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  #1101  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2010, 11:42 PM
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I think then the approach would have to be one of local use. Halifax does have a strong minor soccer curcit, as well as good grass roots rugby and football clubs.

We have got to approach the local possible tenants to either buy in on public support, or write thier MPs, MLAs, and councilors to help get the ball rolling. If we want a stadium we have to come up with more than just the CFL.

Just my thoughts on he points made by others. On a tighter focus of thought, the more I stare at west-end mall, my eyes keep drawing up to the community centre, and then The Village at Bayers rd.
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  #1102  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2010, 11:48 PM
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Just my thoughts on he points made by others. On a tighter focus of thought, the more I stare at west-end mall, my eyes keep drawing up to the community centre, and then The Village at Bayers rd.
The West End Mall is surrounded by acres of parking. This would be a great location for a stadium. Where is the community centre and The Village?
     
     
  #1103  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 3:17 AM
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Not sure what community centre he's referring to, but The Village at Bayers Road is the new name of the redone (now exterior) Bayers Road shopping mall.
     
     
  #1104  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 4:56 AM
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Sorry, former community centre, now the Halifax Alta Gymnastics Club, and
West Point Racquet & Fitness Centre‎. On the opposing side of the rail cut to Bayers Rd shopping mall.
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  #1105  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 5:15 AM
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The West End Mall is surrounded by acres of parking. This would be a great location for a stadium. Where is the community centre and The Village?
HRM's planning office and the DMV got kicked out of West End Mall because it's going to undergo redevelopment (of some sort). So I don't know if this would be a viable location for a stadium.

We had talked about CFB Windsor (what's left of it) - what about (and this is really out there) combining that site; the forum site and then the post office distribution station? Perhaps even the NS goverment building and the adjacent strip mall?

You could then make the stadium part of a massive parcel re-work for the forum and a stadium? On big multi-use site in the centre of the peninsula? The only problem would be Young Street - but since I"m thinking pie in the sky here anyway - you could always dig up the road and drop it under the whole thing?
     
     
  #1106  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 8:45 AM
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You could then make the stadium part of a massive parcel re-work for the forum and a stadium? On big multi-use site in the centre of the peninsula? The only problem would be Young Street - but since I"m thinking pie in the sky here anyway - you could always dig up the road and drop it under the whole thing?
I assume that this is sarcasm?

This shouldn't be a "pie in the sky" discussion. The cities of Halifax, Dartmouth and province of Nova Scotia should have come up with a site and stadium 27 years ago when they had a serious proposal for a CFL team. It would have shown many people that the 2 levels of government down there were serious about being proactive and doing something worthwhile for the citizens. Instead the province pours money into metal castings plants that have no hope of succeeding. How many billions were wasted on the Sydney Steel Plant? (this is a good example from my youth). If they are planning to waste money anyway, why not do something that people will get some enjoyment from?

The HRM municipality has no intention of demolishing two ice pads (the Halifax Forum) especially when they just built a 4-pad in Bedford because of community requirements. And of course they have no intention of digging up Young Street. Why shouldn't people in Nova Scotia expect something that almost every other city in Canada built when they were far smaller in population than Halifax (i.e Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, and Hamilton all built 20 - 30,000 seat stadiums when they were smaller cities than the HRM). Moncton now has a 20,000 seat stadium.

You stated that you just went to Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton to see a concert, so why is a stadium in Halifax a joke for you, halifaxboyns? You are starting to sound like Halifax area politicians who pretend to support a stadium but do nothing to achieve it.

If the DND site you mentioned were a possibility, there are already 10 - 20 acres depending on how much could be obtained (without demolishing the Halifax Forum and digging up Young Street). If a small portion of the Superstore could be purchased then there would be more than sufficient width. Stadiums don't really require on-site parking for thousands of cars. This is only a requirement if they have CFL or NFL owners as tenants who don't care about what is good for the cities that they live in. Then these owners will require a site that is in the middle of nowhere so that they can get parking revenue from a usually empty acres-large parking lot. However, that isn't the case for many sports teams. It isn't the case for the Rogers Centre or BMO Field in Toronto.

Here is how the Rogers Centre would fit on the DND site. The Rogers Centre is wider than a Halifax stadium would need to be since it wouldn't have 50,000 seats and a built in hotel. A stadium like McMahon Stadium of Calgary fits much better.



