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  #17801  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2013, 10:10 PM
untitledreality untitledreality is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Possibly. The concept of pillaging struggling towns for their architectural heritage is kind of icky to most preservationists. Usually the decision to relocate comes after all options for reuse have been exhausted, and the building must be torn down due to decay or replacement with something new.

Relocating small-town buildings to Avondale or East Garfield Park just sets off my moral alarm bells, though. Not only is it an affront to the small town, stripping it of potentially valuable assets, but it is also a statement of no confidence in Chicago architects' ability to design handsome, appealing infill. It's not really a savings from the cost perspective; you'd still need an architect to design a code-compliant building behind the facade, since relocations are considered new construction.
Some towns/cities are destined to die. Its inevitable. Why should we let beautiful pieces of architecture die with them? Masonry products are not the same as they were 100 years ago, displacing them is much better than sending them off to a landfill imo.

Taking an exemplary neglected/abandoned building from a place like Hannibal, Detroit, Superior, Englewood and relocating it to a vacant lot in a more attractive neighborhood seems like a great way to preserve a piece of the past, while giving yourself an attractive, aged structure that would fit seamlessly into similarly aged neighborhoods. Building something behind it is not a problem... a facade is a facade. And it is not about saving money... its about delivering a product that cannot be replicated.


In regards to Chicago architects and their ability... next time you are in Chicago take a look around. No one should have ANY confidence that any given project will turn out well. Contractors slap up repetitive garbage, bottom dweller architects with no skill pander to the dollar and when you do happen to find a builder or architect who does good work, the costs are typically beyond that of the average purchaser.
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  #17802  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2013, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by untitledreality View Post
In regards to Chicago architects and their ability... next time you are in Chicago take a look around. No one should have ANY confidence that any given project will turn out well. Contractors slap up repetitive garbage, bottom dweller architects with no skill pander to the dollar and when you do happen to find a builder or architect who does good work, the costs are typically beyond that of the average purchaser.
This is a fucking ridiculous claim.
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  #17803  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2013, 10:49 PM
untitledreality untitledreality is offline
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Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G View Post
This is a fucking ridiculous claim.
Oh really? Pay attention next time you walk through Lakeview, Andersonville, West Town, Logan, etc.
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  #17804  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2013, 12:58 AM
i_am_hydrogen i_am_hydrogen is offline
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Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
Hydro, what's going to happen to the existing Loyola structures between Pearson and Chicago? Can we hope the red brick bunker along State will be gone 10 years from now?
There was no mention of it at the meeting, but I can't imagine it'll be around in 10 years.
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  #17805  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2013, 1:04 AM
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^Actually, I was giving a bus tour today and as we came across Division from Humboldt to the Kennedy, I was noticing how accomplished most of the new infill is. Not perfect, but well-composed, muscular, and sure-footed. No tentative steps or lazy compromises; no pretend olde-fashioned, panelized brick, or Dryvit. Compare to what you'd get as contemporary infill on a similar streetcar strip in Atlanta, Dallas, or Seattle.
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  #17806  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2013, 2:05 AM
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Originally Posted by untitledreality View Post
Oh really? Pay attention next time you walk through Lakeview, Andersonville, West Town, Logan, etc.
You need to pay attention when you walk past the innumerable good developments with high quality outcomes.
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  #17807  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2013, 9:38 AM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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Originally Posted by untitledreality View Post
Some towns/cities are destined to die. Its inevitable. Why should we let beautiful pieces of architecture die with them? Masonry products are not the same as they were 100 years ago, displacing them is much better than sending them off to a landfill imo.

Taking an exemplary neglected/abandoned building from a place like Hannibal, Detroit, Superior, Englewood and relocating it to a vacant lot in a more attractive neighborhood seems like a great way to preserve a piece of the past, while giving yourself an attractive, aged structure that would fit seamlessly into similarly aged neighborhoods. Building something behind it is not a problem... a facade is a facade. And it is not about saving money... its about delivering a product that cannot be replicated.


In regards to Chicago architects and their ability... next time you are in Chicago take a look around. No one should have ANY confidence that any given project will turn out well. Contractors slap up repetitive garbage, bottom dweller architects with no skill pander to the dollar and when you do happen to find a builder or architect who does good work, the costs are typically beyond that of the average purchaser.
Only issue is you are putting an old facade on a complete new-build. Sometimes, proportions of the facade components just don't line up all that well with what people want on the inside. I've seen a few buildings around town that reused stuff from older buildings. In a piecemeal situation, it looked awful. But I imagine if you use the entire kit, the new structure with the old facade grafted on would look great.

Or else, I guess you just move the whole building. But some of the larger structures can get expensive. Ann Arbor has been relocating older buildings to allow for denser development. That came at the cost of reconstructing an entire bridge so that it could carry the load of larger buildings moved across it. Well beyond typical design load.

http://goo.gl/maps/Irtg2

In chicago's case, we have lots of low bridges. Might be a problem so kit sets are probably the best choice.
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  #17808  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2013, 3:24 PM
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  #17809  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2013, 3:28 PM
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  #17810  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2013, 4:50 PM
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^^Excellent photo tour this morning JMT. Thanks for all of the photos!
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  #17811  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2013, 5:14 PM
Notyrview Notyrview is offline
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Yes, second that, you are awesome.
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  #17812  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2013, 4:21 AM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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Parkside-Oldtown Target



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  #17813  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2013, 7:51 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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I don't know where to put this, but I keep hearing rumors that the PMD Ordinance is going to break. Supposedly both the Wrigley Site in McKinley Park and Finkl steel site are going to escape PMD zoning.

