CFL in the Maritimes

[MonctonRad]

Mount Allison Mounties vs. Saint Mary's Huskeys tonight in Moncton at 7 PM at Rocky Stone Field.

This is part of the 50th Anniversary celebrations for the Moncton Minor Football Association. Events have been ongoing all year, including an appearance by the Grey Cup itself and about a half dozen former CFL stars at Rocky Stone during the last spring league practice in June.

The timing of this football game unfortunately is pretty bad. It conflicts with the Moncton Wildcats and Lewiston Maniacs QMJHL game. In addition, this will be the first game to be played with Kirill Kabanov in a 'cats uniform. The Wildcats won the arbitration dispute with the Russian Kontinental League team with the IIHF ruling in our favour. Kabanov is expected to be a top five NHL draft pick so I imagine there will be a lot of people at the hockey game.

Too bad, I'd really like to take in the football game but since I have 'cats season's tickets, I imagine I'll likely hit the hockey game instead.

The Atlantic Division of the Q is really competitive this year. Lots of good hockey. The only team that sucks is Halifax. The Mooseheads are arguably the worst team in the CHL this year. They'll be lucky to get a dozen wins all season.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Mount Allison Mounties vs. Saint Mary's Huskeys tonight in Moncton at 7 PM at Rocky Stone Field.

The timing of this football game unfortunately is pretty bad. It conflicts with the Moncton Wildcats and Lewiston Maniacs QMJHL game.

Too bad, I'd really like to take in the football game but since I have 'cats season's tickets, I imagine I'll likely hit the hockey game instead.

I hope that isn't a typical view held by people in Moncton. A once in a blue moon opportunity to watch college football vs. a hockey team you can see any time and you choose hockey? As much as I believe football is viable in the Maritimes, preferences like the one you just made send up so many red flags, I don't even know where to begin.

Lewiston who?

[MonctonRad]

It's not difficult to go to a Mt. A. football game, it's only half an hour down the road..........in many ways, Mt. A. is a "Moncton" university.

The attraction of the hockey game was Kirill Kabanov, not the Lewiston (Maine) Maniacs. This was his first game as a Wildcat, with the Wildcats just having won an IIHF arbitration with a Russian Kontinental League team. He is projected to go in the top five in the NHL draft this year. In many ways, this was more of a one-of-a-kind event than the football game.

You can rest assured that as far as professional CFL football is concerned, there would be no competition with the Wildcats. I love the Wildcats but you do have to have your priorities straight. In a head-to-head conflict I would go to the football game.

Moncton is a sports crazy city, we have the third highest attendance in the QMJHL, behind only Quebec City and Halifax. So far this year, the average attendance at Wildcats games is over 5200, just slightly behind Halifax.

In any event, the hockey game was great. Moncton won 2-0. Kabanov did not disappoint. He scored the game winning goal and was named the first star. He is obviously gifted and probably will be up there with Ovechkin and Malkin when he develops. Interestingly, the game was a showcase for the Wildcats up and coming stars. Brandon Gormley scored the other goal and Louis Domingue got the shutout.

Both Kabanov and Gormley are expected to be first rounders in the NHL draft. There is also a school of thought that Domingue might be as well.

Go 'Cats!!!!!!

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It's not difficult to go to a Mt. A. football game, it's only half an hour down the road..........in many ways, Mt. A. is a "Moncton" university.

My concern is whether Moncton is predominantly a hockey town, or a football town. The answer to that question will certainly be studied closely by the CFL. I can assure you that they're also going to look at how well Moncton supports the football teams it currently has. That means all the high school teams, the number of boys playing football in the Moncton area, but also support for the college football team.

If, as you argue, Mt. Allison should be considered a Moncton university, their attendance numbers will be looked at. The support Moncton's population gives to this school's football team isn't very impressive. I post quite often on cisfootball.org and have been monitoring attendance levels at college football games across Canada. Mt. Allison attendance hovers around 2,000/game.

It should be noted that Moncton's biggest competition for a CFL franchise will come from Halifax and Quebec City. How does attendance at a regular season game at Mt. Allison compare to that of Saint Mary's and Laval? A typical Saint Mary's crowd is from 3,500 to 5,000. At Laval it's from 12,500 to 17,000. That's right, 17,000 for college football! It's not a typo.


http://www.quebechebdo.com/imgs/dyna...r_Peps_net.jpg
http://www.universitesquebecoises.ca...es/laval_2.jpg

I'm not pointing these things out to be a prick. I'd love for Moncton to get a team, but if you guys are serious about landing a football team, you need to start putting your money where your mouth is. That doesn't start next year with the CFL exhibition game. It starts now with 5,000-10,000 of you turning out to Mt. Allison games and good crowds at high school games. It also means showing up when Mt. Allison drives 30 minutes up the highway to play within Moncton city limits.

