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  #2921  
Old Posted May 22, 2020, 1:38 AM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Good news for anyone who rides the Blue Line to O'Hare, the connecting tunnels linking T1/T2/T3 to the Blue Line station under the parking garage will be renovated. Which is good, too, because right now they feel like the sub-basement of a Soviet office building... This design is a little try-hard but certainly an improvement over what's there now. I assume they are meant to coordinate with Jeanne Gang's T2 design.

I don't see any moving walkways... is the intention to eliminate them?
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  #2922  
Old Posted May 22, 2020, 4:34 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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I don't see any moving walkways... is the intention to eliminate them?
They will eliminate them. No longer moving walkways. You can take a short walk. It's not too far away from there.
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  #2923  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 1:21 PM
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They will eliminate them. No longer moving walkways. You can take a short walk. It's not too far away from there.
I’m sort of surprised this isn’t part of the Ohare21 project. But these hallways do need to be updated.

O’Hare has been removing sidewalks from the T1 concourses for years. But for those over 60, with kids, or with medical conditions, these arn’t that short. Look at any newer or updated airports and terminals around the world and you will notice they all have moving sidewalks (Singapore, HKG, PVG, Beijing(s), Delhi, FRA, LHR, SFO, etc.). Is it space (they are there now), or cost? It’s usually cost. The O’Hare21 project doesn’t even have a train from T2 to the new satellites. Imagine no trains at Denver or Atlanta? Imagine connecting from a remote gate in the 2nd new satellite in the future to B17? Ugly.
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  #2924  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
I don't see any moving walkways... is the intention to eliminate them?
I don't think the tunnels in the rendering ever had moving walkways... the big central tunnel (the one with all the flags) has the moving walkways but that one is not pictured. I don't think it's included in the scope of this renovation, only the smaller ones that connect to each terminal.

More info here:
https://www.epsteinglobal.com/whats-...strian-tunnels
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  #2925  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 3:09 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I don't think the tunnels in the rendering ever had moving walkways... the big central tunnel (the one with all the flags) has the moving walkways but that one is not pictured. I don't think it's included in the scope of this renovation, only the smaller ones that connect to each terminal.

More info here:
https://www.epsteinglobal.com/whats-...strian-tunnels
This is a huge let down and yet another "small thinking" proposal. You'll essentially have a few hundred feet of a modern tunnel in between an outdated terminal and an outdated central tunnel on the way to an outdated CTA station.

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  #2926  
Old Posted May 25, 2020, 9:08 PM
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^ If you read the link, the main purpose of the project is to install dampproofing so the tunnels don't leak. The new interior design is just a bonus, since all the original finishes need to be ripped out anyway.

The central part by the Blue Line station is actually the basement of the parking garage, not a tunnel per se, so it doesn't need that same dampproofing.
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  #2927  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2020, 3:37 AM
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Never knew about RJD 5 mile lake plan...I'd like to if others have info on it.


https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/ne...rbs-of-chicago


New push for 3rd airport in south suburbs of Chicago


By Mike Flannery


Whether it was Richard J. Daley's proposal in 1970 to build a giant, international airport five miles out in the middle of Lake Michigan; or his son's 1990's notion to put it in Lake Calumet; or the most recent plan for south suburban Will County -- a half-century's worth of spending, totaling hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars, has so far come to nothing.

Congresswoman Robin Kelly sees a chance to change that.






“With so many Amazon facilities emerging in the Chicago metro area, I am certain that we're gonna need a more accessible airport that isn't on the other side of Chicago,” Kelly said.

Speaking at Monday’s announcement of new Amazon warehouses in the south suburbs, employing one-thousand people, Kelly talked of Peotone becoming an international hub for e-commerce cargo.





“In fact, Amazon Air has purchased a fleet of 100 new cargo planes, about half of which are operational today,”
she said.

