Halifax NHL Team

[cormiermax]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'd be interested to see how much expanded seating they would be adding. Anything less than 15,000 is not going to land you an NHL team. Given the age of the Metro Centre a new arena would be preferable for the long run, but a stadium is first and we all know the fun that has brought..

Besides, Halifax is still behind Seattle/Portland, Quebec, Hamilton, Markham, and hell, probably Saskatchewan as well. Not in the near or most likely distant future.

I often hear people put Saskatchewan before Halifax, but have no idea why?

[kph06]

I would rather see a new facility, it's so cut up now, renovating it up to 15,000 seats wouldn't be worth it. Adding boxes to the end without them is the only option I see, but that doesn't even work well as they would be excluded from concerts.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

I often hear people put Saskatchewan before Halifax, but have no idea why?

Proven long-term support for pro sports (Roughriders)

Out-of-proportion (relative to population) producer of NHL players - way out of proportion I think

[cormiermax]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Proven long-term support for pro sports (Roughriders)

Out-of-proportion (relative to population) producer of NHL players - way out of proportion I think

The latter could be said for Nova Scotia as well could it not? As for Roughriders support, the CFL is a long way off from the NHL.

[someone123]

I am not sure that a CFL team is actually a positive in terms of supporting NHL in a small region. It's pretty much moot since neither area will get a team anytime soon, but as I posted in the Canada section people tend to underestimate the Maritimes.

One thing Westerners often don't understand is how geographically small the region is. The central part of the Maritimes has about 50% more people than Saskatchewan and fits into about 10% of Saskatchewan's land area.

CMAs are misleading when you're talking about regional markets where there is little or no competition. The number of people who would be able to get to a downtown Halifax arena in an hour or so is actually pretty close to Winnipeg (because Winnipeg does not have nearby Bridgewater/Lunenburg/Windsor/Kentville/Truro/etc. type towns), and the market for TV or selling merchandise may be larger.

[q12]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'd be interested to see how much expanded seating they would be adding. Anything less than 15,000 is not going to land you an NHL team. Given the age of the Metro Centre a new arena would be preferable for the long run, but a stadium is first and we all know the fun that has brought..

Besides, Halifax is still behind Seattle/Portland, Quebec, Hamilton, Markham, and hell, probably Saskatchewan as well. Not in the near or most likely distant future.

A new arena would be necessary regardless for an NHL team, just look at Hamilton. They have a big enough arena now but said they would still need to build a new one if they acquired an NHL franchise.

I would put Halifax as 3rd in line after Quebec and a Southern Ontario team. Halifax will look dramatically different in 10 years, and I would not be surprised this idea has real momentum by then.

[Nilan8888]

Having worked in Markham, I would be DRASTICALLY disappointed if it got a team before Halifax.

Hamilton I could see. Markham???

Plus, the NHL should consider scrubbing Anaheim, Columbus, Florida, Carolina if Seattle doesn't have a team. I think it's silly for these teams to represent an aggregate community or state. Be from the CITY.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

The latter could be said for Nova Scotia as well could it not? As for Roughriders support, the CFL is a long way off from the NHL.

Not entirely. The number of players in the NHL from Saskatchewan is greater than the number from Nova Scotia. In terms of Canadian sport I wouldn't put the CFL too far off from the NHL, unless of course you're talking about corporate support and TV.

Originally Posted by someone123

One thing Westerners often don't understand is how geographically small the region is. The central part of the Maritimes has about 50% more people than Saskatchewan and fits into about 10% of Saskatchewan's land area.

CMAs are misleading when you're talking about regional markets where there is little or no competition. The number of people who would be able to get to a downtown Halifax arena in an hour or so is actually pretty close to Winnipeg (because Winnipeg does not have nearby Bridgewater/Lunenburg/Windsor/Kentville/Truro/etc. type towns), and the market for TV or selling merchandise may be larger.

You mention the Maritimes having 50% more people but then cut down the driving distance to an hour away...why? Without Southern NB and perhaps PEI the Halifax NHL team today stands even less of a chance of having the fanbase needed to survive. In 25 years? Maybe Halifax on its own could work, but as it stands right now it would not.

Originally Posted by Nilan8888

Plus, the NHL should consider scrubbing Anaheim, Columbus, Florida, Carolina if Seattle doesn't have a team. I think it's silly for these teams to represent an aggregate community or state. Be from the CITY.

