Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier
Yes and no. I agree that electrification (under catenary at 25 kV 60 MHz, which all the catenary in the New York metro has slowly gotten converted to, and which any electrification in the Boston area will be at) would have been superior. It would have future-proofed the River Line rail network and made it easier to justify a link between the River Lines and the SEPTA trunkline across the Delaware River, which really should be the long game here.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsy...hore_Lines#RDC
I'm not just talking about whether electrification is necessary for the River Line or the Glassboro line. You have to remember that we're talking about 1950's technology here and it's not necessary to have electrification along the Glassboro or the River line. It's amazing that as recently as the late 1970s that rail service was still feasible from Camden and Philadelphia to Atlantic City, Ocean City, Wildwood, and Cape May with RDC train sets until Penn Central went belly up and it's assets were sold to Conrail.
As a result, Conrail ceased to run it's South Jersey trains until Amtrak stepped up and purchased the Atlantic City line during the 1980's until NJT took over that line in the 1990's. It's almost like asking how many engineers does it take to screw a lightbulb when a much simpler answer should be only one, which is why I didn't like the mode of operation for the River Line because I was afraid that it would delay any hope that heavy rail service would come back to South Jersey with the exception of The Atlantic City line.
Even when trains were starting to get unpopular during the 1950's into the 1980's, NJT could've at least provided some limited service from Camden into the Jersey Shore, not the same service as North Jersey, but more limited, with frequencies between a hour and up to two hours on the weekends. NJT underestimated the riding public in South Jersey, which is why many of the old rail lines had no service and placed all it's eggs in the NYC basket than placing another basket for Philly/South Jersey.
Also, the old Camden Terminal, which had the ferry slip and is where the current BB&T Center is currently located at, was the main rail hub for all of South Jersey. It reminds me a lot about Hoboken, another factory town just across NYC. If the powers that be wanted to replace the old Camden terminal, the best place for it would've been at the current site of the Walter Rand Transportation Center.
The only difference between Hoboken and Camden is that since Hoboken is across Manhattan, the financial and media capital of America and the world, is that Hoboken started to gentrify in the 1980's and transformed into a working class community into an upper class enclave while Camden until recently was bogged down due to deindustrialization, race riots, poverty, marginalization, globalization, and finally rampant violence. It has recently turned a page and recorded it's major crime drop, but Camden is still a shadow of what it once was in the early half of the 20th century.
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=yhs-Lkry-SF01
Click on the second link and you'll see a picture of what Camden Terminal used to look like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier
However, electrification is expensive. Very very expensive. It probably would have sunk this project had they included it. I am not too deterred by the idea of after-the-fact investment in electrification on unelectrified New Jersey Transit lines.
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Read the first paragraph. The old South Jersey lines don't need electrification at all. This isn't SEPTA. It just need a simple diesel generator locomotive that can haul passengers from Camden and Philadelphia into South Jersey town all the way into the Jersey Shore. Does it need to be state of the art or cutting edge just to ensure ridership? Not necessary. It just needs to serve the riding public and I just don't understand why we need to throw money away just to create another gimmick when all that was needed was a simple diesel generator train set, some coaches, and yearly maintenance of the rail lines.
We're not talking placing high-speed rail like the Acela and the new Avella Liberty, but heavy rail commuter service which is common in places like Long Island, Westchester, North Jersey, and the Chicagoland areas. The blame does go the NJT since they didn't know how to manage the rail service and rail frequency in South Jersey compared to North Jersey. If there's less commuters, you run less trains and less passenger coaches, at least an hour every weekday or every two hours every weekend. Mass transit is a big factor why the Greater Philadelphia area hasn't grown as fast as Miami, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, and it's peer cities of DC and Boston.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier
What I am more worried about is that random spur going to downtown Glassboro. WTF is with that? At least the design isn't so harebrained as to preclude extension to Vineland/Millville but Glassboro isn't that large and I don't think that dinky little spur for a single station is going to look like a good idea when the line does get extended south.
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It's not the service to Glassboro that I'm against, but I'd rather see heavy rail and the state of NJ spending less money on decent rail service and rail maintenance than making everything "smoke and mirrors" when we're renovating a line, and the fact that it's light rail is a slap in the face to the great PRR and the RDG. I still feel that the reason why the River Line was so expensive wasn't because it was just light rail, but a lot of the contractors wanted a lot of money (pork) just to place a toy train when all that was needed was to restore rail and place new heavy rail rolling stock onto the River and connect the River Line to Trenton Station via the Northeast Corridor, which would've made more sense than giving the River Line it's own platform across for Trenton Station.
I'm sure that we both agree that service from Camden to Glassboro or Vineland/Millville is sorely needed, however where we differ is not the rail service, but the mode of transport. I'd rather see cheaper heavy rail service than the more expensive light rail. I believe light rail is best when it goes short distances than 20-40 mi. Also, it's more feasible to place heavy rail since those routes used to carry heavy rail trains from Camden to the Jersey Shore. I'm just not a fan of gimmicks and it's one of the reasons why I'm considering leaving Philly for another country because although I'm for service to Glassboro, I still don't agree with how NJ is going at it with light rail for longer distances.
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