[Dartmouth] 307 Prince Albert Road | ? m | 16 fl | U/C

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by atbw

My money is on a hotel not being a huge priority given the state of things right now.

I wonder how much Monaco Investments regrets changing the proposal from apartments to a hotel.

[essaysmith]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

I wonder how much Monaco Investments regrets changing the proposal from apartments to a hotel.

I would guess they don't regret it. The city had pushed them down to 6 or 8 stories with apartments, and I would put dollars to donuts that the hotel suites in this building would be easily converted into apartments in the future. They will end up getting 16 stories of apartments in the long run instead of the 10 they were asking for.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by essaysmith

I would put dollars to donuts that the hotel suites in this building would be easily converted into apartments in the future. They will end up getting 16 stories of apartments in the long run instead of the 10 they were asking for.

You may be right. Time will tell, but I think it's actually a pretty good hotel location too.

[atbw]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

You may be right. Time will tell, but I think it's actually a pretty good hotel location too.

I think it's more of 'no hurry to get this done' than a 'hotels are dead.' It's a very solid location for paddling events, Shubie Park, and isn't really all that far from the centre. But if I had two projects on the go, I'd definitely be prioritizing a long-term rental vs. a hotel.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by atbw

I think it's more of 'no hurry to get this done' than a 'hotels are dead.' It's a very solid location for paddling events, Shubie Park, and isn't really all that far from the centre. But if I had two projects on the go, I'd definitely be prioritizing a long-term rental vs. a hotel.

Even if they rushed to finish this it wouldn't open until what, 2022? Tourism may well be okay, or even somewhat "rebounded", in 2022 or 2023.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by atbw

It's a very solid location for paddling events,

Yes, and the 2022 world championships are on Lake Banook.

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by essaysmith

I would guess they don't regret it. The city had pushed them down to 6 or 8 stories with apartments, and I would put dollars to donuts that the hotel suites in this building would be easily converted into apartments in the future. They will end up getting 16 stories of apartments in the long run instead of the 10 they were asking for.

It's actually a little bit more murky than that. Council approved 8, but it's not just a simple 16 - 8. The hotel is only allowed on the commercial portion of the property. That's where the as-of-right zoning allows it. The developers property at 4 Glenwood Avenue can't be used as part of the hotel project. That isn't true in the residential option though. If the developer had built the residential project, 4 Glenwood would have had 4 storeys of apartments on it. Basically, in the residential version of the project the building would have been wider.

[DigitalNinja]

Originally Posted by spaustin

It's actually a little bit more murky than that. Council approved 8, but it's not just a simple 16 - 8. The hotel is only allowed on the commercial portion of the property. That's where the as-of-right zoning allows it. The developers property at 4 Glenwood Avenue can't be used as part of the hotel project. That isn't true in the residential option though. If the developer had built the residential project, 4 Glenwood would have had 4 storeys of apartments on it. Basically, in the residential version of the project the building would have been wider.

So like always council gave into NIMBY demands, approved something that would have been worse for the environment and more out of human scale by being wide then a slimmer building offering more homes for people to live in when the city has a housing crisis going on in both rental and purchase properties? Nice to see that you and council have the peoples best interests in mind.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

So like always council gave into NIMBY demands, approved something that would have been worse for the environment and more out of human scale by being wide then a slimmer building offering more homes for people to live in when the city has a housing crisis going on in both rental and purchase properties? Nice to see that you and council have the peoples best interests in mind.

One, “slim tower = better for environment” may be true in many cases but I would stray from saying all, let alone most cases. Mid-rise structures can often be built with less resource intensive (and cheaper) materials, the “passive house” going up on Agricola is a good example of a “green” mid-rise.

I see how a slim tower can be more aesthetically pleasing, but to call it human scale is a bit of a stretch.

Finally, the main point being made was that the building being taller didn’t necessarily mean more units on site because of the smaller footprint. Tall or not, these are hotel rooms so I think concerns about the housing crisis are better placed on what Monaco decided to do with the structure and not its appearance.

