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View Poll Results: Should Edmonton abandon the trolley bus system ?
Yes 34 49.28%
No 35 50.72%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2007, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
It's not about the trolley lines in general being the single detrimental factor that causes ugliness. Down Jasper the trolley lines look fine because they're properly supported off fixed poles, and the profile of the buildings on either side make them less noticeable. It's about specific neighborhoods where upgrades are taking place and the issues surrounding maintaining the old infrastructure, and yes, making it look better. The second picture you posted looks like shit too, the street in the first picture has the advantage of being wide & open, like Whyte is. Really old streets are far narrower making the overhead clutter all that much more undesireable. I still don't have a concrete opinion on this matter, but buying some brand new trollies to replace the old ones sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the routes can be altered to alleviate some of the messes over the intersections where there are more guy wires and support poles.

Anyways I'm off to this meeting. Maybe some better options will be presented
Wasn't that the premise of my post? Beautification can be done to make the over head wires a non-issue?
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  #42  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2007, 4:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
the agenda will be getting rid of the sports theme on the ave, including removing the baseball bat,.
oh good god thank you, everytime visitors come into town I have to explain that. :/
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  #43  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2007, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Hardhatdan View Post
Holy cr*p...once again the system needs new trolleys, there is nothing wrong with the actual overhead infrastructure. I am sure it has about a 99% uptime.

The only way this debate is even happening is because there is agenda present to get rid of the trolleys and by letting the old ones continue to be in service, it makes the system look bad.

ONCE AGAIN, REMOVING THE TROLLEYS DOES NOT MEAN OR GUARANTEE THAT THE OVER HEAD LINES WILL BE REMOVED, SO IF THAT IS YOUR MAIN CONCERN THAN YOU SHOULD RE-EVALUATE YOUR POSITION.
Wow. The question was simply 'should Edmonton abandon the trolley bus system?'. He was asking our opinions.

IMO the lines don't look good and it would look better without them. I also hate all the exposed power lines in older areas like on 99th street on the southside or 51st ave. I'm not saying either needs to be removed asap, I understand it would cost a lot of money and there are better things that could be done with that money, but I can still have that opinion.

And I never made a comment regarding the uptime of the lines. I was referring to the fact that many times because of construction on the roads, the trolley busses are unable to travel their intended routes so so the city is forced to use diesel buses anyway. And this happened a few times last summer. Plus because of the possibility of a bus coming off the line, ETS always has one diesel bus on stand by for every trolley on the road. I simply don't find that a very efficient system.

So I would be happy to see the city replace them with other low emission buses.

Holy cr*p lol
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  #44  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2007, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chuber View Post
Wow. The question was simply 'should Edmonton abandon the trolley bus system?'. He was asking our opinions.

IMO the lines don't look good and it would look better without them. I also hate all the exposed power lines in older areas like on 99th street on the southside or 51st ave. I'm not saying either needs to be removed asap, I understand it would cost a lot of money and there are better things that could be done with that money, but I can still have that opinion.

And I never made a comment regarding the uptime of the lines. I was referring to the fact that many times because of construction on the roads, the trolley busses are unable to travel their intended routes so so the city is forced to use diesel buses anyway. And this happened a few times last summer. Plus because of the possibility of a bus coming off the line, ETS always has one diesel bus on stand by for every trolley on the road. I simply don't find that a very efficient system.

So I would be happy to see the city replace them with other low emission buses.

Holy cr*p lol
So true, but cannot wait until next year when we have that possibility to renew the fleet with new trolleybuses that 'can' maneuver around road construction without the need of standby diesels?

I've been saying it over and over again, but we still have short-minded people roaming around. New trolleybuses do not need backup diesel buses. They can run a kilometer or so without overhead. Therefore, no more delays and frustrated passengers.
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  #45  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2007, 1:36 AM
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I think once Edmonton has a greater LRT expansion then We could look at getting rid of the trollys.
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  #46  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2007, 2:08 PM
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Calgary got rid of their trolly's decades ago and if they had of waited until more recently, it would have been tons more work and money to take them down. Having said that, I really do like the clutter of the roads on places like Edmonton and Vancouver from the lines and Calgary, to me at least, comes across as trying to be too 'un-cluttered'.

