Hamilton Set to Open its First Multi-lane Roundabout

[raisethehammer]

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been behind someone at a 'no turn on red' and actually seen them go anyhow in the past 15 years.
That statement isn't true at all, and even if it was, that's no reason to not make a simple, logical change to our street system.
People speed everyday. Should we get rid of speed limits??

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been behind someone at a 'no turn on red' and actually seen them go anyhow in the past 15 years.
That statement isn't true at all, and even if it was, that's no reason to not make a simple, logical change to our street system.
People speed everyday. Should we get rid of speed limits??

It is not a logical change. Yes we should get rid of most speed limits.

I can count on two hands how many times it's happened and I haven't even lived here a year. Motorists have a complete disregard for the HTA here.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been behind someone at a 'no turn on red' and actually seen them go anyhow in the past 15 years.
That statement isn't true at all, and even if it was, that's no reason to not make a simple, logical change to our street system.
People speed everyday. Should we get rid of speed limits??

The dead end part of St. Joseph's Drive. I live there and believe me, there's a festival of illegal red light red turns.

[raisethehammer]

and your point is??

[Hammer Town]

Ok I need to fix up some peoples Ignorance on round abouts. First off the Traffic circles and the Kenilworth Access and Queenstone Rd are just that Traffic Circles Roundabouts are designed differantly and area actually a safer means for everyone to travel though an intersection.

I was going to try and type out this big elaborate message however Im instead going to post a few links regarding roundabouts and some pretty impressive stats.

http://www.roundabouts.ca/orc_introduction.htm
http://www.roundabouts.ca/orc_safety.htm
http://www.roundabouts.ca/orc_highspeedroads.htm

Anyway do some research before you decide you don't like something. Also get over the fact that cars are there. Seriously. People are lazy and don't want to walk oh well.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by Hammer Town

Ok I need to fix up some peoples Ignorance on round abouts. First off the Traffic circles and the Kenilworth Access and Queenstone Rd are just that Traffic Circles Roundabouts are designed differantly and area actually a safer means for everyone to travel though an intersection.

I was going to try and type out this big elaborate message however Im instead going to post a few links regarding roundabouts and some pretty impressive stats.

http://www.roundabouts.ca/orc_introduction.htm
http://www.roundabouts.ca/orc_safety.htm
http://www.roundabouts.ca/orc_highspeedroads.htm

Anyway do some research before you decide you don't like something. Also get over the fact that cars are there. Seriously. People are lazy and don't want to walk oh well.

Not all people are lazy. I DO want to walk and I want to have a controlled intersection to walk across not some speeding circle of cars. In case you hadn't noticed, cars are bigger than me and can do more damage than I can do to them.
Please get over the fact that drivers think they are the only people on the planet who matter and that everyone who walks/cycles should be relegated to running for their lives so that the almighty car doesn't have to stop once in a while.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by Hammer Town

Ok I need to fix up some peoples Ignorance on round abouts. First off the Traffic circles and the Kenilworth Access and Queenstone Rd are just that Traffic Circles Roundabouts are designed differantly and area actually a safer means for everyone to travel though an intersection.

I was going to try and type out this big elaborate message however Im instead going to post a few links regarding roundabouts and some pretty impressive stats.

http://www.roundabouts.ca/orc_introduction.htm
http://www.roundabouts.ca/orc_safety.htm
http://www.roundabouts.ca/orc_highspeedroads.htm

Anyway do some research before you decide you don't like something. Also get over the fact that cars are there. Seriously. People are lazy and don't want to walk oh well.

I did notice that all the references to safety were in regards to vehicle collisons, with no mention of pedestrian safety. Usually, information that isn't beneficial is ignored. So by that measure it means they really aren't a safer means for everyone (i.e. pedestrians), just car travel.

Now I think circles have their place, but I don't think they are the be all to end all.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

and your point is??

Are you serious? You just said how great it would be if every right turn on red would be illegal and when 2 people say "well uh nobody actually follows that law now" you have nothing to say?

[Hammer Town]

Regardless of what intersections are best most pedestrian Auto Mobile collisions are at intersections.

*Most pedestrian fatalities (80 percent) and the majority of injuries (57 percent) occurred while the vehicle was travelling straight ahead. Intersections were the most common location.

(*taken from http://www.safety-council.org/info/t...destrians.html)

As for roundabouts. the rounds about entrance has a island between each direction of travel aloowing for people crossing to look one way cross to the island then look the other way and cross the other half. Im not sayifn roundabouts are great but I think they are a better option then lights everywhere even if its just base of the accident redutions. Also the fact that it slow down traffic. Nobody running red lights. left traffic congestion which is better for the environment. I know walking if good too however'we can't walk everywhere.

[adam]

You are abusing the whole environment issue to support the creation of the roundabout.

Removing a stop light and constructing a roundabout will not lower pollution in the environment in any significant way. Lowering the # of vehicles on the road by reducing # of trips and working closer to home is the best way to reduce vehicle pollution.

[Hammer Town]

Originally Posted by adam

You are abusing the whole environment issue to support the creation of the roundabout.

