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  #2001  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 3:09 PM
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But think of the turtles??????

https://tj.news/story/101363579?ref=...Nlp63ot5GQGeyk (paywall)

Apparently opponents to the Skipper Jack's expansion proposal have found their golden bullet - Wood Turtles...........

They are likely living within the current ditch which masquerades as Rabbit Brook. They are apparently an endangered species in NB.

The Skipper Jack's project has already been rejected by the city planning office, and by the PAC, but is coming up before city council today for a final decision. Apparently turtle loving protesters are going to be massing in city hall plaza to vent their opinions. Their chants will likely be audible indoors in city council chambers.

I predict that no matter the merit of the Skipper Jack proposal, that it is now as dead as a doornail..............
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  #2002  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 4:13 PM
adamuptownsj adamuptownsj is offline
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
But think of the turtles??????

https://tj.news/story/101363579?ref=...Nlp63ot5GQGeyk (paywall)

Apparently opponents to the Skipper Jack's expansion proposal have found their golden bullet - Wood Turtles...........

They are likely living within the current ditch which masquerades as Rabbit Brook. They are apparently an endangered species in NB.

The Skipper Jack's project has already been rejected by the city planning office, and by the PAC, but is coming up before city council today for a final decision. Apparently turtle loving protesters are going to be massing in city hall plaza to vent their opinions. Their chants will likely be audible indoors in city council chambers.

I predict that no matter the merit of the Skipper Jack proposal, that it is now as dead as a doornail..............
Turtles or not, can they not put parking in anywhere that isn't a wetland? Good lord. Paving over urban streams is something we should be UNdoing, and I'm no greeny.
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  #2003  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 5:29 PM
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"It's already bad, so what's the harm in making it just a little worse" is the kind of thinking that put a dump on mudflats created by the causeway.
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  #2004  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 6:01 PM
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Yes, well, I have already pointed out that in general, I am not a supporter of burying urban waterways, but I also believe that individual projects should be considered on their own merits, and in this case, I think the merits of the Skipper Jack's proposal are such that I am inclined to let them proceed.

In this particular case, Rabbit Brook is not much more than a weed choked and litter strewn ditch, no more than a few hundred metres from it's end point where it disappears under Plaza Blvd and the Moncton Chrysler dealership lot. It reappears beyond this as a dried up flood retention pond. There are no fish in Rabbit Brook at this point, but I will concede that there some amphibians and turtles, and it provides some habitat for small mammals and birds, which is a consideration. Still, the arguments to maintain Rabbit Brook in it's current state in this particular location are pretty weak.

As I've said though, this is now a moot point. Now that the activists are involved, any responsible politician will be heading for the high hills, or seeking cover under their desks. This proposal is dead, dead, dead.............
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  #2005  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 6:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mylesmalley View Post
"It's already bad, so what's the harm in making it just a little worse" is the kind of thinking that put a dump on mudflats created by the causeway.
Mount Rideout was unquestionably the worst possible decision ever made by any municipal council in the history of this city. It falls quite clearly under the category of "what were they thinking"...................

Now that it's there though, the city should be doing more to rehabilitate this environmental catastrophe. I know moving it is not an option, and it can not be built on for obvious reasons (leachate, methane gas etc), but the current trail network could be improved , and an actual forest could be planted so that in 20-30 years time there could actually be a nice natural area and park on the site.
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  #2006  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by adamuptownsj View Post
Turtles or not, can they not put parking in anywhere that isn't a wetland? Good lord. Paving over urban streams is something we should be UNdoing, and I'm no greeny.
I could be wrong, but wasn’t Skipper Jacks for sale a couple years ago? And I think brokers were promoting the site that it could be expanded and tear down Skipper Jacks for a big brand fast food with drive through and a possible gas station. Any chance this proposal by Skipper Jacks is to increase property value for future sale? If they are saying it is needed for parking lot expansion then the city should tie any agreement for expansion to the current building and use.
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  #2007  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Yes, well, I have already pointed out that in general, I am not a supporter of burying urban waterways, but I also believe that individual projects should be considered on their own merits, and in this case, I think the merits of the Skipper Jack's proposal are such that I am inclined to let them proceed.

