choice. If you can get to that conference by bike or by transit, that means that your partner still has the car to pick up your kids from sports. Or you don't have to pay for hours of parking. Or you can actually have that drink (or two, or three).

Maybe that's good branding: more modes = more booze. A slogan we can all get behind.
I was also thinking of family dinners at Maman and Papa's in Aylmer!
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  #20  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 12:12 AM
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I think this best belongs in the "cover's been blown thread"

But no, I'm fortunate that my fam lives in a pretty transit-rich burb. It even has decent cycling routes to get there. I either take the bus (25-30 minutes) or my bike (40 minutes). Driving is faster, but only barely at 20 minutes. That's a trip I don't think I've ever bummed a ride for.
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