Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

They are only spending $50 - $100 million on renos to Hamilton's arena. A significant amount to be sure, but nowhere near enough to bring it up to NHL standards. Probably need to spend an additional $150 - $200 million to bring it up to NHL standards like an actual separate upper deck concourse for the upper deck seats and a circle of sky suites above the upper deck. I seem to recall those proposals from 10 - 15 years ago that discussed these additions as well as some actual renders.

Both of these are essentially happening in the currently planned renos. They are adding some suites around the top of the lower bowl, and turning the storage level that's below the lower concourse, into a new concourse for the lower bowl, and the current concourse will be for the upper bowl. Also adding two premium lounge/clubs.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

I know the America vs Europe sports debate comes up every so often. But it is wild to me that the GTA doesn't have at least 3 teams in the NHL. Again different sport and different cultures but cities like Manchester, Liverpool, Lisbon, London, Edenborough can all support multiple football teams. Yet because of the closed shop nature of a franchised league, we are robbed of some really fun intercity rivalries.

I mean if you can take a train from Newark Penn to Penn Station New York - NJ Devils to NY Rangers in less than 20 minutes and have 2 teams. Why does the GTA not get that opportunity?

Forever wish to see an alternate universe of the NHL adopting the football promotion / relegation aspect with more community based teams that became big. Just thinking how fun would it be in a North American cup to watch the Montreal Canadians go to Charlottetown to play their 4th division professional team.

THIS!

Hamilton maybe/maybe not, but a second Toronto team in Miss or Markham, absolutely.

[J.OT13]

I agree. L.A. has two NHL teams, New York three teams. Very common in NBA and MLB as well to have multiple teams in one metro area, let alone city. For sure, the GTHA should have a second team. I'd love to see 10 teams in Canada, with that second in the GTHA and the return of the Nordiques.

We have groups jumping at the chance to buy the Sens, which will come with an additional Billion+ investment into an arena. Moving a team to Quebec City would be a cinch in comparison.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

THIS!

Hamilton maybe/maybe not, but a second Toronto team in Miss or Markham, absolutely.

Exactly, to me it screams of owners afraid of losing their hold on a population that will impact their bottom line for revenue.

Imagine if the Montreal Canadians and Montreal Wanderers were both still in the NHL. Using the Place Bell / Centre Bell arenas, imagine the cross river rivalry opportunities.

Like a Mets/Yankees, Dodges/Angels cross city rivalry.
Okay ranting over.

On topic lol I will be checking out the Videotron Center in March and really excited to see it in person finally.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

Imagine if the Montreal Canadians and Montreal Wanderers were both still in the NHL. Using the Place Bell / Centre Bell arenas, imagine the cross river rivalry opportunities.
.

I know what you mean though I think the Maroons and not the Wanderers would have been the team most likely to have survived until this day.

Note that the rivalry would have been even more awesome since the Canadiens were seen as the francophone team and the Maroons (and also the Wanderers before them) were the anglophone team.

After the Maroons folded in the 1930s, the Canadiens eventually became "everyone's team" in Montreal.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

This got me curious as to what the Canadian crowds are. Kind of surprised to see Vancouver at the top (according to Wikipedia). Guess the gamble to bring them under the Canucks umbrella paid off.

Re: the Rush specifically, from what I've heard the shine of the team has faded away since they got bought by the owners of Saskatoon's WHL team. Games used to be a drunken party, but apparently they've changed the focus and stuff like party bus deals with bars are no longer as common. No doubt the team's struggles play a factor, but... hard to imagine the key to maintaining interest in the team is running them like the worst junior team in the country.

I'm not really that familiar with sports team dynamics in Saskatoon but I always found it kind of odd that people filled the joint there for a team playing a relatively obscure sport like lacrosse (obscure in the sense that I'm betting most Rush fans probably couldn't have named a NLL player before the Rush moved there) while the Blades draw fairly poorly despite playing in a nice, comfortable venue. I get that the Blades don't have the most glorious history, but hockey is generally the main event in most Canadian cities.

That said, crowds have dropped, although that seems to be a common affliction for a lot of sports teams post-covid.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not really that familiar with sports team dynamics in Saskatoon but I always found it kind of odd that people filled the joint there for a team playing a relatively obscure sport like lacrosse (obscure in the sense that I'm betting most Rush fans probably couldn't have named a NLL player before the Rush moved there) while the Blades draw fairly poorly despite playing in a nice, comfortable venue. I get that the Blades don't have the most glorious history, but hockey is generally the main event in most Canadian cities.

That said, crowds have dropped, although that seems to be a common affliction for a lot of sports teams post-covid.

Yeah everyone is sadly more interested in turning inwards than being social (which I get to a certain extent). Covid really accelerated this trend. I think it's a symptom of greater social problems that were highlighted by the advent of covid.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I know what you mean though I think the Maroons and not the Wanderers would have been the team most likely to have survived until this day.

Note that the rivalry would have been even more awesome since the Canadiens were seen as the francophone team and the Maroons (and also the Wanderers before them) were the anglophone team.

After the Maroons folded in the 1930s, the Canadiens eventually became "everyone's team" in Montreal.

