HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2020, 11:00 PM
jayden jayden is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: JERSEY
Posts: 1,188
U.S. cities with bloated city proper populations due to annexation

For example, Houston is more than double the land area of NYC, three times the land area of Chicago. Same with Phoenix OKC, Jacksonville, and Nashville to name a few.

These cities are among the Top 20 largest cities in terms of populations outranking other major cities like Atlanta which only has a third of the land area within the city limits, yet receive flack from not having high populations within the city limits.

What other cities come to mind?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2020, 11:11 PM
The North One's Avatar
The North One The North One is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,008
Memphis is a very extreme example. It's city proper is basically it's entire metro area.
__________________
Spawn of questionable parentage!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2020, 11:46 PM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,030
I can't speak to which cities are large strictly due to annexation; or whether that is particularly excessive; but I can link to a list of U.S. cities by area:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cities_by_area

The largest are in Alaska, then Jacksonville, then 2 in Montana.

Thereafter, in addition to those cities named above, you would find San Antonio, Dallas, Fort Worth, Los Angeles, San Diego and Indianapolis among those larger than NYC in land area.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 12:03 AM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,030
I overwhelmingly tend to perceive under-annexation as more of a problem in the U.S.

I think of Detroit, Buffalo, Atlanta and Miami as cities that are obviously under-sized relative to their urban area.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 12:17 AM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is online now
E pluribus unum
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 30,727
Columbus, OH
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 12:29 AM
bnk's Avatar
bnk bnk is online now
પટેલ. કે ન
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: chicagoland
Posts: 11,412
Indianapolis takes up its entire county. Marion County. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_County,_Indiana

If Chicago did the same with Cook county it would bloat over 5 million people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_County,_Illinois

Last edited by bnk; Oct 25, 2020 at 1:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 1:14 AM
BnaBreaker's Avatar
BnaBreaker BnaBreaker is offline
Future God
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Chicago/Nashville
Posts: 18,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post
Memphis is a very extreme example. It's city proper is basically it's entire metro area.
Memphis is hardly the worst offender though. At 315 square miles it's definitely amongst the larger cities in terms of square mileage but more or less on par with places like Kansas City, Austin, Charlotte, and San Diego. It is true that Memphis has done it's fair share of annexation over the years. In 1970 the city was 'just' 217 square miles compared to it's 315 today, for example. However, the city also already had 623,000 residents by 1970, so it's not like it's further annexation over the past five decades makes up a very significant part of it's current overall population.

Also, the main reason the city proper accounts for so much of the metro's population is because there is really nothing of significance in the metro outside of Memphis. There is Memphis, it's few suburbs, and then basically a bunch of agricultural land.
__________________
"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds."

-Bob Marley

Last edited by BnaBreaker; Oct 25, 2020 at 1:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 1:41 AM
bnk's Avatar
bnk bnk is online now
પટેલ. કે ન
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: chicagoland
Posts: 11,412
I posted this before but Anchorage Alaska is huge in size but it matters little in any gain in population though.




I know most of Anchorage Alaska is mostly not urban but that is probably the largest footprint of city limits in the USA that I know of on a per capita basis.


1,944.05 sq mi


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchorage,_Alaska


it is Alaska's most populous city and contains 39.37% of the state's population; among the 50 states, only New York has a higher percentage of residents who live in its most populous city. The Anchorage metropolitan area, which includes Anchorage and the neighboring Matanuska-Susitna Borough, had a population of 396,317 in 2019, accounting for more than half the state's population. At 1,706 square miles (4,420 km2) of land area, the city is the fourth-largest by area in the United States and larger than the smallest state, Rhode Island, which has 1,212 square miles (3,140 km2)

The city limits span 1,961.1 square miles (5,079.2 km2),
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 2:57 AM
ChiSoxRox's Avatar
ChiSoxRox ChiSoxRox is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 2,177
A good way to attempt to quantify this would be the cities that have the largest percentage of their urban areas in their city limits. Here's the leading metros over 1,000,000 by percentage in the city center (using MSAs which are bloated but easier to find the 2019 numbers for):

San Antonio - 60.7%
Jacksonville - 58.4%
(Fresno - 53.2%) - 999k in 2019 estimates
Tucson - 52.3%
San Jose - 51.3% (Yes, I know San Jose MSA is silly)
Louisville - 48.8%
Memphis - 48.4%
Oklahoma City - 46.5%
Austin - 44.0%
New York City - 43.4% (the lingering effects of 1898)
San Diego - 42.7%
Columbus - 42.3%
Indianapolis - 42.2%

Two sub-million examples
El Paso - 80.6%
Anchorage - 72.7%
__________________
Like the pre-war masonry skyscrapers? Then check out my list of the tallest buildings in 1950.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 4:04 AM
SpawnOfVulcan's Avatar
SpawnOfVulcan SpawnOfVulcan is offline
Cat Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: America's Magic City
Posts: 3,773
Huntsville, AL is great example as well. The city has annexed land in Madison (county seat of), Limestone, and Morgan (part of a separate MSA). It could be the largest (by population) city in Alabama as of the 2020 Census.
__________________
SSP Alabama Metros: Birmingham (City Compilation) - Huntsville - Mobile - Montgomery - Tuscaloosa - Daphne-Fairhope - Decatur

SSP Alabama Universities: Alabama - UAB - Alabama State
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 4:27 AM
Northern Light Northern Light is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,030
The largest city (in area) in the Province of Ontario, Canada, or anywhere outside the Province of Quebec, in Canada is Sudbury.