This is the way that Calgary's McMahon Stadium would fit. A Stadium could be built with seats in the endzone so that it wouldn't require this much width.


This is how a 25,000 seat stadium, Percival Molson Stadium (Montreal) would fit (there would be lots of room)

Last edited by fenwick16; Sep 3, 2010 at 1:16 PM.
     
     
  #1107  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 10:16 AM
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This is how my conceptual 3D stadium model (drawn in Sketchup) would fit.


I have redrawn the roof trusses based on internet images of the Swansea Liberty Stadium (previously I had copied ones from "Sam Johnson"'s model - probably not appropriate without permission - so I remedied it).
     
     
  #1108  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 4:17 PM
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I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, well the part of the road underneith the forum site is a bit of a stretch - but you Fenwick suggested the CFB windsor site - so my thought was combine them into a multi-use site.

That way; if the stadium your suggesting fit onto the CFB windsor site (or perhaps straddled Young Street and you could put the road under the stadium) - you'd have the existing parking lots for the forum to provide parking for the stadium (you wouldn't need to give up space at Windsor for parking).

What may have confused me slightly was the scale of the stadium - thinking what it could be at the end (because it would be pointless to devote land to a stadium that's expandable and then build it so tight on the parcel it couldn't expand). I'm just thinking that if CFB Windsor was a small parcel (it seems to me when it was suggested some felt it might be 'tight'); then if you partnered it with the forum site you could fit the stadium and have parking to boot. If the stadium fit completely on the CFB windsor site; then perhaps all that would be needed to tie the parking lots togther is a ped bridge over Young Street to the stadium.

I guess I wasn't clear about what I was trying to convey - I wasn't suggesting tearing the forum down for the sake of this stadium. But if you could somehow partner the two together - then you have existing parking facilities on the forum site already that could be used when the stadium was in operation. Without going back in the thread; I think we had come to an agreement this site would be good from the transportation connection perspective as well (along some major routes).

As to my comment on Young Street - what I was trying to convey was that if the Windsor site wasn't quite enough - then perhaps there is a way to build the stadium so that it is on both the CFB windsor site and part of the forum site (into the parking lot at the corner; not taking the forum down) and then put the road underneith. I was trying to convey that a road shouldn't be looked at as an obsticle if that was the only way to solve a space problem.

I'm all for a stadium; just trying to forsee some problems and come up with solutions.
     
     
  #1109  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 5:40 PM
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Thanks for the clarification halifaxboyns. I get annoyed because I and others consider that location to be one of the most ideal sites. There is an abundance of parking surrounding the site and good transit connections. In the case of the Rogers Centre in Toronto, people just park in private and municipal lots in the vicinity of the stadium and then cross streets at the cross walk. The Rogers Centre is right in the middle of the downtown area next to the CN Tower (it is actually shown in the picture that I pasted above).

A stadium could be designed to fit that width of the DND lot and vacant lot as it is. The SuperStore has a small building attached on the side - if that could be obtained also then that would be a bonus (there also appears to be an electric transmission tower in the area). Buildings like the Rogers Centre and Air Canada Centre in Toronto, and Percival Molson Stadium in Montreal were designed to fit the available space. The same can be done in Halifax.
     
     
  #1110  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Thanks for the clarification halifaxboyns. I get annoyed because I and others consider that location to be one of the most ideal sites. There is an abundance of parking surrounding the site and good transit connections. In the case of the Rogers Centre in Toronto, people just park in private and municipal lots in the vicinity of the stadium and then cross streets at the cross walk. The Rogers Centre is right in the middle of the downtown area next to the CN Tower (it is actually shown in the picture that I pasted above).

A stadium could be designed to fit that width of the DND lot and vacant lot as it is. The SuperStore has a small building attached on the side - if that could be obtained also then that would be a bonus (there also appears to be an electric transmission tower in the area). Buildings like the Rogers Centre and Air Canada Centre in Toronto, and Percival Molson Stadium in Montreal were designed to fit the available space. The same can be done in Halifax.

The attached building you are refering too is an NSLC store if I'm not mistaken. Considering there are two strip malls in walking distance it might be possible to expropriate that portion of the building; but I would think you'd have to take that whole chunk of the lot? I'm not sure...

