DND Shipbuilding Contract

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I hope we get it, and yet..... It is so much money that the various power elites, cliques, special interest groups and old bous won't have to change ANYTHING, we can use the cash to paper over our fundamental, foundational issues as a society and a province.

There are problems but I think you are mixing up cause and effect. I believe the problems are in part caused by a lackluster economy (perennial problem) that has led to outmigration of many of the most talented. At the same time the "power elite" who benefit from the system tend to remain and become increasingly conservative because their options are limited. This sort of downward spiral is taken to extremes in Third World countries, where a tiny kleptocracy feed off of a giant pool of oppressed, unproductive workers. The NS equivalent is to have a bunch of monopolists and government bureaucrats taxing a Wal-Mart economy. NS is not quite there but that's what failure will look like if it happens.

The absolute best thing for NS would be to promote a variety of economic activity that would encourage the best and brightest to stay behind. Shipbuilding could do this to some degree, especially to the extent that it promotes local technological development. Tech startups themselves (software companies, biotech, etc.) are an excellent spot for NS to invest money. Dalhousie is already churning out some startups but the effect could be much larger.

I am actually pretty optimistic simply because of a couple of factors that should have positive effects but are not really influenced much by poor local management. The biggest factor is technological improvements that are equivalent to bringing NS closer and closer to other areas, making it an easier place for people and businesses to locate in.

A smaller factor is continued population growth; as Halifax becomes a medium-sized city it will appeal to a wider range of people and will lose its parochial small town feel.

Some other environmental factors also make Halifax a pretty nice spot. The city is historic and walkable, it has pleasant, pretty tolerant inhabitants, transportation connections are pretty good, and the climate is not too bad. The overall quality of life stacks up very well against other North American cities. Traditionally the sticking point has been the lack of jobs.

[Empire]

I would be willing to bet if we win the 25 billion contract that every proposal on paper will start immediately and that amount would double in one year.........

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

I would be willing to bet if we win the 25 billion contract that every proposal on paper will start immediately and that amount would double in one year.........

I can think of at least one project that would be easier to justify if Irving gets the contract. But I will stay on topic and not mention which one .

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Oh, fer crissakes...

The change you want, and the change I want, are not all that different... if the province was flush with cash, do you think the politics as usual would be far behind, or at least that a large number of folks would hope that was the case?

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by someone123

There are problems but I think you are mixing up cause and effect. I believe the problems are in part caused by a lackluster economy (perennial problem) that has led to outmigration of many of the most talented. At the same time the "power elite" who benefit from the system tend to remain and become increasingly conservative because their options are limited. This sort of downward spiral is taken to extremes in Third World countries, where a tiny kleptocracy feed off of a giant pool of oppressed, unproductive workers. The NS equivalent is to have a bunch of monopolists and government bureaucrats taxing a Wal-Mart economy. NS is not quite there but that's what failure will look like if it happens.

The absolute best thing for NS would be to promote a variety of economic activity that would encourage the best and brightest to stay behind. Shipbuilding could do this to some degree, especially to the extent that it promotes local technological development. Tech startups themselves (software companies, biotech, etc.) are an excellent spot for NS to invest money. Dalhousie is already churning out some startups but the effect could be much larger.

I am actually pretty optimistic simply because of a couple of factors that should have positive effects but are not really influenced much by poor local management. The biggest factor is technological improvements that are equivalent to bringing NS closer and closer to other areas, making it an easier place for people and businesses to locate in.

A smaller factor is continued population growth; as Halifax becomes a medium-sized city it will appeal to a wider range of people and will lose its parochial small town feel.

Some other environmental factors also make Halifax a pretty nice spot. The city is historic and walkable, it has pleasant, pretty tolerant inhabitants, transportation connections are pretty good, and the climate is not too bad. The overall quality of life stacks up very well against other North American cities. Traditionally the sticking point has been the lack of jobs.

No, no, I agree with all your points, but you need leadership to get us out of the mire...

[-Harlington-]

That is an impressive map posted by halifaxboyns there

love the support across the country for this

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by someone123

A smaller factor is continued population growth; as Halifax becomes a medium-sized city it will appeal to a wider range of people and will lose its parochial small town feel.

