[Dartmouth] Mic Mac Mall Developments | ^115 m | 10 Phases | Proposed

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by spaustin

This is it. Two sentence email the day before Council from their consultant saying the landowner had changed their mind. No explanation as to why. Makes no sense to proceed with a plan for the area if the landowner that owns everything isn't interested so I removed it from the agenda. I asked prior to the meeting if the report should be tabled (tabled reports basically go into limbo and only come back if Council asks for them), but the procedural advice was that it should be removed from the agenda so that's what happened.

Removed without explanation. No reason to remove without an explanation for the public record. The removal should have been handled by the Clerk and the Solicitor indicating the receipt of correspondence and the options available to the council.

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Removed without explanation. No reason to remove without an explanation for the public record. The removal should have been handled by the Clerk and the Solicitor indicating the receipt of correspondence and the options available to the council.

My words at Council: "Thank you Mr. Mayor. I would like to remove 11.2 the Mic Mac Mall Future Growth Node. The property owner has had seconds thoughts on that one." That's an explanation and this is how the Clerk and Solicitor advised we should handle it.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

I think figuring where to place and how to integrate a new transit terminal on this site should be one of the first things looked at by the consultant team. Figure out a road layout, transit terminal and then work everything else out based on how those will work.

I also think a pedestrian bridge over the highway to link up to Shubie Park trails would create a great asset for this site and its future residents.

Why a bridge over eight lanes of highway when there is a perfectly fine underpass there now to use to get to Shubie trails?

[ns_kid]

While unrelated, perhaps, to Ivanhoé Cambridge's aborted Future Growth Node plan, I wanted to weigh in on Mic Mac's ugly step child, the Hudson's Bay store. With the recent renovations to MMM complete, the HBC store, tucked at the west end of the mall, stands out, and not in a good way. The store's exterior is effectively unchanged since it opened as Simpsons' second metro location in 1973. While HBC swallowed Simpsons in 1978, and rebranded the remaining stores in 1991, it did nothing more than change the name. The brick, the marquees, even the exterior doors, are all 48 years old and in poor condition. It's been 10 years since HBC closed its Halifax Shopping Centre location, and eight years since it dropped "The Bay" branding, and it has not seen fit to even update the signage at the Dartmouth store.

While I'm sure Ivanhoé Cambridge is happy to have the tenant (although there have been stories of HBC in disputes with its landlords over the last year) surely they are acutely aware that the faded, grimy brickwork at the HBC end of the mall is in sorry contrast to the renovated parts of the mall. HBC this week reported another dismal quarter while launching a new online shopping portal. The Dartmouth and Sydney stores are the last remaining HBC properties east of Québec. It's hard to see much of a future for what must be the city's last upscale-ish department store.



The MicMac HBC south entrance. To the left of the door is the amputated trunk of one of the graceful pine trees that once bracketed the entrances. Source: The Chronicle Herald



The west side of the HBC features painted plywood, covering the entryway and windows of the former store dining room, Eggcetera, closed (I believe) in the early to mid-90s. Source: The Chronicle Herald.



The sign marquee over the north entrance shows the brackets still in place from the former Simpsons signage, removed 30 years ago. Source: Google

[essaysmith]

I personally think the mall is afraid to push the Bay to make any updates or changes because they are afraid of losing this anchor as well. Mall rules state you must update you store every five years or so, and the bay hasn't in well over a decade. Flooring inside has tape covering cracked tiles and has for multiple years.

[IanWatson]

I have the impression that The Bay is on its last legs. I went in a couple of weeks ago and found that upstairs was pretty much devoid of stock. Maybe it's just a temporary symptom of supply chain problems caused by COVID, but it really did feel like they were basically clearing the place out.

[DigitalNinja]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

I have the impression that The Bay is on its last legs. I went in a couple of weeks ago and found that upstairs was pretty much devoid of stock. Maybe it's just a temporary symptom of supply chain problems caused by COVID, but it really did feel like they were basically clearing the place out.

Seems like their main money maker is the downstairs clothing departments, only thing upstairs that might be making money is their kitchen dept. They got rid of appliances and their furniture is overpriced for what you get, only exception being some of their sofas.