[DigitalNinja]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

One, “slim tower = better for environment” may be true in many cases but I would stray from saying all, let alone most cases. Mid-rise structures can often be built with less resource intensive (and cheaper) materials, the “passive house” going up on Agricola is a good example of a “green” mid-rise.

I see how a slim tower can be more aesthetically pleasing, but to call it human scale is a bit of a stretch.

Finally, the main point being made was that the building being taller didn’t necessarily mean more units on site because of the smaller footprint. Tall or not, these are hotel rooms so I think concerns about the housing crisis are better placed on what Monaco decided to do with the structure and not its appearance.

You're first point is correct, I doubt this would have any any environmental consideration put into the construction though if it was to go forward as an 8/4 story wide building.

Tall buildings provide more opportunity for set backs, increase density, and provide more opportunities for retail on the bottom floor, much more difficult to fill 2x more retail spaces etc. (If this is in the plans). It also allows for future development on other lots that again would provide more homes for people regardless of the difference in units. - Also they are cheaper for the city when considering services to sites.

My main concern is that planners and council knew they could build a hotel as of right. They knew the developer wanted to build 16 stories on the site. They chose to fight against the development call a "bluff" and lost. In the end we are stuck with a hotel instead of additional much needed housing for people.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

In the end we are stuck with a hotel instead of additional much needed housing for people.

"Stuck with" a hotel? It's a perfectly appropriate use for that site, in my opinion.

As low as the current vacancy rate is, the sky isn't exactly falling so far as housing is concerned. There are lots of residential units going up in HRM right now. Tightening of the market is cyclical and supply and demand forces generally take care of it.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

"Stuck with" a hotel? It's a perfectly appropriate use for that site, in my opinion.

As low as the current vacancy rate is, the sky isn't exactly falling so far as housing is concerned. There are lots of residential units going up in HRM right now. Tightening of the market is cyclical and supply and demand forces generally take care of it.

I wonder what will happen if the developer decides to market it as an "apartment hotel" or "residence inn" once completed. The bureaucratic brains in the HRM Planning Dept may explode.

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

"Stuck with" a hotel? It's a perfectly appropriate use for that site, in my opinion.

As low as the current vacancy rate is, the sky isn't exactly falling so far as housing is concerned. There are lots of residential units going up in HRM right now. Tightening of the market is cyclical and supply and demand forces generally take care of it.

I do picture the cost of rentals stagnating sometime in the future, but ultimately I don’t think these problems will ever go away so long as the exchange value of housing takes precedence over its use value.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Good Baklava

ultimately I don’t think these problems will ever go away so long as the exchange value of housing takes precedence over its use value.

"Ever"?

The vacancy rate in Halifax was less than 1% in the early-mid 80s (which I remember only too well as an apartment-hunter). Time changed that.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I wonder what will happen if the developer decides to market it as an "apartment hotel" or "residence inn" once completed. The bureaucratic brains in the HRM Planning Dept may explode.

Well worth it for the entertainment value alone.

All of a sudden I'm fondly recalling Louis Del Grande in "Scanners"...

[Good Baklava]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

"Ever"?

The vacancy rate in Halifax was less than 1% in the early-mid 80s (which I remember only too well as an apartment-hunter). Time changed that.

Of course the vacancy rate will rise, but as Windsor ON has demonstrated higher vacancy rates can still be accompanied by increasing rents. I just don’t see the market ever becoming less volatile, just periods of returning stress and the occasional PR strategy/“National Housing Strategy” to bring some temporary sense of progress. It has been nearly 30 years since the end of major investments in social housing, which had its own problems partly caused by the philosophy public housing shouldn’t compete with the market. Maybe it’s natural to assume there are winners and losers, and I think that’s part of the problem.

[pc123]

looks like this site has been progressing pretty good as of late

[kph06]

A rendering of this is available on Instagram:

CPJ Construction on Instagram

[pc123]

They were pouring part of level 4 over the weekend

[pc123]

does anyone know what is happening on this site? is it even active?