So my vote is keep the current system so long as they upgrade it like was mentioned earlier.
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  #47  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2007, 12:00 AM
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Keep the trolley infrastructure, plant some trees, buy a new trolley fleet

I strongly recommend Edmonton retain its trolley infrastructure and the transit authority should buy a new fleet of trolley buses while the City plants trees to improve street aesthetics. (Seriously, where are the trees?)

As I see it the main point of contention for trolley buses is the perception by some that their overhead wires are visually undesirable and that a street would be nicer without them. I vigorously disagree with this position. The visual pollution, as some call it, is subjective at best and car-centric NIMBYism at worst. Plant some street trees along the trolley bus corridors, actually plant them everywhere. Trees improve the aesthetic of a street and visually block a great deal of the overhead wire infrastructure for pedestrians while simultaneously providing shade and creating a more bucolic people-oriented streetscape that benefits businesses. The streets featured in these images are severely lacking in pedestrian-oriented aesthetics and street trees and is, frankly, like looking back at archival photos. I applaud the neighbourhood association’s efforts to redesign the street but plant some trees first and lobby the city to up-zone the whole area and attract multi-storey mixed-use development that will invigorate the street and diminish the visual significance of the overhead wire infrastructure. Also, re-imagine what the overhead wires represent and internalize the fact that trolley infrastructure equals quieter streets.

While the visual aesthetic of overhead transit wires is subjective and up for debate, the fact that diesel buses are noisy and electric trolleys are virtually silent is not. Trolley buses promote a more pedestrian-oriented street while diesel buses are noisy and a significant impediment to a vibrant high-street. Trolley buses are also less expensive to operate, have a longer life-span, and are now able to be offered in low-floor models that are fully accessible, which is a major plus for transit systems that are endeavouring to meet the needs of an aging population.

Regarding the appearance of trolley buses, Vancouver is in the process of taking delivery of a new fleet of 227 trolley buses from New Flyer. One fifth of these will be high-capacity articulated models. They continue to feature the regenerative breaking technology of the fleet from the 1980s that they are replacing and again have the ability to exit an intersection on battery power if they derail. They are low-floor and can accommodate two wheelchair patrons and have a bike rack in front for two bikes. They are bright and spacious inside and offer significantly more legroom than the buses they are replacing. The trolley body is standard New Flyer and maintenance should be simplified by having one standardized chassis for all future New Flyer buses, including the several hundred diesel and natural gas buses that are on order and in the process of being delivered.

The new New Flyer trolley buses (standard 40ft and articulated 60ft)







And typical Vancouver streetscapes with overhead trolley infrastructure. (‘sure doesn’t ruin the view in my opinion)









(that's the tail end of an example of our old early-1980s New Flyer fleet)

Last edited by SFUVancouver; Apr 22, 2007 at 12:17 AM.
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  #48  
Old Posted May 26, 2007, 9:08 PM
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Cost benefits please?

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Originally Posted by RicoLance21 View Post
So true, but cannot wait until next year when we have that possibility to renew the fleet with new trolleybuses that 'can' maneuver around road construction without the need of standby diesels?

I've been saying it over and over again, but we still have short-minded people roaming around. New trolleybuses do not need backup diesel buses. They can run a kilometer or so without overhead. Therefore, no more delays and frustrated passengers.
The new trolley buses cannot 'maneuver around road construction', they do have enough power to "to exit an intersection on battery power if they derail."

I have been on more than a few Translink New Flyer Trolleys in Vancouver that have derailed and been caught in the middle of an intersection. I have seen the operator having failed to get back on the lines with the computer controlled system after exhausting all the power needing to get out and attempt to re attach manually (and by seeing SFUVancouver's photo of the placement of the arms, it wasn't nearly as easy as the old buses with the rear access arms.

Edmonton should re-evaluate on a pure cost benifit analysis. My gut sense tells me that hybrid buses are the way to go, especially for congested routes with lots of stop and go.
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  #49  
Old Posted May 26, 2007, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kyle_olsen View Post
The new trolley buses cannot 'maneuver around road construction', they do have enough power to "to exit an intersection on battery power if they derail."

I have been on more than a few Translink New Flyer Trolleys in Vancouver that have derailed and been caught in the middle of an intersection. I have seen the operator having failed to get back on the lines with the computer controlled system after exhausting all the power needing to get out and attempt to re attach manually (and by seeing SFUVancouver's photo of the placement of the arms, it wasn't nearly as easy as the old buses with the rear access arms.

