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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2013, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB View Post
I still wonder if it wouldn't have been cheaper and easier to just build a new rail yard somewhere in Jersey or Queens and then just demolish this one and not build the platform. Then the block structure could have been put in and smaller parcels sold off to developers.
Are these passenger trains? Can people ride these trains directly from the new projects being built?
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 1:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB View Post
I still wonder if it wouldn't have been cheaper and easier to just build a new rail yard somewhere in Jersey or Queens and then just demolish this one and not build the platform. Then the block structure could have been put in and smaller parcels sold off to developers.
You would still need to build the platform, and I don't see how this would save any money. The problem is that there is no "land" there. It's all a below-ground railyard.

And you can't move the railyard, because it's 100% utlilized for Penn Station train movements. Penn Station couldn't function without the rail yard.
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 1:42 AM
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Are these passenger trains? Can people ride these trains directly from the new projects being built?
Those are only passenger trains, and they're all waiting their turn for a run out of Penn.

Hudson Yards will have a direct underground connection all the way to Penn Station (actually all the way to 6th Ave., because the Penn complex extends east to 6th Ave.).
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 8:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB View Post
I still wonder if it wouldn't have been cheaper and easier to just build a new rail yard somewhere in Jersey or Queens and then just demolish this one and not build the platform. Then the block structure could have been put in and smaller parcels sold off to developers.
Too many issues there. The first one being that the tunnels under the river are being utilized at full capacity for trains carrying passengers. Even if they manage to get the new tunnels built, it would be for moving passengers. There is already a larger railyard in Queens. Another issue with moving the trains so far away is you would have a situation like the Port Authority currently has, where buses have to be moved out (to Jersey) after rush hour and moved back in for it, creating unneccesary traffic.

These railyards were specifically built and designed to allow for the platform to rise above.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 2:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
You would still need to build the platform, and I don't see how this would save any money. The problem is that there is no "land" there. It's all a below-ground railyard.

And you can't move the railyard, because it's 100% utlilized for Penn Station train movements. Penn Station couldn't function without the rail yard.
They have to build the platform in order to preserve the railyards, that is the reason there is "no land" there. If they could eliminate the railyards, it would be easier to build a structure there since they could put them directly over the ground, with conventional foundations, they would be absoultely free to drill piles, etc. and they could use the already-excavated bellow-ground space as parking garages or whatever.

Another thing is that railyards are vital for Penn Station operations and they can't be removed, but if they could, it would be certainly easier to build there.
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 4:28 PM
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Only the NJ tunnels are fully utilized, and only at peak periods. That certainly complicates building the rail yard in Jersey. The yard in Queens is in fact already large, but it's clear more capacity than that would be needed. It's certainly not impossible to put another yard in Queens somewhere anyway. I'm glad I got everyone thinking about this a little, though. Incidentally, even though the tunnels are at full capacity, the major reason this yard exists is solely because of the jurisdictional issues related to LIRR and NJT using Penn Station. If these trains were run as through trains, they would not need to be stored here (and only LIRR trains are stored here, the NJT through run to Sunnyside for storage). If instead of both agencies having their own "turf" and "through running" only to a yard they instead were made to work together operationally, this whole issue would go away completely, as would many of the space constraint arguments made for not bringing MNR trains into Penn Station right now.
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 10:17 PM
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^ The tunnels are at capacity as it is now, something that always annoys me when I have to use Penn Station and its just approaching crunch time. There are always delays because there is simply no room. You can see trains entering and leaving the west side railyards when you enter Penn Station. Having those trains running through the tunnel as well would bring everything to a stand still. Let's not even bring Amtrak into the mix, which has a big say on everything also. The development over the railyards of Grand Central is something everyone can look to when considering the future of this one. Today, no one even thinks or imagines those rails are down there because the way its been developed above.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 4:46 PM
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Looks like excavation should begin in a couple of months!



