DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[HighRanch]

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

I suppose that "historical", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Suffice to say that I think whatever historical value this "diner" has is outweighed by value of creating housing and density near the core of the city.

Is this really what we want to preserve as "Historical" in a city like Denver?
This must be the same people that insist on driving slow in the left lane....now trying the same tactic with development.

[JB1530]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

the developers for these huge density changing developments should concede more than just affordable housing. the residents getting displaced by density should have a fund set aside for them. not to mention the quality of life changes that occur when a bunch of tower cranes show up next door.

i have a small project of about nine new townhouses next to me being built and the noise and traffic with the construction trucks and all have been annoying. i couldn't imagine how i'd live with a five year mega block going next door. i hear saws buzzing as i type this and couldn't go outside yesterday for a good while because of the beeping of some sort from the site that wouldn't end. what if this were 50 times the scale? what would we as neighbors be able to do? we could never go outside ever again. forget about our plants and open windows with all of the construction dust flying around.

ya'll blast the "nimbys" not wanting to be live in giant construction zones, but honestly, why wouldn't they show up to speak when they know they're about to get a giant meteor dropped on their neighborhood with little given to them other than "affordable housing". the density game is a big scam. simply a redistribution of the land where the developers seem to get the greatest payoff. if this were truly responsible they'd be building a monorail or some shit from the development to union station. i'm guessing they won't be doing shit for transportation so everybody in these "affordable" units will be ubering around. sounds responsible indeed.

1. Who is being displaced exactly? It's a freaking parking lot. Next to another high-rise building, built in the 70s (I'd guess). This is far, far from an intact historical gem of a neighborhood.

2. You couldn't go outside because of beeping? Really? You've jumped the shark with this one - not really sure what to say about that.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by twister244

Very happy to see the stadium district plans going through..... That area would be perfect for TOD given the W line is right there. The article does a great job highlighting how this will blend into the River Mile to create a large swath of new neighborhoods. Also, given the edge of River Mile connects with Union Station and LoDo...... man what a city Denver would become......

I'm interested to see how busy the bike trail on the Platte becomes in the next 10 - 20 years. Also, it seems that stadium district retail would probably do pretty well with the high foot traffic.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by BG918

Noticed construction fencing up at both sides of 18th & Lafayette across from St Joseph, what is going up there?

Answering my own question when I drove by today there was a sign Alliance Broadstone. They just installed a luffing jib tower crane, one of several currently up around Denver.



https://denverinfill.com/blog/2018/1...ne-uptown.html

[DenvertoLA]

Question: Is it wise to develop both The River Mile and the Stadium District at the same time?

Wont all this land coming on the market at once cause the vision of a high density neighborhood to be missed?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

Question: Is it wise to develop both The River Mile and the Stadium District at the same time?

Wont all this land coming on the market at once cause the vision of a high density neighborhood to be missed?

They'll both take three decades; I wouldn't be too concerned.

Originally Posted by BG918

Answering my own question when I drove by today there was a sign Alliance Broadstone. They just installed a luffing jib tower crane, one of several currently up around Denver.

So it's now an official breaking of ground then.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by DenvertoLA

Question: Is it wise to develop both The River Mile and the Stadium District at the same time?

Wont all this land coming on the market at once cause the vision of a high density neighborhood to be missed?

I think that is a fair question. I think their response would be: 1). These are both multi-decade plans, 2). At least the a river mile project is divided into three phases, 3). They are mixed use neighborhoods, as opposed to solely residential

[corey]

I think it is a huge shame if Tom’s Diner (originally a White Spot designed by Armet and Davis) gets torn down, but I think at its location it is inevitable. I REALLY wish, and actually prefer, that it would be moved (sorry, but that stretch of Colfax is, always has been, and always will be a druggie invested armpit that I do my best not to have walk through any time of day, let alone at night). The developer will certainly say that it is too expensive or impossible to move the building, but money never seems to be an issue to them when there is something they want to do. I hate when people use the excuse that you don’t need to save any 50-60 year old buildings and that only 100+ year old buildings are important. Guess what? The 100+ year buildings were 50 years old at one point and we wouldn’t have them today if they were all torn down when they weren’t historic enough. Tom’s Diner is the best remaining googie diner in Denver and it will be a loss when it is gone. It wouldn’t be so bad if the building replacing it was exceptional, but it will be just another ugly, cheaply constructed pile of sh*t. I will say that Sam’s #3 on 15th Street is ABSOLUTELY worth saving no matter what someone wants to build there.

