Place d'Orleans: potential redevelopment?

[DEWLine]

Noticing that the RCMP pulled their offices out of the second floor. Wondering what happened to cause that, although I have some half-baked theories on the subject. Better to have clear fact, though.

[Dundas]

Now im curious what your half baked theory is.

[TheGoods]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

Noticing that the RCMP pulled their offices out of the second floor. Wondering what happened to cause that, although I have some half-baked theories on the subject. Better to have clear fact, though.

The RCMP have been consolidating their buildings /real-estate to the former JDS campus on Leikin Dr. The campus can hold another 500 employees and I'm guessing, as leases expire, they are not renewing and moving these employees to their new headquarters.

[ElieB]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

Having grown up in the east end, I would say I doubt it. Perhaps some changes but nothing near a full redevelopment unless something major happened liked loss of anchor tenants they couldn't replace.

Why do I think so.

1) Orleans has never been about upscale stores, so lack them is not the issue. That mall never survived on that. The mall is fairly well rented. There are some free space, but overall is pretty well leased.

2) Although some malls have closed in the US, I think most major ones in Canada are doing at least okay. Canada has a stronger argument for indoor malls than the US due to climate.

3) There has been very little interest in office developments in Orleans. There was one proposed years ago across the highway (near the park and ride) and lets just say we are still waiting. Brigil proposed something closer to trim, and as far as I know there is much in the way of tenant prospects. The federal government has shown no interest in going east of Blair.

4) In terms of densification, areas like Orleans has not shown much interest in things like high rise condos. It's just not why people do to the 'burbs. They go because they want houses (at a semi-reasonable price) or they want new houses. In terms of density the best I have seen sell wall are 4 story walk-up condos by Brigil.

5) The place is also still fairly new and overall in fairly good condition.

While I think you're basically right on all points here, there's still the fact that Place and large swaths of St.Joseph blvd represent a lot of untapped potential. Basically every mall in the east end is a transit hub but not a single one has anything planned to take advantage of the new LRT.

The city likes to talk about intensifying and transit-oriented development but those policies don't change anything unless those who own that land actually do something with it. As they are, they're just struggling commercial outlets in a sea of parking which takes up most of the 800m intensification radius. It's on them to capitalize.

St.Joseph is a ruin. I'm shocked more businesses aren't failing there. It IS underdeveloped by today's standards and has great potential for mid-rise and mixed-use. Place D'Orleans is also a complete waste of transit-oriented development. It's the largest transit hub in the east end but there's basically no one living within 500m of it. There's a small cluster of midrise to the east of it but centrum plaza is also a commercial deadzone, ripe for redevelopment. Unfortunately those buildings are having their foundations repaired despite having far too many vacancies, so it seems that building isn't going anywhere either.

Blair is redeveloping brand new big stores and strips malls, no added residential in site.

St. Laurent has been struggling to renovate and expand but so far as I know there are no plans to develop any residential there either. Which is incredibly short-sighted, given the intensification pressure that will only worsen in the more vulnerable areas of Overbrook.

[eternallyme]

Honestly, I think that assuming the federal government goes on a hiring spree, they should move some departments to Orleans, since many who work in the federal government live there. Building new offices on the site would help a lot there.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Honestly, I think that assuming the federal government goes on a hiring spree,

Good Lord... there is absolutely no reason for that to happen.

What department could possibly need expansion???

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

Noticing that the RCMP pulled their offices out of the second floor. Wondering what happened to cause that, although I have some half-baked theories on the subject. Better to have clear fact, though.

I have a friend that recently moved from this office to the old JDS.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Good Lord... there is absolutely no reason for that to happen.

What department could possibly need expansion???

The long term hiring freeze brought about by the outgoing government means many departments are badly understaffed. Unlike in the 1990s when things were privatized, there was no corresponding reduction in the amount of work to be done. The Harper administration seemed to think departments could magically do more work with fewer people as though time can be pulled out of someone's ass.

The CRA is among the worst off from these problems; they lost staff in the past ten years even as the bonanza of boutique tax credits added to the complexity of work required to process returns.

[1overcosc]

The incoming MP for Orleans, who is a likely candidate for cabinet, has made it clear he wants more federal employment there. We may see that big proposal for office high rises in the lot across the 174 from Place D'Orleans finally get moving if this materializes.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The long term hiring freeze brought about by the outgoing government means many departments are badly understaffed. Unlike in the 1990s when things were privatized, there was no corresponding reduction in the amount of work to be done. The Harper administration seemed to think departments could magically do more work with fewer people as though time can be pulled out of someone's ass.

The CRA is among the worst off from these problems; they lost staff in the past ten years even as the bonanza of boutique tax credits added to the complexity of work required to process returns.

The fact that there was a "hiring freeze" and "cuts were made" is hardly a prescription for "increased hiring" now.

I've spent enough time inside the federal government to understand that the work that needs to be accomplished could be done FAR more efficiently that it currently is.

CRA is the last place that needs "more hiring". Lets work on simplifying the tax code before running off and adding more bodies to that department.

And yes... I know there are MANY, MANY hard working, dedicated folks in the government... but I believe that management and oversight needs a SERIOUS, SERIOUS overhaul. Start by hiring employees that can do their assigned job, rather than hire consultants to cover for them.

[ElieB]

Side-stepping the political bickering of departmental hiring for a moment.

