Phoenix Area Low- and Mid-Rise Development Thread

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by Classical in Phoenix

https://www.facebook.com/events/2629038880504046/?ti=cl

There is a public meeting tonight on Toll Brothers proposal to build a 4 story, gated apartment community on the NWC of Central and Indian School.

I’m not one to complain about any development but that looks like way to much surface parking for the area. I guess with the cost of construction they are trying so go cheap and might not need more that 400 apartment units for the price of the land.

[combusean]

Alta Thomas and Alta Fillmore are both 4 stories with surface parking. Nobody really batted an eye about those.

This is more or less the same density as the garage-parked Station on the other side.

The big problem with these big sites that lack the street access the downtown blocks have is that they're too big and need fire lanes. Once you go down that rabbit hole it's hard to cost-effectively use the space.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by combusean

Alta Thomas and Alta Fillmore are both 4 stories with surface parking. Nobody really batted an eye about those.

This is more or less the same density as the garage-parked Station on the other side.

The big problem with these big sites that lack the street access the downtown blocks have is that they're too big and need fire lanes. Once you go down that rabbit hole it's hard to cost-effectively use the space.

True on the Alta's...BUT...those were pretty much designed and started build around the beginning of this cycle. Pretty much everything since then has had a podium or garage included, some of which have nearly as large of a footprint (i.e. Parc Midtown is 315,864 sq ft compared to 356,905 for the proposed Toll Brothers lot). I just would rather see less blacktop in the core when it comes to these developments. Not too mention, this does not address the street at all and is essentially a gated complex. I just feel it could be better.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

True on the Alta's...BUT...those were pretty much designed and started build around the beginning of this cycle.

Wood Partners have been savvy about being an early mover into markets where they've been able to buy cheap ground to build their cookie cutter Alta product. At least the quality is solid.

I agree with you though and even Wood Partners has come back into Denver and secured a mid-town type site where they plan to build 12 & 15 story apartments so maybe they ran out of cheap land to buy and are changing their strategy?

[azsunsurfer]

The fencing for "Alta Warehouse" has gone up. Looks like they are going to be moving on this soon?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

The fencing for "Alta Warehouse" has gone up. Looks like they are going to be moving on this soon?

Alta would really need to discount those rents for me to live on that side of downtown. Its in an opportunity zone so it may be that that area will total transform in the 20's but its a LONG road ahead for south of the tracks

[ASUSunDevil]

^ agree. They should value engineer the residential until it's safe at night. The adaptive reuse/office projects were a great start, but they need some reasonable priced units to attract young people - ones that are looking at Roosevelt Row, but can't afford it yet.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Alta would really need to discount those rents for me to live on that side of downtown. Its in an opportunity zone so it may be that that area will total transform in the 20's but its a LONG road ahead for south of the tracks

Don't worry about that. A friend who developed the Galvanize/The Larry building and owns a ton of real estate in that area has a number of things in the pipe. You won't be disappointed and while the road is long it's not as long as you think.

There will be some projects on the east side of 7th as well.

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Don't worry about that. A friend who developed the Galvanize/The Larry building and owns a ton of real estate in that area has a number of things in the pipe. You won't be disappointed and while the road is long it's not as long as you think.

He has big juevos. Great to hear that, though

[biggus diggus]

Hard to be successful when you won't take risks.

[combusean]

Is the 7th Ave bridge shadow there still a homeless encampment? How's that area look overall? I haven't been there in like 12 years (no reason to) but I have zero reason to expect it's improved at all.

At the end of the day Phoenix is not like SF where it can put market rate on its Skid Row. This warehouse development is surface parked like all the other perimeter developments Alta moves on so that will certainly help with affordability.

[combusean]

Is the 7th Ave bridge shadow there still a homeless encampment? How's that area look overall? I haven't been there in like 12 years (no reason to) but I have zero reason to expect it's improved at all.

At the end of the day Phoenix is not like SF where it can put market rate on its Skid Row. This warehouse development is surface parked like all the other perimeter developments Alta moves on so that will certainly help with affordability.

[biggus diggus]

It has improved quite a bit, not like it's unrecognizable or anything but Mike and a couple other players have put a lot of money into the area and will continue to do so. Ten years from now it'll be a work/play atmosphere.

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Hard to be successful when you won't take risks.

Writing down now thx

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

Writing down now thx

Don't forget to put HARD down in all caps. Emphasis is key.

[CrestedSaguaro]

They are putting up the tower crane at Central and Columbus. Oddly, this is the same style of crane they are using for Kenect (weighted down by concrete slabs).

[Obadno]

The Low income housing at 17th ave and Camelback appears to have broken ground.

[biggus diggus]

low income housing been breaking ground at 17th and Camelback for the past 60 years.

Jokes aside I'm amazed how expensive houses are between 15th and 7th north of camelback, mind-boggling that people are paying upwards of $400K to live at 15th and Colter.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

low income housing been breaking ground at 17th and Camelback for the past 60 years.

Jokes aside I'm amazed how expensive houses are between 15th and 7th north of camelback, mind-boggling that people are paying upwards of $400K to live at 15th and Colter.

It remains to be seen how much gentrification will fill in the area between Thomas and Northern. The nicer neighborhoods are creeping ever more toward the west.

I personally think most everything in between the 17 and 51 including sunny-slope will fully gentrify over time.

eventually the lower income parts of Camelback east will gentrify too, all the way to the 202 maybe even the area north of the airport but thats hard to imagine.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

low income housing been breaking ground at 17th and Camelback for the past 60 years.

Jokes aside I'm amazed how expensive houses are between 15th and 7th north of camelback, mind-boggling that people are paying upwards of $400K to live at 15th and Colter.

That's not even in the coveted Madison School District which was for years one of the only bright spots holding that area together. Wow. Perhaps Osborn got gentrified too...