Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Colin May

HRM Financial Statements for year ending March 31 2019 show a $26.1 million surplus; just in time for pre-election spending over the next 15 months.
Deed Transfer Tax was $9 million over the budget of $37 million.
https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default.../190626ac4.pdf

Imagine how much they would have increased property taxes if they had only managed to balance the budget instead of running a surplus.

Somebody's got to pay for all those streets they are tearing up to make them unusable by vehicles.

[Haliguy]

Schooners finalizing business plan for HRM
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Francis Campbell (fcampbell@herald.ca)
Published: 2 hours ago
Updated: 2 hours ago
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Shannon Park, pictured here on Oct. 30, is the location for a stadium proposed by Schooners Sports. - Ryan Taplin
The bid to bring the Canadian Football League and a community stadium to Halifax has not moved the ball forward in recent months but behind-the-scenes analysis is expected to heat up after Canada Day.
“Schooners Sports and Entertainment (SSE) is working diligently to finalize a business plan and we anticipate presenting a proposal to senior staff at the Halifax Regional Municipality in the very near term,” Jim Armour, president of Summa Strategies, an Ottawa public relations firm working with SSE, said in an email.
“The proposal will address areas of concern that have been raised by the community and it will be validated by independent, third-party experts.”
SSE is the ownership group that wants to bring a 10th CFL team, the Atlantic Schooners, to Halifax.

Jacques Dube, chief administrative officer for HRM, said Wednesday that his group awaits the full proposal from Schooners Sports.
“We’re waiting for that so that we can start working on the evaluation and the feasibility analysis and the impacts,” Dube said. “That’s about a six-month process. If we get it (proposal) in early July that means we will probably get something before council by December.”
CFL talk regarding Halifax reignited in earnest some two years ago. The ownership group acquired the Atlantic Schooners trademark and approached the league about a conditional franchise. Anthony LeBlanc, former president of the Arizona Coyotes of the National Hockey League and one of three principal owners of SSE, originally projected a 24,000-seat stadium to be built at a cost of $190 million.
The stadium objective was later tempered to 12,000 permanent seats with a capability of adding 12,000 more temporary seats. The adjusted price tag for the community stadium is $130 million.
Through an agreement with Sport Nova Scotia, the stadium could accommodate minor sports when it is not in use for professional football. The field, including an air-inflated dome to cover it in colder months, could serve as a facility for minor soccer, football and rugby associations and school sports for 200 to 300 days a year.
SSE has been negotiating with Canada Lands, the federal Crown corporation tasked with managing and redeveloping surplus military properties, for the purchase of an eight-hectare plot of land in the 33-hectare Shannon Park site by Halifax harbour.
LeBlanc has said that SSE will be heavily involved on the financial side of the stadium and will take on the operational costs. The proposed municipal financial contribution would come from a public financing plan used as a subsidy for redevelopment, infrastructure and debt financing. A Tax Increment Financing plan would have some of the entire Shannon Park area reallocating funds from property taxes on area developments to pay the stadium's debt charges.
It has been suggested that the province’s financial contribution to a stadium could come in the form of legislative changes to allow HRM to collect car rental fees and hotel room levies.
“There are a lot of moving parts with this one,” Dube said. “There is also a discussion with the province and the private sector and the land owner.”
Chris Millier, real estate director for Canada Lands, said the land being considered for the community stadium is in the northeast portion of the Shannon Park property, adjacent to the railway tracks, land that had been identified primarily for commercial/employment with accessory residential uses in a 2016 park concept plan.
“CLC (Canada Lands) is requiring SSE to undertake public consultation regarding the proposed development of a community stadium,” Millier said by email. “CLC and SSE have entered into a letter of intent that establishes conditions that must be met before a commercial transaction can be considered, including a formal request being made to CLC by Halifax Regional Municipality and the province of Nova Scotia to accommodate the proposed use at Shannon Park.”
Dube said there is a lot of work to be done in terms of determining “any operating impacts on our municipal services – fire, police, transit and everything else.”
"We’re not willing to take on any risk, so we’ve got to put a barrier around, a firewall around the risk factors,” Dube said. “We don’t want to take any construction risk, financial risk, contractual risk in making this work. Hopefully, we’ll get a proposal and get to work on evaluating it.”
Armour said SSE and Canada Lands have engaged a number of world-class organizations to ensure that “we have considered all possible factors in the design, development and operation of a multi-use sports and entertainment facility.”