[jhwk]

Originally Posted by corey

I think it is a huge shame if Tom’s Diner (originally a White Spot designed by Armet and Davis) gets torn down, but I think at its location it is inevitable. I REALLY wish, and actually prefer, that it would be moved (sorry, but that stretch of Colfax is, always has been, and always will be a druggie invested armpit that I do my best not to have walk through any time of day, let alone at night). The developer will certainly say that it is too expensive or impossible to move the building, but money never seems to be an issue to them when there is something they want to do. I hate when people use the excuse that you don’t need to save any 50-60 year old buildings and that only 100+ year old buildings are important. Guess what? The 100+ year buildings were 50 years old at one point and we wouldn’t have them today if they were all torn down when they weren’t historic enough. Tom’s Diner is the best remaining googie diner in Denver and it will be a loss when it is gone. It wouldn’t be so bad if the building replacing it was exceptional, but it will be just another ugly, cheaply constructed pile of sh*t. I will say that Sam’s #3 on 15th Street is ABSOLUTELY worth saving no matter what someone wants to build there.

Based on a quick square footage estimate from Google Maps, a 12-story building (maximum with light gauge steel) on the parking lot would be about 20,000 sf less than an 8-story building on the the whole lot... how about a compromise - upzone to allow 12 stories on the parking lot, keep and landmark Tom's, and reduce the parking requirement so the developer can build one more floor of apartments rather than parking to make up for the reduced square footage.

Edit: Not an architect - if using a light guage steel or wood system within the code limits, how much is each additional vertical story compared to expanding horizontally? Enough to make this idea not feasible?

[corey]

^Yes, it would be absolutely awesome if they could build the apartment building around the diner. It could be amazing and the best possible solution. The resulting apartment building won’t just be another generic box like all the countless others around Denver and the country. The parking lot at Tom’s obviously isn’t the best use for land at that location.

[TakeFive]

Hot Takes

A Freeway Fight Launched Denver’s New Queer Latina Councilmember
JUN 17, 2019 By LAURA BLISS - CityLab

I won't quote from the article but being a Big fan of Laura Bliss the article is well written.

I'm also reminded that both Laura and Sachs used the - new to me - politically correct term of Latinx. For the curious you can Google the differences between Hispanic, Latino and Latinx. In any case I'm always delighted to be up-to-date on the latest politically correct terms.

Back to your regularly scheduled broadcast.

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by corey

I think it is a huge shame if Tom’s Diner (originally a White Spot designed by Armet and Davis) gets torn down, but I think at its location it is inevitable. I REALLY wish, and actually prefer, that it would be moved (sorry, but that stretch of Colfax is, always has been, and always will be a druggie invested armpit that I do my best not to have walk through any time of day, let alone at night). The developer will certainly say that it is too expensive or impossible to move the building, but money never seems to be an issue to them when there is something they want to do. I hate when people use the excuse that you don’t need to save any 50-60 year old buildings and that only 100+ year old buildings are important. Guess what? The 100+ year buildings were 50 years old at one point and we wouldn’t have them today if they were all torn down when they weren’t historic enough. Tom’s Diner is the best remaining googie diner in Denver and it will be a loss when it is gone. It wouldn’t be so bad if the building replacing it was exceptional, but it will be just another ugly, cheaply constructed pile of sh*t. I will say that Sam’s #3 on 15th Street is ABSOLUTELY worth saving no matter what someone wants to build there.

Meh -- that building just isn't congruent with good urban design. And it is located so close to transit -- that is exactly where we need more density.