Also, of more interest to the crowd here, the Finkl site is going to be rezoned to mixed use retail and residential zoning. The area will be cleaned up and the redeveloped as a functioning part of the city. I just hope they save some of the old industrial elements along Cortland if they can because that is one of the coolest feeling areas in town.
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  #17814  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2013, 8:40 PM
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Good riddance. The PMD process should be revised to provide incentives instead of restrictive zoning. There are huge swaths of the South Side that could use industrial investment. Why are we wasting time shooing developers away from the North Branch and Kinzie Corridor?
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  #17815  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2013, 10:00 PM
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Second that, ^ and not to mention I've had at least 6 flat tires driving through that stretch of Cortland over the years. It's a mine field of metal shards. I'll certainly miss the road hazard scrap metal pick-up trucks attracted to the area by Finkl's. Raze the S**t Hole.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...ialty-steels/2
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  #17816  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2013, 12:25 AM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
I don't know where to put this, but I keep hearing rumors that the PMD Ordinance is going to break. Supposedly both the Wrigley Site in McKinley Park and Finkl steel site are going to escape PMD zoning.

Also, of more interest to the crowd here, the Finkl site is going to be rezoned to mixed use retail and residential zoning. The area will be cleaned up and the redeveloped as a functioning part of the city. I just hope they save some of the old industrial elements along Cortland if they can because that is one of the coolest feeling areas in town.
Could DePaul use some of the Finkl buildings for athletic facilities? You'd be surprised how well old steelworks buildings clean up. I think adpative reuse of some of the old foundry buildings is good theory. It's better than a complete tear down, generic residential replacement.
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  #17817  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2013, 4:12 AM
untitledreality untitledreality is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Also, of more interest to the crowd here, the Finkl site is going to be rezoned to mixed use retail and residential zoning. The area will be cleaned up and the redeveloped as a functioning part of the city. I just hope they save some of the old industrial elements along Cortland if they can because that is one of the coolest feeling areas in town.
I really hope these areas are built to their maximum potential instead of diluting to the point of walled off townhouse developments with big box retail.

Finkl is 5-10 min to the Armitage L, 0-5 min to the Clybourn 72, 5-10 min to Clybourn Metra and 5-10 min to the future Ashland BRT. Its right on the river, right on the Kennedy, right next to both Clybourn and Armitage retail corridors ... and right between two very very popular neighborhoods.

I would love to see the entire area between Webster/Clybourn/North/Kennedy to be redeveloped some day and Finkl could prove to be the first domino to fall. Lets hope it is successful and encourages a strong push to remake the entire area.
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  #17818  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2013, 4:19 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
Could DePaul use some of the Finkl buildings for athletic facilities? You'd be surprised how well old steelworks buildings clean up. I think adpative reuse of some of the old foundry buildings is good theory. It's better than a complete tear down, generic residential replacement.
I doubt they could do that. From what I understand that parcel is heavily contaminated and will require fairly major soil remediation. Also, these kinds of "metal shed" industrial buildings are not worth converting into anything else. They essentially hold no heat in the winter (because they don't have to since so much heat is generated in industrial applications) and tend to have major long term maintenance issues.

Personally, I'd rather see this go the way I hear it's going to provide a more intensive use and make this a functioning part of the city again. Also, I'm a big proponent of the highest and best use which, in this case, is a moderately dense mix of retail and residential. After all, this is just across the bridge from a Metra stop. I don't really want another non-profit taking a huge swath of the city off the tax rolls. Additionally, this is a huge complex and wayyyyy more than DePaul could ever use, much bigger than it looks from Cortland.
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  #17819  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2013, 5:26 AM
Joe Zekas Joe Zekas is offline
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The Finkl site


A. Finkl & Sons steel plant by YoChicago1, on Flickr

Shot last September. Click over to Flickr for larger versions.
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  #17820  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2013, 1:18 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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^^^ Joe's photo illustrates perfectly why it is so important that this be redeveloped into a mixed use commercial and residential neighborhood. Once the redevelopment is complete there will only be about a block to a block and a half of industrial wasteland preventing Lincoln Park and Wicker Park from having essentially one seamless link. I expect that, given property values in these areas, that last stretch will redevelop quickly and we will have our first real unbroken urban link/bridge between the North and Northwest sides where it is more or less pedestrian friendly from the Lakeshore all the way to Milwaukee Ave..

Besides the obvious feel-good urbanist symbolism of that accomplishment, I expect breaking through the Elston corridor and the fall of PMD zoning will be a catalyst for more "links" like this to develop all along the river channel. Maybe some day we will see the whole stinking suburban big box hell hole along Elston redeveloped a la Finkl and restored to consistent neighborhood fabric seamlessly connecting the entire North side of Chicago into an endless run of neighborhoods from 294 to the Lake.
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