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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2013, 11:48 PM
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2013, 10:57 AM
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A little more on the design and construction...

http://www.asce.org/CEMagazine/Artic...id=23622322774

“Angled” Tower Breaks Ground in New York City





The 895 ft tall tower will taper in an east-west direction, creating the visual appearance of leaning toward the city.
The groundbreaking for a 47-story concrete, “angled” tower in Manhattan—part of the new 26-acre Hudson Yards development—took place in December.


January 8, 2013
By Catherine A. Cardno, Ph.D.


Quote:
A new 47-story, 1.8 million sq ft tower, boasting a 15-story-tall atrium located midway up its height, will join the Manhattan skyline by 2015. To be built entirely of concrete rather than of the city’s more typical steel, the building will be one of a pair of towers that appear to lean away from one another—one toward the Hudson River and one toward Manhattan. Tower C, the southernmost of these two commercial towers, is the first portion of the 26-acre Hudson Yards project—owned and operated by Related Companies and Oxford Properties Group, both of New York City—to break ground.

Tower C will be 895 ft tall, tapering in an east-west direction from approximately 225 ft at the base to 140 ft at the top, creating different floor areas at each level and the visual appearance of leaning toward the city. The exterior of the tower will boast floor-to-ceiling glass and two large outdoor terraces—one on the 32nd floor, and the other on the 47th floor.

Concrete is the building material of choice for the tower despite the fact that buildings in Manhattan are more typically built from steel, because of the “great efficiency” that it would bring to the tower, according to Joanna Rose, the vice president of Related Companies.

The tower will feature a cast-in-place concrete frame with a concrete core; large, flexible floor plates; and extensive column-free spaces, according to Aine M. Brazil, P.E., LEED AP, M.ASCE, the vice chairman of Thornton Tomasetti’s New York office, who wrote in response to written questions posed by Civil Engineering online. The floor framing will comprise one-way slabs spanning to posttensioned beams supported by lines of columns spaced 30 ft apart on center. Thornton Tomasetti is serving as the structural engineer for Tower C and for two glass-and-cable walls that form portions of the building’s skin.

A large portion of the building is being leased by the global fashion firm Coach Inc., which will make the space its world headquarters. An internal atrium will visually tie together Coach’s headquarters by extending upward from the 6th floor to the 21st floor, encompassing the entire space being leased by the firm. The cable-and-glass façade at this location comprises 10 ft by 4 ft 6 in. glass panels spanning nearly 200 by 60 ft, “creating a dramatic portal overlooking the High Line and southern Manhattan,” Brazil said.

The glass panels will be supported by 1 5/8 in. diameter cables that will be pretensioned from trusses and concrete walls located at the 5th and 21st floors, according to Brazil. To reduce the required amount of pretensioning, architecturally expressed steel spandrels will be located at alternating floors, she noted. These will also provide pathways for the heating elements.

The foundations are typical large-capacity caissons weighing up to 7,500 tons, Brazil said. Piles will be used in some locations in which loads are lower, she noted.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2013, 11:37 AM
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Does this mean that the sister tower will have concrete frame?
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  #92  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2013, 5:05 PM
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The number of ways for one to just get lost in the architectural details of this structure is amazing.
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2013, 5:47 PM
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Does this mean that the sister tower will have concrete frame?
At this point I think its just the Coach tower and the residential tower accross from it.



http://www.thehighline.org/blog/2013...the-rail-yards




The High Line’s construction team is coordinating closely with the crew at Hudson Yards, the massive real estate development underway just north of the elevated railway. Pictured here are bulldozers excavating in preparation for site’s first tower.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2013, 11:28 PM
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I absolutely love the Hudson Yard projects. This is a very complex engineering project and was wondering how they are going to build this over the busy rail yard.
Are they disrupting service?
Do they have to move any track for pilings?
What kind of vibration dampening methods are being used?
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2013, 1:47 PM
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http://chelseanow.com/2013/02/a-new-...the-ground-up/