I believe the Canadians and Maroons had the same owner. Due to the depression, he had to fold one in order to keep the other team going.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by jonny24

Both of these are essentially happening in the currently planned renos. They are adding some suites around the top of the lower bowl, and turning the storage level that's below the lower concourse, into a new concourse for the lower bowl, and the current concourse will be for the upper bowl. Also adding two premium lounge/clubs.

Thanks for that. I wonder if both those main concourses will be big enough to handle crowds of 17,000 should the city gain an NHL team.

Yes, I do remember hearing that they would be adding suites to the lower bowl. If the NHL came to town, I'm sure they would add sky suites/club seats above the upper deck.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Thanks for that. I wonder if both those main concourses will be big enough to handle crowds of 17,000 should the city gain an NHL team.

Well you shouldn't need to wonder, as an NHL will never come anyway.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Well you shouldn't need to wonder, as an NHL will never come anyway.

Probably not, but we can't say with 100% certainty. What if they can't get significant public funding for the proposed new arena in Ottawa? I can't see the project going ahead without it. Perhaps Hamilton and Quebec City would be an option.

[esquire]

The situation can change, especially if the C$ shoots up again. I think that was one of the X-factors in Winnipeg landing a team.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

I know the America vs Europe sports debate comes up every so often. But it is wild to me that the GTA doesn't have at least 3 teams in the NHL.

It's not Toronto specifically but a lot of this comes down to the NHL's unwillingness to expand in the 1950s, Canadian owners not wanting Vancouver to join in 1967, Harold Ballard being one of the strongest voices against merging with/respecting the WHA through the 70s, and in general Canadian owners not wanting to share HNIC/CBC TV revenues.

The NHL needed revenue growth in US expansion in the 1960s and Canadian owners didn't want to split the pie further amongst themselves. IIRC, Vancouver was the only Canadian bid out of 14 total for the 1967 expansion.

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Probably not, but we can't say with 100% certainty. What if they can't get significant public funding for the proposed new arena in Ottawa?

Then the Senators would stay in Kanata, no? The NHL is committed to staying in the market.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not really that familiar with sports team dynamics in Saskatoon but I always found it kind of odd that people filled the joint there for a team playing a relatively obscure sport like lacrosse (obscure in the sense that I'm betting most Rush fans probably couldn't have named a NLL player before the Rush moved there) while the Blades draw fairly poorly despite playing in a nice, comfortable venue. I get that the Blades don't have the most glorious history, but hockey is generally the main event in most Canadian cities.

That said, crowds have dropped, although that seems to be a common affliction for a lot of sports teams post-covid.

Saskatoon's a bit of an odd city when it comes to sports. I'd argue football is the biggest spectator sport, with the Huskies, Hilltops, and Riders all having a major presence in the city. I'm confident in saying the Riders are the most popular team in the city despite them playing three hours south.

I think the Rush were just the right team at the right time, to be honest. They came in and immediately went after the 18+ crowd by having a party atmosphere and an exciting product. No Saskatoon-based team had ever tried that before (except maybe the Sirens ). The Blades only try to appeal to children and families. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's never going to create the same amount of buzz and excitement as what the Rush were doing.

[Hackslack]

I question Saskatoon’s overall desire for hockey. The blades are poorly supported, and I remember when they hosted the memorial cup a few years back it looked rather unsuccessful as well.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by jonny24

Both of these are essentially happening in the currently planned renos. They are adding some suites around the top of the lower bowl, and turning the storage level that's below the lower concourse, into a new concourse for the lower bowl, and the current concourse will be for the upper bowl. Also adding two premium lounge/clubs.

Are you sure about the lower concourse? I am not picturing how people would get to their seats. Would they have to punch some holes into the lower bowl?

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by BCTed

Are you sure about the lower concourse? I am not picturing how people would get to their seats. Would they have to punch some holes into the lower bowl?

Exactly

I wish I could just post plans but I signed an NDA.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Then the Senators would stay in Kanata, no? The NHL is committed to staying in the market.

Team staying in Ottawa is part of the sale condition, along with continuing negotiations to build a new arena at the Flats however, and don't think that actually building and arena at the Flats is part of the conditions. If it falls through, it falls through.

A new owner could still redevelop the acres of parking around the arena in Kanata and push the City/Province/Feds to build Stage 3 of the O-Train faster. Kanata will never be as successful as LeBreton could be, but there's a lot of room for improvement.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

I question Saskatoon’s overall desire for hockey. The blades are poorly supported, and I remember when they hosted the memorial cup a few years back it looked rather unsuccessful as well.

I recall attending one game (Blades/Mooseheads) that had 10K+ in attendance, but I can't speak for the remainder of the games.

I've always thought Saskatoon would be a great AHL city, especially now that there are actually other teams in Western Canada. Likely will never happen with the Blades being the primary tenant at Sask Place and the province being abandoned by airlines, though.

[Innsertnamehere]

The existing concourse at Copps definitely can’t handle 17,000. I was at the OHL game 7 game last year when they actually had 12,000 people there and the concourse was ridiculously, dangerously crush loaded between periods.