It doesn't matter that this is a college football team. A population that loves the sport of football will go to watch the football team it has. In Moncton that means Mt. Allison. People who love football don't ignore a team because it's not a professional team like you just did. If you look at all the cities in Canada without a pro team, they support their college teams. University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon? Saint Mary's in Halifax? UWO in London? Laval in Quebec City? Queen's in Kingston?

That Moncton doesn't support it's current football team, Mt. Allison, doesn't reflect well. If you were Mark Cohon, what is going to look best on paper? 17,000 people turning out to college football in Quebec City or 2,000 turning out to college football in Moncton? What happens next year with that exhibition game will matter a great deal, but you've already got some catching up to do to look as good as Quebec City in the eyes of the CFL. They are going to look at this.

I guarantee you that the CFL is salivating over those Laval numbers.

[MonctonRad]

Mount Allison doesn't have a football stadium.......they play on a field in the centre of the campus, surrounded by academic buildings and residences. There are a few bleachers and a small grandstand but most people stand or sit on a small hillside when they go to games. It would be very difficult to have attendance levels of more than 2,000 people per game. They don't have the capacity.

Another thing is that Mt. A. is a small undergrad liberal arts university with an enrollment of only about 2,200 so, an average crowd at the games of about 2,000 is pretty good.

Actually, playing at the MFA Rocky Stone Field would have been a step up for the Mounties.......artficial turf, a proper grandstand, proper nightlighting.....

Moncton is admittedly a hockey town but there is also a surprisingly strong football tradition here as well. the MFA is 50 years old. All local high schools have both junior and senior varsity teams. I don't have actual numbers but I imagine there are at least 1,500 boys involved in minor football in the Moncton area. High school games are well attended and have a good atmosphere.

Below is a picture incidentally from the front page of the T&T yesterday showing a couple of Harrrison Trimble High School football supporters.



Moncton is a hockey town but football is big too. There is not necessarily a conflict here and perhaps some degree of synergy.....

BTW, I am not expecting the Maritimes to get the next CFL franchise.......Ottawa first, then Quebec City and only after that the Maritimes......about the year 2018-2020 I would think.

[CFL-EXPANDER]

I'm back to enter the argument of an open air stadium compared to a dome stadium. The reality is any stadium is going to cost 50 to 100 million. open air stadium in the north and yes Canada either east central or west is in the north. We don't draw 80,000 + fans per game or receive 20, 30 million in TV revenue for the CFL. So a stadium covered opens up other usage to cover the cost to have.
A Dome is also a shielder, weather never effects the out come of a game and the fans come because it maybe raining or snowing but u can still sit and enjoy the game. Myself I enjoyed playing inside and later loved the view from the stands.
AS the 13th player raising the roof with noise to throw off the other team is an experience different inside. Any stadium can be dull, in or out. The fans make the stadium.

[CFL-EXPANDER]

:

2012 is the year the CFL starts a team on the East coast.

Start thinking of a name and logo for the contest to be announced


Yes OTTAWA, QUEBEC CITY but they really would like to see a team on the East coast to make the CFL coast to coast. You may see a team earlier then Quebec City or in the same year

[MonctonRad]

The Moncton forum already has a name and a logo for the team........

The Moncton (or Maritime) Express, with the name and logo paying homage to the city's railroading heritage.

[JHikka]

As long as it's not called the Express or Alpines.

As much as I don't want to say it, Moncton would be drawing people from New Brunswick, PEI and Nova Scotia, not just from the Moncton area. Theoretically speaking, Moncton has a larger number of people to draw from than Halifax. I can see a lot of people from here (Saint John) going to games in Moncton that wouldn't necessarily go to Halifax.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Mount Allison doesn't have a football stadium.......they play on a field in the centre of the campus, surrounded by academic buildings and residences. There are a few bleachers and a small grandstand but most people stand or sit on a small hillside when they go to games. It would be very difficult to have attendance levels of more than 2,000 people per game. They don't have the capacity.

Another thing is that Mt. A. is a small undergrad liberal arts university with an enrollment of only about 2,200 so, an average crowd at the games of about 2,000 is pretty good.

Actually, playing at the MFA Rocky Stone Field would have been a step up for the Mounties.......artficial turf, a proper grandstand, proper nightlighting.....