[Colin May]

The CFL story suddenly appears 3 days after the HRM Finance Committee reveals a
$26 million surplus. Obviously not a coincidence.

[elly63]

^Yes, LeBlanc can control the Chronically Horrid, yet another of his amazing unproven talents for manipulation. We should really be reading the Halifax Examiner if we want a true, factual, (cough, cough, leftist drivel) account of this story.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by elly63

^Yes, LeBlanc can control the Chronically Horrid, yet another of his amazing unproven talents for manipulation. We should really be reading the Halifax Examiner if we want a true, factual, (cough, cough, leftist drivel) account of this story.

You should really consider changing whatever meds or recreational drugs you are on as it is affecting your mental acuity. The Examiner is not a news site but an opinion site, and presents opinions from Bousquet and his minions that only his bobblehead supporters believe to be accurate. It has zero credibility as a news source on anything.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

You should really consider changing whatever meds or recreational drugs you are on as it is affecting your mental acuity. The Examiner is not a news site but an opinion site, and presents opinions from Bousquet and his minions that only his bobblehead supporters believe to be accurate. It has zero credibility as a news source on anything.

Methinks your sarcasm detection radar is turned off. Our good friend Colin is a subscriber, so if it's good enough for him...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by elly63

Methinks your sarcasm detection radar is turned off.

I got it from the CBC, so it doesn't work on holidays.

Our good friend Colin is a subscriber, so if it's good enough for him...

It may be a matter of Colin not being able to turn off an auto-renew credit card.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Colin May

The CFL story suddenly appears 3 days after the HRM Finance Committee reveals a
$26 million surplus. Obviously not a coincidence.

Surely a man of your vast experience would have learned by now not to believe what the local news media reports. A prime example is the matter of the political cartoonist DeAdder being released from the New Brunswick newspapers. There are 3 different stories making the rounds but the only one being bandied about by the press is the least credible of all, which is that he was let go because of a Trump cartoon, which is preposterous. Nevertheless the left and their many social media drones have made that excuse into a cause celebre. The other and to me more credible reason is that the Irving owned papers did not like his slant on most things, and the third reason is that this was planned well in advance and they signed a different cartoonist, according to a news release from the papers in question over the weekend.

Amazingly, nobody has stated what to me is the most credible reason at all - namely that he is a lousy cartoonist with a definite left-wing, dark and nasty side to his work. I had no use for him going way back to his Daily News years, though it is a profession in general which I find baffling as to its popularity among many. It strikes me as something which time has passed by.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

though it is a profession in general which I find baffling as to its popularity among many. It strikes me as something which time has passed by.

Kind of like newspapers in general. I worked in the media for over a decade, there is no journalism any more. It's a sad joke.

Back to the Schooners, I think people forget what a long and drawn out process this is, look at the Redblacks for example, how did the OG have the stamina to stand up to the regressive looney tunes and their protests and the political delays for such a long term, way longer than was forecast. Maybe it was because Jeff Hunt was a more likeable salesman than LeBlanc. Now LeBlanc may have brought some of this on himself with his self imposed unrealistically positive timelines but again this is going to take some time. Maybe he's learned to keep his trap shut. It doesn't make sense to me that this group would stay in the picture this long if they didn't have the resources to see it through. And like any other owner of course he doesn't want to spend his own money and wants somebody else to, that's business, don't spend your own money.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Amazingly, nobody has stated what to me is the most credible reason at all - namely that he is a lousy cartoonist with a definite left-wing, dark and nasty side to his work. I had no use for him going way back to his Daily News years, though it is a profession in general which I find baffling as to its popularity among many. It strikes me as something which time has passed by.