In this particular case, Rabbit Brook is not much more than a weed choked and litter strewn ditch, no more than a few hundred metres from it's end point where it disappears under Plaza Blvd and the Moncton Chrysler dealership lot. It reappears beyond this as a dried up flood retention pond. There are no fish in Rabbit Brook at this point, but I will concede that there some amphibians and turtles, and it provides some habitat for small mammals and birds, which is a consideration. Still, the arguments to maintain Rabbit Brook in it's current state in this particular location are pretty weak.

As I've said though, this is now a moot point. Now that the activists are involved, any responsible politician will be heading for the high hills, or seeking cover under their desks. This proposal is dead, dead, dead.............
Council has said no to Skipper Jack's. Their request was defeated.

Deny: Arnold, Edgett, Lawrence, Leger, Theriault, Boudreau.

Allow: Crossman, Butler, Hicks.

Pellerin didn't vote after declaring conflict.
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  #2008  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 12:27 PM
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These initial designs are often more a bargaining chip than a realistic design. Throw something at the wall and see what sticks. I am glad this didn't as it sets (or continues) a bad precedence.
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  #2009  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mylesmalley View Post
"It's already bad, so what's the harm in making it just a little worse" is the kind of thinking that put a dump on mudflats created by the causeway.
To be honest, it's nothing new. You can look all around this city to see things done "wrong", or that we know now are wrong. Look at all the wetlands that have been destroyed in the area. Champlain Mall, the traffic circle, parts of UdeM built on wetlands. They are removing the causeway to restore the natural flow of the river yet put more rock along the shoreline to stop erosion. Doesn't that stop the natural flow and meander of the river? Of course it does, but it needs to be done otherwise Moncton would disappear into the river. We pick and choose, at the time, what we want.
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  #2010  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunnybrae View Post
To be honest, it's nothing new. You can look all around this city to see things done "wrong", or that we know now are wrong. Look at all the wetlands that have been destroyed in the area. Champlain Mall, the traffic circle, parts of UdeM built on wetlands. They are removing the causeway to restore the natural flow of the river yet put more rock along the shoreline to stop erosion. Doesn't that stop the natural flow and meander of the river? Of course it does, but it needs to be done otherwise Moncton would disappear into the river. We pick and choose, at the time, what we want.
I think some of the rocks were to stop the erosion of the dump lands into the river. Thinking of all the toxic waste that’s there, it would be a huge disaster if it got into the waterway. On the Riverview side, it’s literally to protect the park and businesses located along the river. In this case the river is already located where it always has been, the rocks were intended to prevent further unwanted erosion.
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  #2011  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 2:06 PM
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The ironic thing about flowing waters is that once you stop interfering with them, you have to keep interfering with them because they'll do "what they want".

Just because the river looked a certain way in 1960, doesn't mean removing the causeway will make it return to exactly that... channels move and rivers carve and recarve themselves. Nothing to say it wouldn't naturally reroute itself into a place it wasn't before it was dammed up.

Hence the need for riprap and stones...
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  #2012  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 3:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Vorkuta View Post
The ironic thing about flowing waters is that once you stop interfering with them, you have to keep interfering with them because they'll do "what they want".

Just because the river looked a certain way in 1960, doesn't mean removing the causeway will make it return to exactly that... channels move and rivers carve and recarve themselves. Nothing to say it wouldn't naturally reroute itself into a place it wasn't before it was dammed up.

Hence the need for riprap and stones...
It’s never going to look the way it did in 1960 anyway, because the old dump, the ball fields and part of Assumption Blvd are on built on the former riverbank. It will at least restore some resemblance of what it look liked though.
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  #2013  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 3:17 PM
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Perhaps if instead of the 'paving over' concept they had come up with a greener approach or perhaps some form of remediation of the brook and connection to the trail just down the street, it would have been better received.