Removing a stop light and constructing a roundabout will not lower pollution in the environment in any significant way. Lowering the # of vehicles on the road by reducing # of trips and working closer to home is the best way to reduce vehicle pollution.

I agree more people should walk or take public transportation however in the dreamworld that half the members on this board live in thats not going to happen any time in the very near future even if it does the Roundabout is still safer for the vechicles that will still be on the road. To be honest I am kinda suprised that so many people are against these roundabouts.

You better get used to it. A lot of area in the US require a roundabout the be build unless the traffic light can be proved to be safer. NY state has this in effect.

[Hammer Town]

Oh one more think as much as i am trying to make a case for Roundabouts. Most have probably come to assume that I own a car. I don't infact i don't evenhave a full g lincense yet. I usally and the warmer months walk 45 minute to and from work just about everyday. Unless its raining or something, Even then I do it sometimes. I just dont have an appreciation for ignorance thats why I am trying to make a point.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

and your point is??

Just correcting you on your belief that illegal red turns are a very
rare event.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by Millstone

Are you serious? You just said how great it would be if every right turn on red would be illegal and when 2 people say "well uh nobody actually follows that law now" you have nothing to say?

no, my point was already stated - just because people break the law doesn't mean we just throw our hands up and say "oh well, nobody is following the law".
We enforce it.
Cameras seem to work just fine at getting red light runners.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

no, my point was already stated - just because people break the law doesn't mean we just throw our hands up and say "oh well, nobody is following the law".
We enforce it.
Cameras seem to work just fine at getting red light runners.

But there aren't cameras installed at most of these no-right-turn-on-red intersections. You would have to put cameras at every single intersection in Ontario, who's gonna pay for that?

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by Hammer Town

Regardless of what intersections are best most pedestrian Auto Mobile collisions are at intersections.

*Most pedestrian fatalities (80 percent) and the majority of injuries (57 percent) occurred while the vehicle was travelling straight ahead. Intersections were the most common location.

(*taken from http://www.safety-council.org/info/t...destrians.html)

As for roundabouts. the rounds about entrance has a island between each direction of travel aloowing for people crossing to look one way cross to the island then look the other way and cross the other half. Im not sayifn roundabouts are great but I think they are a better option then lights everywhere even if its just base of the accident redutions. Also the fact that it slow down traffic. Nobody running red lights. left traffic congestion which is better for the environment. I know walking if good too however'we can't walk everywhere.

Great stat, but I'm also aware the 79.4% of all statistics are made up. And a stat is only valuable when you can compare it against an alternative. Since we don't have circles for comparison sake the stat doesn't hold much value.

Again, I'm not saying circles are bad. I think they have a place for certain settings. What I'm saying is they aren't a blanket solution. Just as I think Scramble Intersections also have a benefit at certain (not all) intersections (though not the way Toronto does it).

[adam]

Originally Posted by Hammer Town

I agree more people should walk or take public transportation however in the dreamworld that half the members on this board live in thats not going to happen any time in the very near future even if it does the Roundabout is still safer for the vechicles that will still be on the road. To be honest I am kinda suprised that so many people are against these roundabouts.

You better get used to it. A lot of area in the US require a roundabout the be build unless the traffic light can be proved to be safer. NY state has this in effect.

Why should I get used to something that will be obsolete within the next 10 years? Do you really think you'll be driving a gasoline-fueled car in the year 2020? If so then I'm going to accuse you of living in a dream world.

Many European cities already have electric vehicles with a top speed of 30-60km/h. They are very popular and that's the way things are going. Oil production has been steadily decreasing for a few years now with no turn-around possible due to exhausted oil fields. They aren't finding any new oil fields AT ALL (there are none left). The only reason gas prices have fallen lately is because demand has fallen.

Who's going to ride the roundabouts when nobody can fuel their car? I guess the skateboard kids will enjoy them.

The only reason why you don't see electric cars on our roads is because the McGuinty government has made them illegal. The electric cars are designed in Toronto but can't be driven on Ontario roads! They are legal in BC and Quebec, however.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by adam

The only reason why you don't see electric cars on our roads is because the McGuinty government has made them illegal. The electric cars are designed in Toronto but can't be driven on Ontario roads! They are legal in BC and Quebec, however.

Yet, they allow electric bikes on roads like bicycles (i.e. no licensing required)

BTW, I think your view that cars as we know them will be gone in 2020 is unrealistic. And I believe the only reason oil prices rose was through market manipulation, not supply and demand.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

Yet, they allow electric bikes on roads like bicycles (i.e. no licensing required)

BTW, I think your view that cars as we know them will be gone in 2020 is unrealistic. And I believe the only reason oil prices rose was through market manipulation, not supply and demand.

I agree with you re: 2020, but oil rose due to very tight supply and growing demand. Demand is dropping like a stone right now.

[adam]

Its a well accepted fact that overall supply of oil will decrease every year for the remainder of our lifetimes and well beyond. If we get out of this economic slump, gass prices will have to shoot up unbelievably, then what?