• City (single-tier) 3,228.35 km2 (1,246.47 sq mi)

But Quebec has some a wee bit bigger.

La Tuque, Quebec

• City 28,098.60 km2 (10,848.93 sq mi)

Senneterre

• Total 16,323.70 km2 (6,302.62 sq mi)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 6:27 AM
bnk's Avatar
bnk bnk is online now
પટેલ. કે ન
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: chicagoland
Posts: 11,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
The largest city (in area) in the Province of Ontario, Canada, or anywhere outside the Province of Quebec, in Canada is Sudbury.

• City (single-tier) 3,228.35 km2 (1,246.47 sq mi)

But Quebec has some a wee bit bigger.

La Tuque, Quebec

• City 28,098.60 km2 (10,848.93 sq mi)

Senneterre

• Total 16,323.70 km2 (6,302.62 sq mi)
Almost 11 million square miles?

Wtf?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 10:34 AM
Minato Ku's Avatar
Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
Tokyo and Paris fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 3,987
Where did you see 11 million square miles ?
It's 11 thousand square miles.

Anyway because those towns are located in empty land, those huge areas don't really inflate the population figure.
Context is everything when comparing data.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 2:59 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxRox View Post
A good way to attempt to quantify this would be the cities that have the largest percentage of their urban areas in their city limits. Here's the leading metros over 1,000,000 by percentage in the city center (using MSAs which are bloated but easier to find the 2019 numbers for):

San Antonio - 60.7%
Not surprised at all. I live in SA and it’s MUCH worse than Houston in this respect.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 3:02 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
Indianapolis takes up its entire county. Marion County. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_County,_Indiana

If Chicago did the same with Cook county it would bloat over 5 million people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_County,_Illinois
Yep. Same with Houston. It would double its population to 4.7 million.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 3:07 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayden View Post
For example, Houston is more than double the land area of NYC, three times the land area of Chicago. Same with Phoenix OKC, Jacksonville, and Nashville to name a few.

These cities are among the Top 20 largest cities in terms of populations outranking other major cities like Atlanta which only has a third of the land area within the city limits, yet receive flack from not having high populations within the city limits.

What other cities come to mind?
It has been 25 years since Houston made any large annexations. In that time the metro population has added 3 million people, nearly doubling its size. The city itself has added 500k since then.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 3:49 PM
jbermingham123's Avatar
jbermingham123 jbermingham123 is offline
Registered (Nimby Ab)User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: At a computer, wasting my life on a skyscraper website
Posts: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
Where did you see 11 million square miles ?
It's 11 thousand square miles.

Anyway because those towns are located in empty land, those huge areas don't really inflate the population figure.
Context is everything when comparing data.
Good point... context aside tho, I still cant believe Canada has a city with an area of 11 billion square miles
__________________
Anything not forbidden by the laws of physics is achievable, given the right knowledge
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 4:04 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bay Area/ Houston
Posts: 31,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
It has been 25 years since Houston made any large annexations. In that time the metro population has added 3 million people, nearly doubling its size. The city itself has added 500k since then.
And the last area Houston did annex (Kingwood) back in 1996 probably had 60k people back then. About 80k now. Small potatoes compared to Houston's overall population and they're still pissed about it around here.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 4:53 PM
mthd mthd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 873
setting aside somewhat irrelevant statistical dick measuring, i have to wonder if some of the inefficiency and waste in US government has to do with this hyper-balkanization of urban boundaries.

i grew up in silicon valley. in a 300 square mile area there are 10 or more independent cities. saratoga, los gatos, sunnyvale, cupertino, santa clara, san jose, mountain view, palo alto, fremont, milpitas, etc, each with a more-or-less complete governance structure. a scant few things are handled on the county level, and there are even too many of those.

the actual number of employees might not be all that different at the rank-and-file, but the number of "leaders" and leadership structures and different rules and regulations would be far lower. there would be one mayor, one city council, one planning commission or board, one chief of police, and so on, instead of dozens of each.

is it a coincidence that regions which are generally regarded as more efficient or business friendly have proportionally larger boundaries?

what would a bay area look like with the same 7-8M people but 3 fewer counties (6 instead of 9) and 50 fewer municipalities (50 instead of 100, with most of the combinations being in the urban core)?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2020, 5:07 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthd View Post
is it a coincidence that regions which are generally regarded as more efficient or business friendly have proportionally larger boundaries?

what would a bay area look like with the same 7-8M people but 3 fewer counties (6 instead of 9) and 50 fewer municipalities (50 instead of 100, with most of the combinations being in the urban core)?
I don't know the answer but I'd bet it could be found by studying the history of Toronto.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:55 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.