I understand your points, but the fact that Mt. Allison plays on a field with bleachers makes my case even stronger. It would be difficult to fit more than 2,000 people at Mt. Allison football, but it's really a direct reflection of the support it receives from Moncton: zilch! Capacity is the result of demand. If 10,000 people from Moncton wanted to go to Mt. Allison games, you can bet your bottom dollar they'd exist a football stadium at Mt. Allison larger enough to accommodate it.

Mt. Allison attendance is outstanding considering it receives zero support from the people of Moncton, but we're talking about football interest in a city of 130,000 people. Do you think 87,000 people go to Auburn University in Alabama? Notre Dame has enrollment (under 12,000) smaller than Dalhousie yet draws 81,000 people.

That Mt. Allison only has 2,200 students is neither here nor there. It's a small liberal arts school? What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about football and they have a football team. Your decision to attend football depends in some way on the educational pursuits of the players or what sized school they attend?

Do you think you need to be a student at Mt. Allison to have season's tickets? That's just a bizarre way to look at it that has no basis in reality. Making excuses can't hide the fact that Moncton has not shown much interest in supporting its only college football team. The typical view seems to be of indifference to it. "Some tiny school over there that we will ignore", seems to be the prevailing attitude.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Moncton is admittedly a hockey town but there is also a surprisingly strong football tradition here as well. the MFA is 50 years old. All local high schools have both junior and senior varsity teams. I don't have actual numbers but I imagine there are at least 1,500 boys involved in minor football in the Moncton area. High school games are well attended and have a good atmosphere.

Below is a picture incidentally from the front page of the T&T yesterday showing a couple of Harrrison Trimble High School football supporters.



Moncton is a hockey town but football is big too. There is not necessarily a conflict here and perhaps some degree of synergy.....

BTW, I am not expecting the Maritimes to get the next CFL franchise.......Ottawa first, then Quebec City and only after that the Maritimes......about the year 2018-2020 I would think.

This part is more encouraging, but the fact remains that the CFL is going to guage football interest in Moncton based on the support Moncton has given to area football teams. That includes Mt. Allison whether you think so or not.

[MonctonRad]

- I think that proportionately, 2,000 average attendance for a Mt. A. game is very good........I don't think we should be dragging American universities like Auburn and Notre Dame into this debate. Laval however is a good analogy. It is exciting to see that they can have attendance figures of about 17,000 per game but Laval's enrollment is 38,000!!! Proportionately speaking, the attendance at Mt. A, games is twice as good as Laval's. Laval is also situated at the heart of a metropolitan area of over 700,000. Mt. A. is situated at the edge of a metropolitan population of 133,000.

The fact that Mt. A. is a Canadian Ivy League liberal arts university is also quite germaine. The university administration is more proud of the fact that it is the highest ranked undergraduate university in the country and has produced more Rhodes Scholars than any other University in the British Commonwealth or North America than anything else. The athletic programs at Mt. A, have correspondingly suffered somewhat. Academics is the focus of Mt. A., not athletics. Mt. A. is not a jock university like Saint Mary's. The university doesn't even have a men's hockey team for pete's sake!!

The university does not have a sports stadium nor do I ever expect them to build one......the administration is just not interested. If the university were endowed with $10-20M tomorrow, I have no doubt that the money would be used for scholarships or for expanded academic programs rather than sporting facilities.

Given the current playing field at the university and the lack of proper seating, 2,000 average attendance at games is pretty close to capacity and probably can not be improved upon.

Given the obstacles that the football Mounties have to deal with, I think they do quite well and that the level of community support they recieve is fantastic.

[MonctonRad]

Some pics from the SMU-Mt. A. game at Rocky Stone Field on the weekend....












(all images courtesy of AUS Football)

[MonctonRad]

More Metro (Moncton) CFL plans in works
Published Tuesday October 13th, 2009

[B]League officials to hold news conference in Moncton for 2010 football game
By NEIL HODGE
TIMES & TRANSCRIPT STAFF

An all-star lineup is gathering here to announce some details for next year's Canadian Football League regular season game in Moncton.

CFL commissioner Mark Cohon, federal minister Peter MacKay, Premier Shawn Graham and Mayor George LeBlanc will all take part in a news conference this week. The day and location for this event isn't yet known.

The federal and provincial governments are expected to announce their financial commitment for this game. This will be the first major league regular season sporting event ever held in Atlantic Canada.

"The date of the game and the home team will be announced at this week's news conference,'' said Ian Fowler, the City of Moncton's general manager of recreation, parks, tourism and culture.

"There's no question this will make it real in everybody's minds after this announcement is made. This week's news conference will bring to fruition the first stage of the project. It will answer some of the questions people are asking and then further details will be released at a later date.''