A New Neighborhood, from the Ground Up


Quote:
The recent groundbreaking of the Hudson Yards project will usher in five years of construction that will extend the High Line to West 34th Street, build platforms over the rail yards, construct massive commercial and residential high-rise towers and provide public spaces and a K-8 school for new residents.
Quote:
August 2013: Superstructure of South Tower completed
Quote:
2015: Hudson Yards South Tower completed
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2013, 6:49 PM
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One thing I always wondered,is if it wouldn't have been much cheaper and equally useful for the city to get an easement from Amtrak for one of the tracks in the yard, and to run a shuttle train from Penn Station to Hudson Yards on that track that could ferry commuters back and forth. No expensive excavation and tunnel boring, no expensive eminent domain for ventilation buildings, and it would connect directly to NJTransit and LIRR in addition to 6 subway lines.
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2013, 7:39 PM
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Oh you mean run a few through trains on LIRR (for which no easement would be even remotely necessary, and which would have increased capacity at Penn Station, where the capacity problems are completely made up due to the lack of cooperation between competing local transit interests)? Yeah, that would have been fantastic, except then Bloomberg wouldn't have the fancy new subway station to add to his legacy. When the plan was for 2 new stations, the subway seemed much more useful.
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2013, 1:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hamilton View Post
One thing I always wondered,is if it wouldn't have been much cheaper and equally useful for the city to get an easement from Amtrak for one of the tracks in the yard, and to run a shuttle train from Penn Station to Hudson Yards on that track that could ferry commuters back and forth. No expensive excavation and tunnel boring, no expensive eminent domain for ventilation buildings, and it would connect directly to NJTransit and LIRR in addition to 6 subway lines.
In New York, you need a direct subway line. Sure, there are transfers between subways, but don't tell New Yorkers there's no difference. Besides, there aren't enough tracks at Penn for regular train service in and out, and subway service is far more frequent.


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...kmnE17S2cRty7J

Fed money keeps rail tunnel alive

By STEVE CUOZZO
February 26, 2013

Quote:
Related Cos. and Amtrak have agreed to build the first link of what’s hoped will eventually be a new rail tunnel beneath the Hudson River between New Jersey and Manhattan. In a breakthrough promoted by Sen. Chuck Schumer, work is to start this summer on a Washington-funded, 800-foot-long “box tunnel” right under Related’s Hudson Yards site, where construction has begun on a 900-foot office tower that will be home to Coach, Inc.

No firm estimate for Amtrak’s proposed two-track Gateway project was immediately available, but the railroad expects the cost to be mostly borne by the feds.

The box tunnel will not be designed to carry trains immediately, but will serve as a shell for the Manhattan end of the Gateway tunnel Amtrak hopes to build later. The box will hold the space for a rail link between the future Hudson tunnel and existing tracks at Penn Station — and for the proposed Moynihan Station if it’s ever built.

Although Gateway might not be built for years, the box tunnel — to be built astride a Long Island Rail Road right-of-way — must be built immediately because it will be impossible once Related constructs a deck over the rail yard. Instead, Related will build the box tunnel this year and next simultaneous with construction of the Coach tower and other elements of the 26-acre site, Schumer said.

Building the box tunnel is not expected to interfere with the Coach tower, which is slightly south of the tunnel path through the Hudson Yards site, or with other work Related has planned there.
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  #99  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2013, 8:19 PM
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http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TATE/303039989

Manhattan: High Line park developers will try a new tack
Parts of the final section will be only temporary as surrounding area takes shape.






By Annie Karni
March 3, 2013

Quote:
At West 30th Street and 10th Avenue, a locked metal gate separates the northern end of the High Line from the weedy stretch destined to become its third and final section.

Today, that stretch, which swings out to 12th Avenue before arcing around to its end at West 34th Street near 11th Avenue, is buried beneath 150,000 cubic feet of soil that has accumulated there since the last train—loaded with frozen turkeys—used it back in 1980 and the line fell into disrepair.