There's no denying that Orleans lacks good employment. It's been that way a long time. The vast majority of jobs there are retail and services with a small industrial base near canotek. Nothing compared to the office parks and professional jobs in the west end or huge industrial base in the south, south-west. Our representatives for Orleans have failed in that respect. Where ever the jobs may come FROM there's no point arguing against bringing more of it to Orleans.

[Arcologist]

Let's just raze Orleans...

Kidding aside, I drove down St-Joseph this past weekend for the first time in a long time, and boy could it use an uplift. But as has been mentioned above, I can't see any developer building new residential (such as low- or mid-rise redevelopment) without a greater job market.

The City should strongly consider adding incentives for east end development similar to what it did to spur growth in the downtown core. Lower permit fees might help? Lower taxes for mid- to high-rise development around future LRT -- both commercial and residential?

[osirisboy]

I lived there from 1985-2005 and St Joseph always looked like a dump. Nothing ever changed

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

The fact that there was a "hiring freeze" and "cuts were made" is hardly a prescription for "increased hiring" now.

I've spent enough time inside the federal government to understand that the work that needs to be accomplished could be done FAR more efficiently that it currently is.

CRA is the last place that needs "more hiring". Lets work on simplifying the tax code before running off and adding more bodies to that department.

Yes but for that to work the government actually has to simplify the tax code. Harper showed no interest in that despite his supposed dedication to fiscal conservativism... in fact, under his watch the complexity of the income tax system reached an all-time high. Trudeau has shown no interest in this either. It's too politically expedient to give out boutique tax credits. Voters prefer the sound of another new tax credit to reward the newest great thing to a reduction in rates.

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Start by hiring employees that can do their assigned job, rather than hire consultants to cover for them.

... which means more government employees. (Agree with you btw. A lot of the work given to consultants or outsourced to firms would be much more efficiently done in-house, from personal observation by working in government).

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The incoming MP for Orleans, who is a likely candidate for cabinet, has made it clear he wants more federal employment there. We may see that big proposal for office high rises in the lot across the 174 from Place D'Orleans finally get moving if this materializes.

Which other liberal MP are they going to take jobs from?

[MaxHeadroom]

Every municipal, provincial, and federal candidate says they want more jobs in Orleans. But it's just a bunch of hot air. It never happens.

Is it because Kanata and Nepean were the former municipalities that made the effort to attract businesses via tax incentives, and provide appropriate zoning which persists in today's Ottawa Official Plan, leaving what is now Orleans eternally envious?

Is it because the South Orleans Industrial Park, which has largely sat unused for it's intended purpose, was only served by a two lane rural road until ~2005? Innes has certainly been upgraded since, but even now the undeveloped lands have no roads or services leading to them.

Is it because the parcels of land in the supposed South Orleans Industrial Park are owned by a wide variety of interests, and some of the parcels are sizes not conducive to substantial development? Refer to page 55: http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...20document.pdf

[1overcosc]

I'd say the main factor is the tendency of high-tech (the largest private sector employer in this city) to be attracted to itself--firms like to open near other firms, meaning once one part of the city gets a foothold, no one else does.

Historically restrictive zoning and poor transportation links, along with the relatively poor economic development skills of the former Gloucester and Cumberland municipalities (both seemed to think of themselves as ruralish even as they became surburban) hampered Orleans in the beginning, and it's never been able to catch up even though those factors are gone.

LRT may form a tipping point but we have to see.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Which other liberal MP are they going to take jobs from?

Possibly concentrating new employment growth in Orleans while maintaining numbers elsewhere.

The fact that the Liberals swept urban Ottawa is a good thing for our city in the sense that we hopefully won't see a federal government granting undue favours to certain parts of the city over others. If Karen McCrimmon is given cabinet a post too (not an unlikely scenario given her background and the gender parity promise) both ends of the city will be represented at the cabinet table as well.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MaxHeadroom

Every municipal, provincial, and federal candidate says they want more jobs in Orleans. But it's just a bunch of hot air. It never happens.

Is it because Kanata and Nepean were the former municipalities that made the effort to attract businesses via tax incentives, and provide appropriate zoning which persists in today's Ottawa Official Plan, leaving what is now Orleans eternally envious?

Is it because the South Orleans Industrial Park, which has largely sat unused for it's intended purpose, was only served by a two lane rural road until ~2005? Innes has certainly been upgraded since, but even now the undeveloped lands have no roads or services leading to them.

Is it because the parcels of land in the supposed South Orleans Industrial Park are owned by a wide variety of interests, and some of the parcels are sizes not conducive to substantial development? Refer to page 55: http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...20document.pdf

It's very telling how your standard run of the mill retail seemingly continues to eat into the designated industrial use land area there, bringing with it the kinds of lower paying, precarious or part-time jobs that retail growth traditionally brings...

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Possibly concentrating new employment growth in Orleans while maintaining numbers elsewhere.

The fact that the Liberals swept urban Ottawa is a good thing for our city in the sense that we hopefully won't see a federal government granting undue favours to certain parts of the city over others. If Karen McCrimmon is given cabinet a post too (not an unlikely scenario given her background and the gender parity promise) both ends of the city will be represented at the cabinet table as well.

I don't think they can just tell departments their new hires will have to work in Orleans. They would have to move whole units (and probably to fill several office buildings whole departments) to Orleans from somewhere else in the NCR, and I can't imagine MPs on either side of the river going along with that. It was one thing for the Tories to move offices from Liberal/NDP ridings to conservative ridings, but to plunder Liberal ridings seems like a tougher task. Maybe NRCan, they need new buildings anyway and Ottawa Centre might be happy with some kind of mixed use development instead.