My feeling would be provide the lowest amount of parking as possible and then do what they are doing with the Airshow - have Metro Transit team up with the operators of the site to provide additional transportation options and frequency for the stadium. I'd also encourage that there be a bus pick up/drop off area off the street in the design, so that buses have their own location and are not having to clog up Young or Windsor to stop and pick up people. As we have all experienced; people aren't exactly the quickest when they are leaving a game and so any efforts to keep the roads moving would be helpful.

But from a costing perspective; I figured it might reduce the cost (although probably not that much) to just co-share existing parking with the forum. That way; it's already there and potentially you wouldn't really need too much more (if you really encourage people to use transit).
     
     
  #1111  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 8:17 PM
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But from a costing perspective; I figured it might reduce the cost (although probably not that much) to just co-share existing parking with the forum. That way; it's already there and potentially you wouldn't really need too much more (if you really encourage people to use transit).
This is what I would like to see. How many parking spots does the Halifax Forum have? There are also office buildings close-by that would have empty parking lots during the evening and weekends when events are being held. There are also hotels in the downtown core that could have shuttles to events. Then there are strip malls and the Superstore that could allocate some spots for events.

This is the most environmental friendly solution. I am not an environmentalist but I don't believe in having thousands of parking spots surrounding a stadium in the suburbs.
     
     
  #1112  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 9:40 PM
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This is what I would like to see. How many parking spots does the Halifax Forum have? There are also office buildings close-by that would have empty parking lots during the evening and weekends when events are being held. There are also hotels in the downtown core that could have shuttles to events. Then there are strip malls and the Superstore that could allocate some spots for events.

This is the most environmental friendly solution. I am not an environmentalist but I don't believe in having thousands of parking spots surrounding a stadium in the suburbs.
It may be the most environmentally favourable solution but knowing land use bylaw's and DA's like I do; I suspect there will need to be parking on the same site. I'm not sure if the act would allow them to tie parking to other sites in the event of a DA or Development Permit - since typically in the Peninsula Bylaw the parking needs to be provided on site (unless specifically exempted). This is why I was suggesting trying to tie the two sites together; because then one could argue that they were one site with one use (some sort of civic related use).

If my assumption is correct and their hands might be tied a bylaw amendment could probably be done to overcome this; but I don't think they'd go for grabbing parking off othersites not owned by HRM in the DP or DA. That being said; it wouldn't stop those sites from leasing out space when an event was on because that happens all the time during stampede for sites near Stampede park and with limited enforcement resources; unless a complaint is launched - we don't usually go after them (that I know of).
     
     
  #1113  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2010, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
It may be the most environmentally favourable solution but knowing land use bylaw's and DA's like I do; I suspect there will need to be parking on the same site. I'm not sure if the act would allow them to tie parking to other sites in the event of a DA or Development Permit - since typically in the Peninsula Bylaw the parking needs to be provided on site (unless specifically exempted). This is why I was suggesting trying to tie the two sites together; because then one could argue that they were one site with one use (some sort of civic related use).

If my assumption is correct and their hands might be tied a bylaw amendment could probably be done to overcome this; but I don't think they'd go for grabbing parking off othersites not owned by HRM in the DP or DA. That being said; it wouldn't stop those sites from leasing out space when an event was on because that happens all the time during stampede for sites near Stampede park and with limited enforcement resources; unless a complaint is launched - we don't usually go after them (that I know of).
In the case of the Halifax Metro Centre, there isn't any on-site parking. However, I think some on-site parking would be required. I just don't think that it should be in the thousands of parking spots but instead more like 500-1,000 spots. On top of this there would be all the surrounding spots.
     
     
  #1114  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2010, 12:50 AM
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The attached building you are refering too is an NSLC store if I'm not mistaken. Considering there are two strip malls in walking distance it might be possible to expropriate that portion of the building; but I would think you'd have to take that whole chunk of the lot? I'm not sure...

My feeling would be provide the lowest amount of parking as possible and then do what they are doing with the Airshow - have Metro Transit team up with the operators of the site to provide additional transportation options and frequency for the stadium. I'd also encourage that there be a bus pick up/drop off area off the street in the design, so that buses have their own location and are not having to clog up Young or Windsor to stop and pick up people. As we have all experienced; people aren't exactly the quickest when they are leaving a game and so any efforts to keep the roads moving would be helpful.