Edmonton should re-evaluate on a pure cost benifit analysis. My gut sense tells me that hybrid buses are the way to go, especially for congested routes with lots of stop and go.
The way you mentioned about unable to maneuver around road construction, then there would have been very little purpose of having a battery on board, is it not? Would the information from the New Flyer website below be misleading then? Otherwise, you were on a trolleybus that may already be low on battery before it was dewired.

http://www.newflyer.com/index/trolley

To be honest, with such a large battery on the roof, I never believe a trolleybus would only run a distance of an intersection anyway. 5-10 blocks sounds more realistic, because I've been to trolleybus cities other than Vancouver, like Shanghai.

Last edited by RicoLance21; May 26, 2007 at 10:56 PM.
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  #50  
Old Posted May 27, 2007, 9:00 PM
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"To be honest, with such a large battery on the roof, I never believe a trolleybus would only run a distance of an intersection anyway. 5-10 blocks sounds more realistic, because I've been to trolleybus cities other than Vancouver, like Shanghai."

The New Flyer site says "maneuver around obstructions without difficulty." This I would suppose would be a broken down car in a trolley lane. 5-10 blocks is a very long distance, and I would think if a company had accomplished such a feat they would trumpet it on their promotional materials (especially when they sell trolley buses for twice the price as a normal bus). I do not deny that such a bus is possible, just that my experience with the New Flyer buses in Vancouver is not in line with your expectations on performance.
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  #51  
Old Posted May 29, 2007, 6:03 AM
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Get rid of the trolleys! Should have been done 25 years ago - I hate those overhead wires.
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  #52  
Old Posted May 29, 2007, 2:53 PM
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^i love em...vancouver has them too...and imo they make it feel like more of an urban setting
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  #53  
Old Posted May 29, 2007, 2:54 PM
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double post - oops
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Last edited by Coldrsx; May 29, 2007 at 3:00 PM.
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  #54  
Old Posted May 29, 2007, 4:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craner View Post
Get rid of the trolleys! Should have been done 25 years ago - I hate those overhead wires.
You Calgarians still have overhead wires running through downtown along 7th Avenue.

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Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
^i love em...vancouver has them too...and imo they make it feel like more of an urban setting
I also have that same feel with the overhead wires, but only with buildings and/or trees in the background. I think wires and an open sky don't mix. It's more of a proper excuse to beautify streets, which is a win-win situation.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2007, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by craner View Post
Get rid of the trolleys! Should have been done 25 years ago - I hate those overhead wires.
Keep them! Those overhead wires are progressive in that they serve Zero Emission vehicles. Here in San Francisco, some of the trolley wires have been given a cleaner look while other overhead wires have been under grounded. Electric buses are important in the fight against global warming and should be used in more cities, not less.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2007, 9:07 PM
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zero emission? You mean zero local emission. That electricity came from somewhere.
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  #57  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2018, 6:25 AM
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To those who hate overhead wires, did you guys grow up without them? I grew up with overhead tram wires and as a child, it never occurred to me as an eyesore.

Get this, no city that still has trams has plans for complete abandonment, and many others have brought them back or have plans to do so, yet some cities, including Edmonton and Wellington (the latter in New Zealand) have abandoned trolleybuses.
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  #58  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2018, 2:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Myrtonos View Post
To those who hate overhead wires, did you guys grow up without them? I grew up with overhead tram wires and as a child, it never occurred to me as an eyesore.

Get this, no city that still has trams has plans for complete abandonment, and many others have brought them back or have plans to do so, yet some cities, including Edmonton and Wellington (the latter in New Zealand) have abandoned trolleybuses.
Woot, woot - 10+ year bump.
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  #59  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2018, 6:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Myrtonos View Post
To those who hate overhead wires, did you guys grow up without them? I grew up with overhead tram wires and as a child, it never occurred to me as an eyesore.

Get this, no city that still has trams has plans for complete abandonment, and many others have brought them back or have plans to do so, yet some cities, including Edmonton and Wellington (the latter in New Zealand) have abandoned trolleybuses.
I grew up with them and was elated when they got rid of them.
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  #60  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2018, 12:50 PM
Myrtonos Myrtonos is offline
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Okay, have you hated them for as long as you remember them? I have expected most complaints about them to be from people who aren't used to them, especially if they grew up without them.
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