You're joking, right? The teams you just listed were (East LA, Columbis, Miami, and Raleigh). And frankly, Anaheim, Columbus, and Carolina all have strong fanbases, whereas the arena that Florida plays out of makes money hand-over-fist each fiscal year. They aren't going anywhere. I agree that Seattle should have a team but prior to this year and they had no owner and no prospects of a new arena being built, which is why they didn't have a team.

Do you think they should be the Denver Avalanche? Newark Devils? Nassau County Islanders? Minneapolis-Saint Paul Wild?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

The latter could be said for Nova Scotia as well could it not? As for Roughriders support, the CFL is a long way off from the NHL.

Not really.

Both provinces have around a million people and there are 6 NHLers from Nova Scotia and 37 from Saskatchewan.

The Riders average around 30,000 fans a game with an average ticket price of about 40 dollars. Total attendance for a season is in the 250-300,000 range.

The best comparison for Halifax is the Mooseheads with an average ticket price of about 15 dollars a game. Average seasonal attendance for them is around 200,000.

Plus Regina already has a 30,000 seat stadium, and is going ahead with the construction of a brand new slightly bigger one that frankly looks like it will be amazing (by CFL standards anyway).

The attendance in Regina at CFL games proves that people from across the province will regularly travel to the capital city to attend sporting events. This is a demonstrated fact.

There is lots of talk about people travelling to Halifax from, say, Moncton, to NHL or CFL games but this has yet to be demonstrated.

Bottom line: SK has a proven track record. Halifax does not. And I say this even though I would love for Halifax to get a CFL or an NHL club. Ideally both.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by JHikka

You mention the Maritimes having 50% more people but then cut down the driving distance to an hour away...why? Without Southern NB and perhaps PEI the Halifax NHL team today stands even less of a chance of having the fanbase needed to survive. In 25 years? Maybe Halifax on its own could work, but as it stands right now it would not.

My point there was that the Halifax market is a bit bigger than it looks relative to Winnipeg, which already has an NHL team, even if you don't include people who are a bit farther away and may be less likely to make the trip (the same thing is true for Southern Ontario vs. the Prairies, but Ontario already has two teams so the dynamic is a little different).

The right way to look at this is that attendance is inversely proportional to distance from the venue, all else being equal. Factors like disposable income are also important. New Brunswick does make up part of the market of regional things that are put in Halifax, but a person in Saint John on average is probably not going to make the trip as often as somebody in Dartmouth. Maybe they'd be equally likely to watch a game on TV or buy a jersey; I have no idea.

The NHL thing isn't going to happen for a while, but over a time frame of 10-20 years it's not a particularly far-fetched scenario. All of the economic factors people talk about like ticket prices or the cost of running a team can change.

[q12]

Halifax Moosehead's average attendance for this year is likely going to be about 300,000.

Halifax is averaging 8500 per home game.
Saskatoon is averaging 5500 per home game (Saskatoon is hosting the memorial cup. Halifax's highest attendance before this year was when they hosted the Memorial cup).
Regina is averaging 4000 per home game.


When it comes to a NHL team

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by q12

Halifax Moosehead's average attendance for this year is likely going to be about 300,000.

Halifax is averaging 8500 per home game.
Saskatoon is averaging 5500 per home game (Saskatoon is hosting the memorial cup. Halifax's highest attendance was when they hosted the Memorial cup).
Regina is averaging 4000 per home game.

And in 10-11 Halifax' average attendance was 5,330. Attendances, particularly for junior hockey, will go up and down depending on the quality of team/playoff ranking.

I'm curious where you are getting your numbers from.

[q12]

Originally Posted by JHikka

And in 10-11 Halifax' average attendance was 5,330. Attendances, particularly for junior hockey, will go up and down depending on the quality of team/playoff ranking.

I'm curious where you are getting your numbers from.

I find this site is always up to date.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...l19702013.html

Halifax was one of the worst teams in the league. Saint John won the championship and we still had higher attendance...

[Dmajackson]

IMO I think a NHL team is unfeasible at this current moment. However, I think we could look at one in about 20-25 years time after the shipbuilding winds down and we have close to 500'000 people in addition to the growth in Moncton.

For now I vote that we keep on breeding some of the best players in the NHL. Let Quebec get a team (which theoretically could draw people from as far away as Edmunston), followed by a Southern Ontarian team.

Once we do get a team though we'll have to remind people that we tend to whoop a** at things we create so hockey should be a piece of cake.

Halifax Origins (in the spirit of our hockey legacy)
Halifax Hurricanes (we can call the fans Juan-a-be's)
Halifax Nauticals
Halifax Defenders
Halifax Explosion / Exploders
Nova Scotia Highlanders
Maritime Uniters

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by q12

Halifax was one of the worst teams in the league. Saint John won the championship and we still had higher attendance...