But from a costing perspective; I figured it might reduce the cost (although probably not that much) to just co-share existing parking with the forum. That way; it's already there and potentially you wouldn't really need too much more (if you really encourage people to use transit).
Build a multilevel parking garage on the Forum parking site. During the week commuters would use the garage as a transit hub. Shuttle busses would go to downtown nonstop. (Stadium-downtown link)
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  #1115  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2010, 1:26 PM
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I get annoyed because I and others consider that location to be one of the most ideal sites.
I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again. Has DND expressed any interest in the notion of giving up their land? Because if they haven't, then it doesn't matter how ideal we think the site may be, it's probably not going to happen.
     
     
  #1116  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2010, 1:58 PM
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I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again. Has DND expressed any interest in the notion of giving up their land? Because if they haven't, then it doesn't matter how ideal we think the site may be, it's probably not going to happen.
As with any possible site, the only way to get such answers is for the municipality to be involved (having the province involved would be even better). They are in a position to contact the responsible people. Even stating that a stadium could be put at the Shannon Park site is purely speculation. In the case of the DND Willow Park lands, I would think that Peter MacKay would be the one to speak to and he is a Nova Scotian.

I am just stating that the DND site would be large enough and in a good location (in my opinion). I am not in a position to do any more. I and others have contacted the Mayor and Councillors but as of yet there has been no one in power who has been willing to push the idea of a stadium through. There is no harm in any of us stating what we would consider to be a good location, just as you have stated that Shannon Park would be a good location.

If you look at the current Hamilton Pan-Am proposal, they have looked a various sites. One that they are currently considering is owned by McMaster University and has been set aside as a research park. This didn't stop it from being considered as a possible site.

Since we all have some knowledge of the Halifax area, there is no harm in considering various sites and pointing out the positives and negatives. Who knows, maybe someone in a position to get the ball rolling will consider these sites. For now the best we can do is keep contacting people in power in order to try to get them involved.
     
     
  #1117  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2010, 3:18 PM
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Build a multilevel parking garage on the Forum parking site. During the week commuters would use the garage as a transit hub. Shuttle busses would go to downtown nonstop. (Stadium-downtown link)
Excellent idea... I've always thought the Forum parking area would do well as a parking structure up to 4 floors with groundfloor retail.

With your idea, it could be dual use... commuters and sportsfans.

If the stadium was put in at Willow park... the walk down the east sidewalk of Windsor (wider sidewalk that the usual btw) could be our equivalent of the "Green Mile" in Regina.

I don't see DND having an issue with giving up the land if HRM negotiates a land swap. The structures are aren't modern and IMO are about the level of what was at King's Wharf.

Maybe we could get some federal funding and put the new DND facility in Burnside and therefore have interdepartmental closeness between DND, RCMP, CCG, and DFO.
     
     
  #1118  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2010, 3:27 PM
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I have heard this DND site referred to as a brownfield site and essentially a military scrap yard. It might not be too difficult to get DND to swap land. In my opinion, a stadium would be a step up for this location and it is surrounded primarily by industrial land so there wouldn't be the public opposition present in some locations.

If a multilevel parking lot could be justified based on the revenue generated then the Halifax Forum might be a good site for such a structure. Maybe it could even be a park and ride site with regular shuttle buses running to the downtown core.
     
     
  #1119  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2010, 10:54 PM
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I have heard this DND site referred to as a brownfield site and essentially a military scrap yard. It might not be too difficult to get DND to swap land. In my opinion, a stadium would be a step up for this location and it is surrounded primarily by industrial land so there wouldn't be the public opposition present in some locations.

If a multilevel parking lot could be justified based on the revenue generated then the Halifax Forum might be a good site for such a structure. Maybe it could even be a park and ride site with regular shuttle buses running to the downtown core.
The forum site is ideal for a park & ride (stadium-downtown). Windsor, Robie & Bayers Rd. can handle a lot of traffic. Perhaps DND has no interest in giving up prime real estate but the fact that they have a useless unsightly property in the middle of the city may just have to be brought to their attention. Who knows, maybe they could help with a stadium by providing the land. In return, the military could use the site for training etc.
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  #1120  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2010, 1:05 AM
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I still like the idea of a Memorial Stadium for the Halifax Explosion if the DND willow Park site is ever used for a stadium because of its proximity to the explosion site and because the 100th year anniversary is coming up (2017). The Navy also just celebrated its 100th year.

It has been estimated that the Parliment buildings in Ottawa will cost 5 billion dollars to renovate (yes that is billion, not million). Can't Ottawa spare a few million dollars on a Halifax area stadium?
     
     
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