The Moncton game will take place next September and it will be nationally televised on TSN. It's expected to be announced this week that an Eastern Division club -- the Toronto Argonauts, Hamilton Tiger-Cats, Winnipeg Blue Bombers or Montreal Alouettes -- will be the home team for this contest.

The game will be played at the Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium on the Université de Moncton campus. The 10,000-seat venue is being built to host the 2010 IAAF Moncton World Junior Track and Field Championships and it will be expanded to 20,000 seats for the CFL game with the addition of temporary bleachers.

"It's going to be a mini Grey Cup weekend,'' said Fowler. "We're going to have lots of events around this game. There will be a commissioner's brunch and the CFL Hall of Fame will be here. There will be lots of opportunities for the community to attend events that are tied in with this game.

"We'll be announcing these types of things further down the road as the game draws closer. It's going to be quite a package. We're looking to really showcase the CFL in Atlantic Canada. We want to make Moncton a football destination the week of this game.''

The CFL has never held a neutral site game in the regular season. It will break new ground by coming to Moncton and this isn't meant to be a one-timer wonder.

Moncton is looking to stage one regular season game per year for the next five years. There's talk of the CFL's desire to expand into a coast-to-coast league so it's anyone's guess whether this could eventually lead to a Moncton-based Atlantic franchise some day.

There are 1.3 million people within a 2.5-hour drive of Moncton, the largest population catchment area of any city in Atlantic Canada. There are 960,000 people within the same distance of Halifax.

There are 250,000 people within one hour of Moncton. Proponents of a CFL franchise here point out the city is the geographic centre of the Maritimes and an ideal location because it has the region's largest population drawing power.

Fowler noted that next year's CFL game in Moncton is expected to have a $4 million economic spinoff on the community.

"We're looking at ticket pricing that will be compatible with regular season games in other markets,'' he said.

"We haven't finalized it yet, but there won't be premium pricing for this game.''

Personal note: We now have a few more details regarding this event......The game will be in September with the home team being one of the Eastern Conference teams. There will be a whole slew of public events on the weekend surrounding the game. It sounds very much like it will be similar to the type of events that surrounded the Memorial Cup or the World Men's Curling Championships, also successfully held in Moncton during the last few years.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There are 1.3 million people within a 2.5-hour drive of Moncton, the largest population catchment area of any city in Atlantic Canada. There are 960,000 people within the same distance of Halifax.

There are 250,000 people within one hour of Moncton. Proponents of a CFL franchise here point out the city is the geographic centre of the Maritimes and an ideal location because it has the region's largest population drawing power.

This is so subjective. Driving times are not a measure of a population base. I don't mean to start this debate with Moncton again, but I can pick any "driving time" I want to make it suit my case. I'll say Halifax has 500,000 within an 45 min drive and Moncton has maybe 150,000 in a 45 min drive. You add an 1 hour, 2 hours, 5 hours eventually you will have the entire Maritimes population. I know I'll here some "reasoning" from MonctonRad that Moncton is more centre, or has more people in an "optimal" driving time. Fact is Halifax is bigger by a lot, and Moncton's propaganda is not gonna convince an owner to throw his money away on small city now or 20 years from now.

I'm sick of the BS from that Moncton "make up my own facts" newspaper.
Don't count on me or any football fans I know from Halifax to drive to Moncton for a Federally funded CFL game.

[MonctonRad]

I am struck by several of the Halifax posters who continually seem to say that Moncton is too small to have a CFL team or that Moncton doesn't deserve a CFL team. I have never said anything of the sort in reverse........of course Halifax could have a CFL team if it wanted to, I just haven't seen much evidence recently to indicate that the civic administration or community leaders of that fair community are interested in the proposal or even cares.

Halifax had an ideal opportunity to advance the cause for a CFL team in the Maritimes with the Commonwealth Games bid but they dropped the ball big time on that one. That was a very bad PR move and I think that when this happened, it gave Moncton an opening to step into the breach......

The CFL is interested in the Maritimes. At present, the only community that is reciprocating that interest is Moncton. This is the main reason that Moncton has been so successful on this file over the last 18 months. If the HRM administration had shown even a modicum of interest, things could be much different.

Personally, I would like to see both Halifax and Moncton with teams. Just think of the instant rivalry. This is unlikely to happen but not entirely beyond the realm of possibility......I'll trot out this table one more time for emphasis.