On the contrary, de Adder is a gifted political cartoonist, and surely one of the best in North America at the present time.

This is the cartoon in question:



Sometimes a picture really does say 1000 words. This cartoon clearly captures the callous indifference that Trump has to the refugee crisis on the southern border.

There are 3 different stories making the rounds but the only one being bandied about by the press is the least credible of all, which is that he was let go because of a Trump cartoon, which is preposterous. Nevertheless the left and their many social media drones have made that excuse into a cause celebre. The other and to me more credible reason is that the Irving owned papers did not like his slant on most things, and the third reason is that this was planned well in advance and they signed a different cartoonist, according to a news release from the papers in question over the weekend.

I don't doubt that the reasons why Brunswick News let de Adder go were multifactorial. He does have a radical leftist viewpoint (in general), but I find him very talented, and I don't find his social commentary too much for me to take, even if I sometimes disagree with him.

I think however that this cartoon might have been the "straw that broke the camels back" as far as the Irvings are concerned. Given the family's softwood lumber empire, I imagine they didn't want to imperil cross border trade by angering the unstable and unpredictable imperious leader of the Excited States. I therefore do believe that this particular cartoon was "the last straw"............

[Keith P.]

I think it far more likely that he was let go for criticism of the current NB provincial govt, where Premier Higgs is a former Irving exec and thus likely a favorite of the family. I believe that there are NB-exclusive cartoons done that are only seen in those papers. I can imagine those angering the owners much more than anything to do with Trump or the US refugee situation, which regardless of the Irvings sympathies towards the POTUS, are unlikely to evoke such a strong reaction. I am not as right-wing as the Irvings, but if I were them I would have told my editors to kibosh deAdder shortly after his stuff began appearing on my pages.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I think it far more likely that he was let go for criticism of the current NB provincial govt, where Premier Higgs is a former Irving exec and thus likely a favorite of the family. I believe that there are NB-exclusive cartoons done that are only seen in those papers. I can imagine those angering the owners much more than anything to do with Trump or the US refugee situation, which regardless of the Irvings sympathies towards the POTUS, are unlikely to evoke such a strong reaction. I am not as right-wing as the Irvings, but if I were them I would have told my editors to kibosh deAdder shortly after his stuff began appearing on my pages.

de Adder grew up in Moncton (Riverview) and knows NB well, and, yes, he does NB specific cartoons for all the Brunswick News newspapers. I imagine he has gotten under the skin of the Irvings many times, but I still think this particular cartoon was "the last straw'.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by elly63

Now LeBlanc may have brought some of this on himself with his self imposed unrealistically positive timelines but again this is going to take some time.

It's tricky because if they talked about more realistic timelines and all of the unknowns it would be hard for them to attract as much attention. Chances are if it happens it will take several years at a minimum. It's almost certainly not going to be half a year of planning followed by 1 year of stadium construction while the team plays somewhere else.

This dynamic is created by the media and all of the people who make these predictions, not just the CFL promoters. If you are realistic in how you present to the media they will spin things in a very negative direction and it will come off as unusually bad to the public.

The news media in the Maritimes seems particularly negative, often to the point where they stretch the facts or bring in completely extraneous details in order to make a good news story sound bad or mixed. I am not sure they're more accurate than what you'd get following some social media accounts.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's tricky because if they talked about more realistic timelines and all of the unknowns it would be hard for them to attract as much attention. Chances are if it happens it will take several years at a minimum. It's almost certainly not going to be half a year of planning followed by 1 year of stadium construction while the team plays somewhere else.

This dynamic is created by the media and all of the people who make these predictions, not just the CFL promoters. If you are realistic in how you present to the media they will spin things in a very negative direction and it will come off as unusually bad to the public.