Also at Monday’s announcement, Gov. JB Pritzker promised to spend more tax dollars on a Peotone airport, but says it will never get off the ground without deep-pocketed corporations such as Amazon.

“We’re trying to bring together the government side, the infrastructure investments that need to be made. And, on the private side, the business that will be necessary for it to be successful,” the governor said.

No comment on this from Amazon, a company notorious for demanding taxpayer subsidies.
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  #2928  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 2:03 AM
Chi-Sky21 Chi-Sky21 is offline
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Like we have the 100s of millions so spend. WHY!? just improve Rockford and Gary. So much money for little gain. Makes no sense.
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  #2929  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 2:42 AM
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Like we have the 100s of millions so spend. WHY!? just improve Rockford and Gary. So much money for little gain. Makes no sense.
Yeah seriously. I get that Gary is in another state, but maybe if we ask nicely Indiana will let us have Lake County? But then we'll have two Lake counties, and that's a problem. What about Greater Kankakee Airport? Kankakee is not much farther than Peotone...
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  #2930  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 3:11 AM
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Never knew about RJD 5 mile lake plan...I'd like to if others have info on it.
Pretty wild plan... the idea was to build a circular dike in the middle of the lake with a 4 mile diameter. Then the water would be pumped out and runways, terminals, etc built on the dry lakebed. Access would be via the Stevenson Expressway, with a new bridge into the lake starting near McCormick Place.

For comparison, a 4 mile circle would contain the CURRENT size of O'Hare with room to spare, and certainly much larger than the 1970 size of O'Hare.

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Last edited by ardecila; Jun 28, 2020 at 3:25 AM.
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  #2931  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 6:09 PM
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Thanks for that info.

What a radical idea. I wonder how it would have looked from the lakefront and how distracting or non it would have been.

Was this planned before O'Hare and replace it or complement it?

I'm sure it was feasible, the lake is pretty shallow in those parts.

Its been done before several times over in a lot of places. Kansai it as good example and many other in Japan. Also Hong Kong INT.






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai...tional_Airport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_K...tional_Airport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chubu_...tional_Airport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitakyushu_Airport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian...tional_Airport
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  #2932  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21 View Post
Like we have the 100s of millions so spend. WHY!? just improve Rockford and Gary. So much money for little gain. Makes no sense.
Well, as for Gary, I'd rather have my state have the revenue, taxes, etc, than a neighboring state.

Rockford is already a well-known and busy airport, that probably doesn't need to be expanded now.

The location in Peotone (closer to Beecher, actually), makes sense not just for the proximity to industrial corridors in IN, as well as I-80, I-55, I-57, I-294, etc., but there is already a small airport there, and there is plenty of land to expand if needed. The SSA (South Suburban Airport) is nothing new, IDOT and the state have been working on it for years and years and years; you can even seen the latest master plans from 2016 that show a very clearly defined phasing of what may end up being a large national or even international airport:

https://www.southsuburbanairport.com...MP-reports.htm

https://www.southsuburbanairport.com...14-ULT-ALP.pdf

Long story short, having a third major airport is never a bad thing, especially when it's located in or near the one area with the largest growth in our region (Will county). There's a strange phenomenon in the state of Illinois and even the Chicago metro area that growth and expansion is unnecessary, we're fine with what we have, and fuck the future. Even if we weren't in the middle of a plague, there will always be a need to fly, and it will keep growing and growing because people want to travel, good need to move around the world, so....why not?
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Last edited by sentinel; Jun 28, 2020 at 7:34 PM. Reason: dumb wording
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  #2933  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 8:55 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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There's a strange phenomenon in the state of Illinois and even the Chicago metro area that growth and expansion is unnecessary, we're fine with what we have, and fuck the future. Even if we weren't in the middle of a plague, there will always be a need to fly, and it will keep growing and growing because people want to travel, good need to move around the world, so....why not?
Strange thing to say when ORD is getting almost completely rebuilt in one of the largest airport expansion projects outside of China.