I do think Toms contributes the vagrancy on that particular corner quite a bit -- both its design which doesnt really activate the street and the overall business itself which happily turns a blind eye to all the vagrancy, much of which is caused by its customers. I think activation with a good sized market rate or near-market rate apartment and ground floor retail would be great, and don't think the city would lose too much architecturally.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

Meh -- that building just isn't congruent with good urban design. And it is located so close to transit -- that is exactly where we need more density.

I do think Toms contributes the vagrancy on that particular corner quite a bit -- both its design which doesnt really activate the street and the overall business itself which happily turns a blind eye to all the vagrancy, much of which is caused by its customers. I think activation with a good sized market rate or near-market rate apartment and ground floor retail would be great, and don't think the city would lose too much architecturally.

Absolutely agree. Fact that place has been Diner for multiple decades doesn't make it worthy of preservation, IMHO. The building itself is a mess I think.

[TakeFive]

You may have seen this somewhere


Source

Presumably you'd agree it's not as nice as this:


Source

So what do these two renderings have in common?
They're both projects by Hines with equity funding provided by Chicago-based Cresset-Diversified QOZ Fund, that are intended to take advantage of opportunity zones and both reflect the sites where the opportunity existed. The 1st is in RiNo will be 392 units where the 2nd is in Houston with 373 units.

One of Denver's first big opportunity zone plays kicks off with a $155M project
Jun 19, 2019 By Andrew Dodson – Reporter, Denver Business Journal

One of the first big qualified opportunity zone plays in metro Denver is a 392-unit, high-end apartment building that’s being developed in the city’s River North Art District.

If all goes according to plan, investors can essentially kiss goodbye the federal and state taxes tied to the capital gains they earned in 2018 — about 23% — by investing those gains into the $155 million project, in addition to receiving low- to mid-double-digit returns a decade or more from now.

Avy Stein provides some background.

“RiNo looks like what Chicago’s West Loop looked like 15 years ago.”

Avy Stein, founder and co-chairman of Cresset, told Denver Business Journal that the parts of RiNo that fall into those designated districts are a “very big opportunity” for investors.

“What’s really interesting about it is that RiNo is this pre-planned, brand-new community where they’re taking what was formerly industrial and now you’re going to have a performing arts center, multifamily, office, entertainment,” he said.

Clearly Hines having already gone through the hoops required with the Houston project was in a position to move quickly in Denver.

[rds70]

The first building permit application for Kenect Denver has been submitted to the City.

[CherryCreek]

Pepsi has sold its massive RiNo parking lots to a development company:


Carmel Partners on Tuesday, June 18, closed on 3800 and 3900 N. Brighton Boulevard, two separate parking lots owned by PepsiCo (Nasdaq: PEP) across the street from its bottling plant, according to property records. 3800 N. Brighton Blvd. sold for $16.41 million; 3900 N. Brighton Blvd. sold for $19.78 million. The combined deal works out to $220 per square foot.


https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...lots-sold.html

This is yet anther "Opportunity Zone" deal, per DBJ. Site has potential to go up to 16 stories.

All of the RiNO developments definitely have potential to sap some of the growth of legacy downtown, including Tabor 2.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by rds70

The first building permit application for Kenect Denver has been submitted to the City.

Awesome!

IIRC they changed their design somewhat with the last submittal. In any case it looks great to me.

I was slightly concerned when they were able to get efficient approval from Phoenix and quickly moved to groundbreaking that it might affect their timetable for Denver so this submittal is meaningful. As of 3 weeks ago Kenect Phoenix is out of the ground and the core was up 4 stories. I assume that Ankara prefers a staggered construction timeline but at least they're now moving ahead in Denver.

[Ich]

https://www.cpr.org/news/story/rtd-e...racks-projects

Pretty cool article about RTD and finishing the light rail. If I understood it correctly, if we were to approve a .1% sale and use tax hike we could have it all finished by 2040 which I would totally support. Also got me thinking that if Denver were to pass a 1% sales tax or an increase in the income tax couldn’t that fund a wide scale street car system?

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by rds70

the first building permit application for kenect denver has been submitted to the city.

yooooooo!!

[DenvertoLA]

Originally Posted by rds70

The first building permit application for Kenect Denver has been submitted to the City.

FINALLY! I was holding out on this one. great news