Workers are currently digging up the "urban fill" to get to the structure beneath. By June, the last of the decades-old dirt will be gone, and landscapers will be planting, and installing seating and lights. Then, finally, sometime next year the metal gate will come down and visitors will stroll the last half-mile of the world's most famous park on stilts—perhaps stopping at a new picnic area shaded by umbrellas spinning in the wind.

The northernmost leg of the line will be a major departure from the park New Yorkers and tourists have grown to love. For starters, more than half of it will be temporary when it opens. Second, the neighborhood the park will frame does not yet exist. Today, it is a 26-acre storage yard for the Long Island Rail Road. Over the coming years, the Related Cos. will build a platform with 16 buildings, including offices, residences and even a school. A grand new tree-lined Hudson Boulevard will extend northward to West 38th Street

Added value

Already, the developer and the park's designers are expecting to add value to each other. Late last year, Related began work on a 51-story headquarters for luxury-goods maker Coach. That tower will boast a multistory atrium designed to offer sweeping views of the High Line.

"The opportunity to build in the neighborhood—and to have the adjacency to the High Line—is something we're very excited about," said Jason Weisenfeld, senior vice president of global brand communications for Coach.

Park planners, meanwhile, are leaving room in their design for changes as Hudson Yards takes shape. "The High Line will adapt and change gradually with the neighborhood," said Peter Mullan, vice president for planning and design at Friends of the High Line. "It will be a unique vantage point from which to see the transformation of Hudson Yards." To preserve their options, High Line leaders are building more than half of the third section simply as an interim walkway. There, the current, unlandscaped vegetation will remain untouched.

"We will just put down a simple path in the existing landscape," Mr. Mullan said. "On the one hand, it's less capitally intensive. Also, we think it's exciting to allow people to see what the High Line was." That temporary section could remain for 15 years, depending on the pace of progress at Hudson Yards. But building a park in a neighborhood that is also under construction poses some unique problems. The corner of West 30th Street and 10th Avenue is a prime example. There, four building projects are going on simultaneously.

On the north side of the West 30th street, Tower C of Hudson Yards—the commercial tower that will be anchored by Coach headquarters—is under construction. On the south side of the street, a residential building is rising. Beneath the street, city workers are digging deep to install a new water main. And above all that, work crews are rebuilding the High Line. Still, park workers are plunging ahead to meet their deadlines.

"The big idea right now is to get to 34th Street as quickly as we possibly can," said Mr. Mullan as he gave Crain's a tour of the work site. "The big prize here is that the entire length of the High Line is going to be complete much quicker than anyone thought."

In the past two weeks, construction crews completed sandblasting the steel trestle and have begun applying thick coats of "greenblack," the High Line hue marketed nationwide by Sherwin-Williams. Nearly 800 gallons have been applied to the stretch that runs to 12th Avenue.
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  #100  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2013, 5:51 PM
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http://newyork.construction.com/new_...ver-starts.asp

New York City's Tall Towers Take Over Starts





03/01/2013
By Esther DAmico

Quote:
From Hudson Yards' long-awaited $843-million first building to several $150-million-plus towers, the tristate region's ranking of the top 25 projects to break ground last year show that building tall and building big is back. The residential sector, in particular, dominates tower construction on the list, with most buildings advertised as luxury apartments and condos in prime New York City locations.

There is not as much activity on the commercial side, although momentum appears to be gaining speed in and around New York City, Bianco says.

That is backed up by the latest statistics from NYBC, which recently released a report analyzing MHC data on 2008-2012 New York City starts, including new projects as well as alterations and renovations. "While office buildings were conspicuously absent from the top projects list, the sector is off to a very promising start [in] 2013," Anderson said in a statement on the report.

He cites several new mega-commercial developments that, though they took years to start, bode well for industry. These include Related Cos. and Oxford Properties Group's 1.7-million-sq-ft office-retail tower at Hudson Yards, which broke ground last December and is part of a larger $15-billion multiyear development plan. He also cites Brookfield Office Properties' $4.5-billion Manhattan West project that includes one apartment and two office towers. Brookfield broke ground in January on a rail platform over which the 5-million-sq-ft project will be built.
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