Honestly, I'm actually shocked that restaurant has actually survived, I ate there once and thought it was horrible.
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  #2014  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 4:55 PM
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Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes View Post
I think some of the rocks were to stop the erosion of the dump lands into the river. Thinking of all the toxic waste that’s there, it would be a huge disaster if it got into the waterway. On the Riverview side, it’s literally to protect the park and businesses located along the river. In this case the river is already located where it always has been, the rocks were intended to prevent further unwanted erosion.
Yes, steps were taken to protect the river from the old dump. Riprap was placed on both sides of the river to protect business and ironically, parks. Of course no one mentioned the wetlands, just the river, because wetlands are less desirable. Taking out the causeway will restore the river flow rate to a previous number but in no way a "natural state". That time is long gone. Same as the wetlands. We have no idea what the river was like before Moncton was built so you can't say that it is "located where it has always been". It could have been more north or more south. We manipulate the environment to suit our needs. So, filling in an intercity ditch is, in the grand scheme, not that big a deal.
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  #2015  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2020, 11:21 PM
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They have delivered a bunch of prefab wooden walls at 2265 Mountain road. This building might go up really fast.



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Last edited by Whitites; Sep 25, 2020 at 4:26 PM.
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  #2016  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 7:11 PM
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There is now a second crane on site at 2265 Mountain Road. I think the intent will be to have the superstructure complete and hopefully enclosed before hard winter arrives at the end of the year.
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  #2017  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 7:18 PM
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This development now has a name - The Village at Twin Oaks

I am busy trying to decide whether or not a project specific thread for this development is justifiable.

On one hand, this development will actually be bigger than the Junction Urban Village, which has it's own thread, but this project is suburban, and contains a much smaller commercial component than the Junction. I'm inclined to give it a thread, but I think I'll hold off until construction starts next summer.
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  #2018  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 4:45 PM
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There is now a second crane on site at 2265 Mountain Road. I think the intent will be to have the superstructure complete and hopefully enclosed before hard winter arrives at the end of the year.
The big crane is for the cement and the smaller is for putting up the prefab walls. My neighbor was saying they are going to start on the second building. I thought they had to have 50% +1 rented out before they could lay the foundation for the second one. Today they are capping the test and purge lines in the middle of the road and should be paving today or tomorrow.

Just drove by, they actually paved over the spots they had dug.
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Last edited by Whitites; Oct 6, 2020 at 12:08 AM.
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  #2019  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 3:08 PM
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Another proposed six storey apartment building for the west end of Mountain Road.

Quote:
CG Group on behalf of/ au nom de TNT Sales Ltd 2430 chemin Mountain Road, Moncton (PID/NID 00939207) a conditional use to allow a multiple unit building in the R3 zone and variances to (1) reduce the required setback for development from a watercourse from 30 meters to 15 meters at the narrowest point; (2) not provide a front entrance facing the street; (3) reduce the special setback on Mountain Road from 10 meters to 7.04 meters at one corner to allow the construction of a six storey multiple unit dwelling with 106 units
Locator map:


Site plan:


Elevation:


Render:


There is now a quite substantial cluster of larger apartment buildings in this area of Mountain Road, and the adjacent Diamond Head Court. One wonders how long it will be before somebody has the bright idea to build a neighbourhood retail plaza on Mountain Road in front of the Home Hardware there and backing on the TCH. It would seem a natural location for something to be built, perhaps even a grocery store.

Also, it is high time the city (or a developer) built a trail from Diamond Head (or Oak Ridge) along that stream down to Mountain Road. It would be well used, especially if my (thought-experiment) retail plaza were ever built. Of course, a pedestrian activated street crossing on Mountain Road would have to be installed.
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Last edited by MonctonRad; Oct 14, 2020 at 3:42 PM.
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  #2020  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2020, 3:54 PM
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Yeah there are a LOT of people in that area now (and after these big buildings get built), and as far as I can tell the closest grocery store is the Superstore at Mapleton and the Sobeys next to NBCC. A new grocery store, probably Sobeys, is just screaming to be built there.

A drug store and some restaurants to fill in the rest of the mini-mall complex there would probably work well too.

Eyeballing Google Maps, the forested area between Gorge Road and Mountain, is that protected land? If it isn't, I could see a connecter between the roads (branching off near the TCH interchange and maybe linking up near that farmland section) could open that area up for more development.
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