I could see them downsizing to just 1 level, I believe they have done some renovations in the lower level.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I fear that one side effect of covid will be a vast reduction in brick and mortar shops. While online shopping is fine for some things, it's not so good for others, especially clothing, shoes, etc., as appearance and fit are best checked pre-purchase. Not to mention the loss of retail jobs when a large store such as The Bay goes away. Just my ramblings...

FWIW, I've always liked the layout of the Mic Mac Mall (or is it Miꞌkmaq Mall?) Bay store, with its separate entrance. There's always a good place to park and you can choose an entrance near the department that you want to shop in, if you're just going for something specific. Plus, it's less busy than the other mall entrances - but that's just me. I hope the Bay store can hang on, as it's getting harder to find large stores that sell goods higher than Walmart level junk (although that's not to say all stuff in Walmart is crap, but a good amount of it is). Maybe I'm just showing my age, though...

[Colin May]

In 2015 MMM was assessed at $200,058,000 since then the assessment has been on a downward trajectory each year and in 2021 it is now at $116,301,900. In 2021 the tax revenue is $2.3 million less than in 2015.
So what do we know about the recent and now defunct plan to consult citizens about how best to develop the whole property ?
We know that an Ivanhoe Cambridge hired ZZap to prepare and file an application to develop the site.
What we don't know is the date when ZZap was hired.
We don't know when they filed an application with HRM.
We don't know if any member of council was consulted
We don't know if any member of council provided verbal or written comments to Zzap
We don't know if any member of council talked with or exchanged correspondence with planning staff.
The Halifax Shopping Centre revamp is now the premier mall in Atlantic Canada and I doubt MicMacMall will ever be the destination that it once was.

[connect2source]

Amazing to see that they haven't even updated the branding to Hudson's Bay which was adopted in 2013. Here in BC the only locations that kept The Bay logos were stores that were set for demo or closure like Oakridge and Lougheed Mall. The fact that Mic Mac Mall still has The Bay logo could be very telling.

[q12]

Dartmouth shopping mecca Mic Mac Mall sold to Halifax developer Joe Ramia

Mic Mac Mall in Dartmouth has been acquired by Rank Inc. and Halifax developer Joe Ramia, along with a group of investors.

“Mic Mac Mall is already a phenomenal property and we look forward to elevating the experience even further for our tenants, our guests and our community,” said Ramia in a news release announcing the deal.

“This property has been part of the fabric of Atlantic Canada for the last 50 years and we see incredible potential in its future.”
Built in 1973 on a large tract of land with easy highway access, Mic Mac Mall serves Nova Scotians within a 140-kilometre trade radius, according to the new ownership group.

Reputed to be the largest enclosed shopping centre in Nova Scotia, its roster of fashion and lifestyle retailers includes H&M, Sephora and Pandora, as well as destination retailers such as Hudson’s Bay, Decathlon, Linen Chest, Chapters, Old Navy and Winners.

The previous owner, Montreal-based Ivanhoe Cambridge, the real estate arm of the Caisse de depot et placement du Quebec, had reportedly been looking to consolidate its retail properties and decided to sell Mic Mac Mall since it was the pension plan’s only retail operation east of Montreal.

Ivanhoe Cambridge approached Ramia, who has experience with several high-profile development projects such as the Nova Centre in downtown Halifax and redevelopment of the Bayers Road Shopping Centre.

The Ramia investment group took control of the mall on Wednesday, and the sale was formally announced Thursday.

Experienced shopping centre operator Cushman & Wakefield has been hired to manage the property and handle the leasing.

“Today is a great day for the future of Mic Mac Mall,” Tamitha Oakley, general manager of the mall, said in the release.

“We’re elated that our new ownership group shares our commitment to serving Atlantic Canada and ensuring we remain a vibrant economic hub for people to shop, gather, work and play.”

With 20.2 hectares of land, densification of the property will be a future focus for Ramia and his team. This could include the potential addition of a business office campus, residential components, restaurants and entertainment spots.

Mic Mac Mall has long been on the radar of municipal planning staff eager to find large under-utilized spots to increase population density. According to the regional municipality’s Centre Plan, the Mic Mac node close to major road and transportation corridors would be ideal for expansion.