Are you trying to take a shot at my location or something? The Metro Centre holds~4,000 more than Harbour Station...even if the average was within 1,000 Halifax should be ashamed of themselves, but it isn't so it's a non-factor. My point was that attendances fluctuate depending on how well the team is doing that year. These fluctuations are higher as the attendance number increases. I can guarantee you that Halifax' attendance will go down again as the team goes back into its downcycle.

[Nilan8888]

You're joking, right? The teams you just listed were (East LA, Columbis, Miami, and Raleigh). And frankly, Anaheim, Columbus, and Carolina all have strong fanbases, whereas the arena that Florida plays out of makes money hand-over-fist each fiscal year. They aren't going anywhere. I agree that Seattle should have a team but prior to this year and they had no owner and no prospects of a new arena being built, which is why they didn't have a team.

Do you think they should be the Denver Avalanche? Newark Devils? Nassau County Islanders? Minneapolis-Saint Paul Wild?

I think it's dumb that Miami has a team and Seattle does not by virtue of where it is on the map. I think it's dumb that Seattle does not have one but Colombus and Raleigh do by virtue of their respective sizes.

Anaheim should just call themselves the Los Angeles something, like other teams that share a city (LA itself with the Raiders and Rams once upon a time, NY with the Rangers and Islanders). Plus being named after a Disney movie is silly.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Nilan8888

I think it's dumb that Miami has a team and Seattle does not by virtue of where it is on the map. I think it's dumb that Seattle does not have one but Colombus and Raleigh do by virtue of their respective sizes.

Anaheim should just call themselves the Los Angeles something, like other teams that share a city (LA itself with the Raiders and Rams once upon a time, NY with the Rangers and Islanders). Plus being named after a Disney movie is silly.

The NHL expansion of the 1990s was in the aim of getting a national TV deal in the states, which Florida would play a big part of. The Pac-NW, at the time, still had the Sonics, and there was no owner for a franchise. There was, and still is, an owner for the Panthers. In the North American franchise system locations aren't picked because of where they are or how big they are, but whether or not there is an owner and a fanbase. I imagine we'll be seeing a team in Seattle within 10 years now that there is interest and a new rink being built. If you don't like teams in certain places being in the league I guess that would make you a bigger fan of the club & association system rather than the franchise system of sport structure.

Anaheim can call themselves whatever they like. They clearly don't have a problem with their name and neither do their fans. Do you feel the same about the Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles in the MLB? I don't see what difference it makes if they're called Anaheim, or Los Angeles, or whatever else they like. Does it really bother you that much?

[Trevor3]

Originally Posted by Nilan8888

I think it's dumb that Miami has a team and Seattle does not by virtue of where it is on the map. I think it's dumb that Seattle does not have one but Colombus and Raleigh do by virtue of their respective sizes.

Anaheim should just call themselves the Los Angeles something, like other teams that share a city (LA itself with the Raiders and Rams once upon a time, NY with the Rangers and Islanders). Plus being named after a Disney movie is silly.

Miami was the product of the NHL's big southern expansion of the early 90s. They wanted in with the huge population of Florida and figured 2 teams would result in a natural rivalry and help prop each other up. Thus we got Tampa and Miami (now in Sunrise, FL by the way, not Miami). The stadium makes money but the team is essentially an afterthought. But it's all the same company so they won't go anywhere anytime soon.

Columbus was, in my opinion, the smartest move by the NHL in its 90s expansion aside from going back to Minnesota. Columbus has a suprisingly large population and absolutely no major league presence aside from the Blue Jackets. Columbus had one of the best attendance records in the NHL for their first few seasons despite the fact they were god awful year after year. And it took a cup win in Raleigh to get the ball rolling. If they continue to sit low in the standings their attendance will start to fall much like Dallas did.

[resetcbu1]

Honestly. I believe that all the population stats CHL attendance stats and blah blah blah all moot, in that I don't think Halifax would have any problems selling out a 15000-17000 person arena.... This is Canada and we are hockey crazy coast to coast and any city 400000+ in this country would more than likely have a good fanbase

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

Honestly. I believe that all the population stats CHL attendance stats and blah blah blah all moot, in that I don't think Halifax would have any problems selling out a 15000-17000 person arena.... This is Canada and we are hockey crazy coast to coast and any city 400000+ in this country would more than likely have a good fanbase

Franchise System = Owner & Arena > Fanbase