Some other environmental factors also make Halifax a pretty nice spot. The city is historic and walkable, it has pleasant, pretty tolerant inhabitants, transportation connections are pretty good, and the climate is not too bad. The overall quality of life stacks up very well against other North American cities. Traditionally the sticking point has been the lack of jobs.

Halifax is the perfect summer city.

And as Halifax's population grows it will be evermore important to focus on a majority of this being urban; otherwise, increasing our roadways will have to be a high priority since our sprawl will throw a lot of cars at us.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Halifax is the perfect summer city.

And as Halifax's population grows it will be evermore important to focus on a majority of this being urban; otherwise, increasing our roadways will have to be a high priority since our sprawl will throw a lot of cars at us.

Shhh... the BANANAS will hear you!

[Chadillaccc]

Sooo excited for you guys down in Halifax!!! Good luck, I really hope it gets awarded to you. Maybe North Vancouver will get the smaller one? Would be cool to have a project on each of the coasts

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Sooo excited for you guys down in Halifax!!! Good luck, I really hope it gets awarded to you. Maybe North Vancouver will get the smaller one? Would be cool to have a project on each of the coasts

Love it. Everyone I know in Vancouver has shown support for Halifax's win. I guess for Canadians, the location isn't the only important element, but the ownership of the shipyard is too.

Irving Shipyard is Canadian owned; Halifax's bid is Canada's bid.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Sooo excited for you guys down in Halifax!!! Good luck, I really hope it gets awarded to you. Maybe North Vancouver will get the smaller one? Would be cool to have a project on each of the coasts

That would great and if politics doesn't get in the way is the way it should be awarded.

[Chadillaccc]

I think in general everyone just loves Halifax and would love to see the city get what it deserves and get its long awaited economic boost

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I think in general everyone just loves Halifax and would love to see the city get what it deserves and get its long awaited economic boost

The shipbuilding contract would bring about a Halifax renaissance. Originally founded as a military post, this tiny town will be able to get back to its roots!

[q12]

FAQ: Halifax shipbuilding bid

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...lding-bid.html
CBC News Posted: Oct 14, 2011 8:22 PM AT
Last Updated: Oct 14, 2011 8:28 PM AT

The Irving-owned Halifax Shipyard is hoping to land a major shipbuilding contract that would refloat the Nova Scotia economy.

The federal government plans to revitalize Canada's moribund shipbuilding industry and provide new vessels to the navy and coast guard over 30 years.

Only two shipyards can win the lion's share of the $35-million procurement strategy – the largest shipbuilding program in Canadian history.

What are the projects?
The biggest one – a contract worth an estimated $25 billion – is to build new combat vessels for the navy. These are offshore and Arctic patrol ships, as well as destroyers and frigates to replace the current fleet.

The second contract, worth $8 billion, is to build non-combat ships. These include support ships for the navy, science vessels for the coast guard and a new icebreaker.

A shipyard cannot win both projects. The two winners are banned from applying for contracts worth $2 billion to build smaller boats.

What's at stake?
Irving Shipbuilding owns the Halifax Shipyard, where there are currently 1,000 full-time workers. The yard has a contract for $194 million to build nine coast guard patrol vessels. A $549 million-contract to refit seven navy frigates is set to run out in 2018.

Those contracts pale in comparison to the new shipbuilding contracts.

The direct and indirect spinoffs from the shipbuilding program are said to be worth $800 million a year to the Nova Scotia economy. In fact, Premier Darrell Dexter calls it the biggest economic opportunity for Nova Scotia since Confederation.

A study commissioned by the Greater Halifax Partnership says if Halifax wins the big contract, it would mean 11,500 jobs – both direct and indirect – in the province during the program's peak years. As an average, that's about 8,500 jobs per year for 30 years.

The rest of the country would benefit from 4,500 jobs.

If Halifax wins the smaller $8-billion contract, it would mean 10,000 jobs during the peak years, but an average of 3,700 jobs a year, according to the Conference Board of Canada study.

Either way, the workforce at the Halifax Shipyard would more than double in size to peak at 2,500 workers.