Personally, I think it is absurd to talk about people routinely driving 3 hours to a football game but it is fair to talk about people driving 60-90 minutes, especially when there are only eight home games in a season. There are nearly 300,000 people within one hour of Moncton and I know that there are roughly 450,000 within 90 minutes of Moncton. This compares favourably to Regina and using a 90 minute cutoff, there is only minimal overlap with Halifax. For this reason, I would argue that both communities could support CFL football.....For this reason, we should all be supportive of CFL in the Maritimes no matter where it ultimately ends up being played.

The main difference between you and me q12 is that I would love to see CFL football in both Moncton and Halifax. You on the other hand would rather take your marbles and go home instead of supporting a New Brunswick based team in the CFL.

[q12]

You keep forgetting your gonna need an owner for that New Brunswick team who is willing to gamble money on a small city.
If u think there is a CFL football market (I repeat market, not population) for 2 CFL teams in the Maritimes you are living in a pipe dream up there. Most sport fans around here would rather watch a rerun NHL game from 20 years ago than a live CFL game on TV.

Moncton (not the people but the media, politicians etc.) turns Haligonians off with their "we think we do and have everything better" propaganda.
Saskatchewan only gets support from Saskatchewan. Halifax is in Nova Scotia, not New Brunswick. Don't expect a lot of support from a city in another province that you have bashed and tried to outdue every chance you've gotten.

Best of luck in la la land.......

[someone123]

That chart usually shows up but it's very misleading, and part of the reason why people complain about Moncton cheerleading.

First of all, the numbers are wrong. They're put together by adding up counties, and the GDP figures are based on the provincial averages, which makes very little sense when GDP per capita is higher in the cities. GDP is also less important than wages.

Next, even if the numbers were correct, the conclusions would still be wrong. The numbers show that Moncton is much smaller. Most of that 1 hour drive population is not in the Moncton CMA, whereas most of the Halifax total is - those are people within the commutershed who regularly go to other parts of the city. The ones not in the CMA are in areas not closely integrated to the rest of the city, and also traditionally poorer, declining areas. NS and NB are both stagnant overall despite growth in Halifax and Moncton.

Moncton possibly has a larger population within 3 hours, but that includes the population of Halifax and so is largely meaningless.

Moncton is doing well as a secondary city in the region but is not a viable or optimal place to locate things like a regional sports team.

[someone123]

Actual CMA populations, 2006, 2007, 2008 (http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo05a-eng.htm):

Halifax (N.S.) 384.8 388.4 394.6
Moncton (N.B.) 129.5 130.6 132.2

They don't have median total family income for Moncton, but here's Halifax and Saint John from 2006 (http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01...107a-eng.htm):

Halifax (N.S.) 67,600
Saint John (N.B.) 59,600

The reality is that there's probably something like 3.5-4x as much money floating around for something like CFL tickets in Halifax, and that the big size gap is not going to change anytime soon.

[MonctonRad]

These arguments and counter-arguments are exhausting but you have to keep in mind that a CFL football game would be much more of an event than say a regular season QMJHL hockey game. There are I believe 34 home games each year in the Q. There are only eight home games per year in the CFL. Because CFL games are infrequent and relatively unique "events" (compared to a Q league game), they would be more likely to draw patrons from further afield. You therefore need to include population statistics beyond the metro areas in you analysis.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, If the shoe were on the other foot and Halifax had a CFL team, I would very likely drive down to Halifax once or twice a year to catch a game. Why is it so difficult to believe that some Haligonians would also drive up to Moncton to watch a game. Is there some sort of invisible and impenetrable psychological barrier at the Tantramar Marshes?

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

These arguments and counter-arguments are exhausting but you have to keep in mind that a CFL football game would be much more of an event than say a regular season QMJHL hockey game. There are I believe 34 home games each year in the Q. There are only eight home games per year in the CFL. Because CFL games are infrequent and relatively unique "events" (compared to a Q league game), they would be more likely to draw patrons from further afield. You therefore need to include population statistics beyond the metro areas in you analysis.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, If the shoe were on the other foot and Halifax had a CFL team, I would very likely drive down to Halifax once or twice a year to catch a game. Why is it so difficult to believe that some Haligonians would also drive up to Moncton to watch a game. Is there some sort of invisible and impenetrable psychological barrier at the Tantramar Marshes?

I don't see a team in Moncton working. You would have almost entirley depend on people coming from other areas ...not a good situation. I do wish Moncton the best of luck but it just doesn't have the popluation base to support it. I'm not even sure Halifax could eithier but would make a whole lot more sense than Moncton. What it really comes down to is who has a stadium and it would probably be Halifax if the Commonwealth Games had gone through..to bad.

I see this game as a building block in gaining support for a team on the east coast but I would be very surprized if a team ended being based there.

Actaully if anyone should get a team it should be Qubec City.