I'm of the opinion that any tax dollar spent on Peotone would have been better spent on ORD.

Last edited by Kngkyle; Jun 29, 2020 at 12:09 AM.
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  #2934  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2020, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
Strange thing to say when ORD is getting almost completely rebuilt in one of the largest airport expansion projects outside of China.

I've of the view that any tax dollar spent on Peotone would have been better spent on ORD.
My post was about new things, not about renovating something that has been existing for decades and has needed to be upgraded for decades.
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  #2935  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2020, 1:56 PM
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^ But the state has limited resources - spending money on a pipe dream airport is NOT spending money on something else. Also, the Peotone location is solidly in the cornfields, so any investment there is a bet toward massive future sprawl - in fact, that's the end goal. Will County leaders WANT a field of vast warehouses as far as the eye can see - which they already have in the west part of the county along I-55.

I'm not anti-growth in any way, but the Peotone airport folks need to explain how their project is even remotely sustainable for the environment, for Illinois' budget, and for addressing the REAL problems that Chicagoland faces (for example, how are low-income folks from the South Side/South suburbs supposed to get to these "good jobs" loading boxes in an Amazon warehouse?)
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Last edited by ardecila; Jun 29, 2020 at 2:09 PM.
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  #2936  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2020, 1:22 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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Long story short, having a third major airport is never a bad thing, especially when it's located in or near the one area with the largest growth in our region (Will county).
I disagree. It's true, more is more. If the choice was between getting a free airport in Peotone or getting nothing, better to have the third airport. But one airport with capacity X is worth more than twice as much as two airports with capacity 0.5x. There are network effects to scale and advantages related to connectivity. It's the same reason the revenue from Google search is worth more than 9x Bing search.

For the most part, the people who want an new airport 50 miles from downtown is that they want resources and infrastructure to be spent and built there rather than downtown. And it's a token voting issue for the rest of the state. "I live in Bloomington. If I can fly to Rome by driving 50 miles south of Chicago instead of driving TO Chicago, that would be great!"

Roads, transit, major infrastructure like airports, these should be built in a way that they leverage nearby resources, not diffusing them. Buffalo, for example, has the same population it did in 1950, but it's spread out to 3x the area. It's more costly to maintain that sprawl, there's less benefit to living there and it's more difficult to share amenities, so the people are less prosperous than they could be.

O'hare is a tremendous asset for the region and state. Building an international airport that draws business away from it damages it's value as a connecting hub. And we would lose leverage over the carriers that fly there. No thank you.
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  #2937  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2020, 3:20 PM
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Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum View Post
I disagree. It's true, more is more. If the choice was between getting a free airport in Peotone or getting nothing, better to have the third airport. But one airport with capacity X is worth more than twice as much as two airports with capacity 0.5x. There are network effects to scale and advantages related to connectivity. It's the same reason the revenue from Google search is worth more than 9x Bing search.

For the most part, the people who want an new airport 50 miles from downtown is that they want resources and infrastructure to be spent and built there rather than downtown. And it's a token voting issue for the rest of the state. "I live in Bloomington. If I can fly to Rome by driving 50 miles south of Chicago instead of driving TO Chicago, that would be great!"

Roads, transit, major infrastructure like airports, these should be built in a way that they leverage nearby resources, not diffusing them. Buffalo, for example, has the same population it did in 1950, but it's spread out to 3x the area. It's more costly to maintain that sprawl, there's less benefit to living there and it's more difficult to share amenities, so the people are less prosperous than they could be.

O'hare is a tremendous asset for the region and state. Building an international airport that draws business away from it damages it's value as a connecting hub. And we would lose leverage over the carriers that fly there. No thank you.
It would probably be more cost effective to just better connect O'Hare to the Illinois Amtrak network. Schiphol Airport effectively serves the entire Netherlands due to frequent train connections to everywhere in the country.
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