Another part of the study breaks down the yearly spinoffs in Nova Scotia during peak construction years:

420 new homes
750 new car sales
$38.5 million in groceries
$11 million in restaurant meals
Hundreds of suppliers stand to benefit. Irving confirms that its shipyards in Shelburne, N.S., and Georgetown, P.E.I., would also gain from shipbuilding work if it wins a big contract.

More here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...lding-bid.html

This is making me giddy....

When we win this we gotta build a 25,000 seat permanent stadium atleast!

[Jstaleness]

Originally Posted by q12

This is making me giddy....

When we win this we gotta build a 25,000 seat permanent stadium atleast!

Man you have to think that if we do win one of the larger contracts it would be a no brainer. It certainly would help us to build a case for the CFL. Hey guys, for the next 25 years we have huge government funds coming in to our city and province. If you are serious about expanding to the east,well now is the time.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

Man you have to think that if we do win one of the larger contracts it would be a no brainer. It certainly would help us to build a case for the CFL. Hey guys, for the next 25 years we have huge government funds coming in to our city and province. If you are serious about expanding to the east,well now is the time.

You are quite right: now definitely is the time.

We need to make bold decisions going forward--and this must be done in cooperation throughout the Maritimes. Though there will be obvious competition, there are many ways by which the Maritime cities can work with each other's markets.

As Halifax gains confidence and begins to make bigger investments in several industries, other cities can find ways to work off of this. Halifax's Atlantic Gateway, for example, is something on which the HRM will place greater financial attention. Other cities, Moncton being one, have the opportunity to push toward complimentary industries to meet Halifax's demand: in this case, high-speed rail.

A drastic increase in retail sales throughout the Maritimes, due to local tourism out of Halifax, will be the least of what is in store.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I hope you are joking with the high speed rail comment. I mean, LRT is definitely feasible in HRM... but high speed rail between cities in the maritimes? The construction cost per capita wouldn't even make it possible.

[haligonia]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I hope you are joking with the high speed rail comment. I mean, LRT is definitely feasible in HRM... but high speed rail between cities in the maritimes? The construction cost per capita wouldn't even make it possible.

Exactly. As much as I would love to see it happen, high-speed rail wouldn't work in the Maritimes. Either the frequency would be so low that it would be impractical, or the costs would be too high to run a frequent service for such a limited ridership.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

I hope you are joking with the high speed rail comment. I mean, LRT is definitely feasible in HRM... but high speed rail between cities in the maritimes? The construction cost per capita wouldn't even make it possible.

I don't find much comic relief in numbers, so no I wasn't joking.
This is something which would benefit from federal attention.

It's obvious that high speed rail is immediately out of the picture. What is also obvious is that Canada is currently the only developed nation not investing in high speed rail. Even the U.S., puttering about as it is, is looking to create jobs through an investment in this modern technology--which adds power to all economic industries depending on its service.

China is putting the world to shame in this regard of advancement. This advancement, the advantage to ship product faster, is ultimately what is at the core of Halifax's Atlantic Gateway.

I have no clue as to how serious we are taking this. If there is a massive spike in container traffic--which there has been, and will be--then an increased amount of political attention may draw some appetite for investment in this enterprise.

Look. Until something changes, then we shall continue using the existing rail, obviously; I'm just hopefully for the well-being of other cities in the Maritimes. A growing sector in the Maritimes is shipping. Since speed is vital for this industry--and the choice of Halifax for these Chinese and Indian ships means cutting days off their journeys--Moncton's previous experience in the rail industry is just an example of an opportunity to reinvest. Halifax's geographical pro would be dimenished by an American high speed rail venture for New England, which is the biggest population center Halifax's Atlantic Gateway is attempting to service--or is this a joke? It's not a joke for the shipping ports of New England; they'll take the damn business.

With Halifax's recent growth and possible boom, Moncton and other cities have an opportunity to reinvest.

I say 'reinvest', because there was a time when this wasn't a joke.

[Jstaleness]

Right now there are plans to have high speed rail between US and 3 of Canada's biggest cities before 2020. Those being Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. Very highly populated and frequent buses running more than once an hour between some. Passenger high speed won't happen here in the Maritimes but it is possible that it could work for the shipping industry. Sure would be nice to be able to get containers off the ships and onto trains that can do excess of 220kph. I'm not sure what cost vs. savings would be but with cost of fuel and maintenance it might balance out.