“These areas have the potential to accommodate significant growth due to their size, location and proximity to services, subject to environmental and servicing considerations,” according to the plan.

Ivanhoe Cambridge had a development plan prepared and ready to be presented to council last year but the company had last-minute thoughts and withdrew its proposal.

The Mic Mac Mall development process may be a little more complicated than the other nodes, according to authorities, since there hasn’t been much work done to look at what redevelopment could be like around the mall.

There are indications that the new owner has scrapped the Ivanhoe Cambridge plan and is already working on a development scheme of its own. Potentially, a business campus could be built on the western side of the mall in an underutilized area behind the former Winners/HomeSense location, as Winners has moved to another location within the mall and HomeSense has moved to nearby Dartmouth Crossing.

https://www.saltwire.com/halifax/new...mia-100629985/

Cushman & Wakefield now manages/leasing for both Halifax Shopping Centre and Mic Mac Mall.

[Colin May]

The property has not been sold. No sale is registered. HRM will make several million from the Deed Transfer Tax.

[q12]

Internet amused and horrified by mall's Christmas tree

Talking Christmas tree creeps people out while delighting them. CNN's Jeanne Moos reports.
Source: CNN

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/1...os-pkg-vpx.cnn

• Video Link

[OldDartmouthMark]

It saddens me a little how cynical and critical the world has become since the advent of the internet and social media.

Although I was over the age to participate when MMM introduced Woody The Talking Christmas Tree the first time around, I was always astounded by how many kids seemed to get absolute joy from talking to the tree.

Of course, in today's world we can't let kids just be kids and enjoy a world of wonder that spurs their imaginations - we have to introduce sinister and disgusting ideas about things that were once considered cute and nice. In fact 'cute and nice' seems to have been turned into a negative somehow. No wonder we have so much dysfunction out there now, and sadly it doesn't look like it's ever going to get any better.

Fuck you, CNN, and everyone else who wants to monetize the world by turning everything into clickbait.

[Half-Axed]

A lot of stuff designed for little kids looks creepy to adult eyes and quite a few media outlets are having fun with Woody for the moment. It was on the Jimmy Fallon show last week (as mentioned in the clip) then it was on Global News, numerous local American channels, and Fox and CNN are just the latest to pick it up - it has "gone viral". It's all in good fun and it's not taking anything away from the children.

[Keith P.]

I have long avoided watching anything on CNN. My decision was absolutely correct based upon that report. Of course, they had to use the toxic DeAdder as fodder in their piece. I cannot believe Ms. Moos is still on the air. She was on there long before CNN became disreputable propagandists.

[Dartguard]

I saw that CNN report and did have a chuckle. Moos missed the most obvious difference since Woody was last in the Mall. WEED is legal in Canada and Woody looks like he is taking full advantage.

[Saul Goode]

I'm actually amazed that people here have their shorts in such an angry knot over this. Is humor completely dead? These are gentle, lightweight fluff pieces, and I found them all fairly amusing. I mean, not knee-slapping, fall-in-the-aisles laughing funny, but far from offensive.

Jeezus, relax. There's enough in the world to get upset about. But Woody? Seriously?

And for the record, I always found Woody creepy (as did one of my two kids). For that matter, a lot of kids did. That's just a fact. I'm sure the mere fact that I've even mentioned it will set somebody off, though...

Oh, and Jimmy Fallon's line was the best of all.

[Half-Axed]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

Oh, and Jimmy Fallon's line was the best of all.

The Tammy Faye Bakker comparison got a snicker out of me too.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I'm actually amazed that people here have their shorts in such an angry knot over this. Is humor completely dead? These are gentle, lightweight fluff pieces, and I found them all fairly amusing. I mean, not knee-slapping, fall-in-the-aisles laughing funny, but far from offensive.

Jeezus, relax. There's enough in the world to get upset about. But Woody? Seriously?

And for the record, I always found Woody creepy (as did one of my two kids). For that matter, a lot of kids did. That's just a fact. I'm sure the mere fact that I've even mentioned it will set somebody off, though...

Oh, and Jimmy Fallon's line was the best of all.

Agree completely. People need to relax. Adults are having fun with it, and so are kids. There’s no real problem here.