The news media in the Maritimes seems particularly negative, often to the point where they stretch the facts or bring in completely extraneous details in order to make a good news story sound bad or mixed. I am not sure they're more accurate than what you'd get following some social media accounts.

Totally agree with most of your points. LeBlanc has to act as the salesman to keep interest up. I have to say though I think the Chronicle Herald and CTV Atlantic have been more than fair in their coverage, of course you'll see the haterz responding to an article in the comments section but from what I've seen and read from those two outlets, I think they are doing a credible job.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Surely a man of your vast experience would have learned by now not to believe what the local news media reports. A prime example is the matter of the political cartoonist DeAdder being released from the New Brunswick newspapers. There are 3 different stories making the rounds but the only one being bandied about by the press is the least credible of all, which is that he was let go because of a Trump cartoon, which is preposterous. Nevertheless the left and their many social media drones have made that excuse into a cause celebre. The other and to me more credible reason is that the Irving owned papers did not like his slant on most things, and the third reason is that this was planned well in advance and they signed a different cartoonist, according to a news release from the papers in question over the weekend.

Amazingly, nobody has stated what to me is the most credible reason at all - namely that he is a lousy cartoonist with a definite left-wing, dark and nasty side to his work. I had no use for him going way back to his Daily News years, though it is a profession in general which I find baffling as to its popularity among many. It strikes me as something which time has passed by.

Cartoonist set to replace de Adder quits, says he 'wouldn't wish this on anyone'

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Cartoonist set to replace de Adder quits, says he 'wouldn't wish this on anyone'

Another case of the social media mob besmirching and attacking someone regarding something for which they had no responsibility. DeAdder should be ashamed of how he cultivated this reaction.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by elly63

Totally agree with most of your points. LeBlanc has to act as the salesman to keep interest up. I have to say though I think the Chronicle Herald and CTV Atlantic have been more than fair in their coverage, of course you'll see the haterz responding to an article in the comments section but from what I've seen and read from those two outlets, I think they are doing a credible job.

To clarify, my last statement wasn't specifically connected to the stadium issue, and it varies a lot by media outlet. For example, the Herald can be slightly negative while the Halifax Examiner at the extreme end features constant negativity.

An example bad article: https://www.thestar.com/halifax/2019...ort-shows.html

Low on information with a negative slant added to what would normally be a positive trend. It contains factual errors, e.g. "For the first time since 2009, the number of Halifax residents in the workforce has jumped". The factual errors always seem to be in a negative direction. I remember when the Herald used to love saying things along the lines of "first development downtown in 20 years". A person who didn't know anything about Halifax and saw the headlines would assume that its economy is comparable to say Saint John or maybe Sydney.

This type of slant is really noticeable compared to Vancouver media. Vancouver is almost always presented as a boomtown in the local media, and when you go on transit you see ads about how many people will move here in the next 10 or 20 years and what needs to be built. This is a good thing. In Halifax there's very little "growth" mentality. But last year Halifax actually grew 1/3 faster than Vancouver, and with immigration policies being what they are there's no reason to believe this will change.

This has a direct impact on stuff like the stadium because groups like HRM council tend to think about maintaining infrastructure for a city of 300,000, not building new stuff for the city of 600,000 that will exist during the middle of the lifespan of any major project started today. Halifax's BRT study implicitly adopts a strategy of falling transit modal share, because the ridership projections are below the city's overall growth rate.

HRM council is also way too risk averse. Aside from the fact that zero or low risk in public finance is fictional, it's usually not optimal. Yet if you read the Herald and the like you'll see statements from HRM staff and councillors about how they want to de-risk everything or assume zero risk (impossible).

[elly63]

This tweet is dedicated to those (insert pejorative) that keep making the moronic argument that a CFL backed, new stadium is used only ten times a year.

[Keith P.]

I'm sure those organizations must pay big bucks. Wait, what?

[Djeffery]

The field at THF gets used a ton. The stands? Not so much. I think that's the point of the "10 times a year" comment, about actual money making opportunities.