HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #281  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 4:56 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Austin -> San Antonio -> Columbia -> San Antonio -> Chicago -> Austin -> Denver
Posts: 5,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanadvocate View Post
I said "maybe" Texas since Texas is the only state comparable to California in regards to so many large and diverse metros.
Is it?

States with 3 or more MSAs over 1 mil

California: 6
LA, Inland Empire, SF, SD, Sac, SJ (plus Fresno soon enough) I

Texas: 4
D/FW, Houston, ATX, SATX

Florida: 4
South Florida (Miami, West Palm, Ft Lauderdale), Tampa/St.Pete, Orlando, Jax

Ohio: 3
Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati

New York: 3
NYC, Buffalo, Rochester

————

Side note: the only state with a reasonable possibility with current growth rates to be added to the above list over the medium term is, oddly, South Carolina, a state that currently has zero metros over 1 mil.
__________________
HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #282  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 5:39 AM
urbanadvocate urbanadvocate is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Is it?

States with 3 or more MSAs over 1 mil

California: 6
LA, Inland Empire, SF, SD, Sac, SJ (plus Fresno soon enough) I

Texas: 4
D/FW, Houston, ATX, SATX

Florida: 4
South Florida (Miami, West Palm, Ft Lauderdale), Tampa/St.Pete, Orlando, Jax

Ohio: 3
Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati

New York: 3
NYC, Buffalo, Rochester

————

Side note: the only state with a reasonable possibility with current growth rates to be added to the above list over the medium term is, oddly, South Carolina, a state that currently has zero metros over 1 mil.

You certainly make an interesting point but for NY I don't consider Buffalo or Rochester as large metros by any metric and for Ohio none of those metros, although great in their own right, compare to the largest metros in Texas and Cali. Now Florida is an interesting case since South Florida is a large world class metro and Orlando has completely boomed recently. Granted some of this is personal opinion on my end, i openly acknowledge that.

Anyhow, depending on how you measure it, Sac would be a clear #2 in NY, a close #2 or #3 in Ohio and frankly not that far behind Cleveland for #1, a #3 or #4 in Florida but not by much and a close #4 behind Austin in Texas. But in Cali it is a pretty distant #4--I guess that is the point I was trying to make.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #283  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 5:57 AM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,485
I still don't understand why Austin, TX is considered such a "cool/unique/hip" city. It is not any of those things. It's pretty mediocre truthfully.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #284  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 6:03 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston/Galveston
Posts: 1,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Is it?

States with 3 or more MSAs over 1 mil

California: 6
LA, Inland Empire, SF, SD, Sac, SJ (plus Fresno soon enough) I

Texas: 4
D/FW, Houston, ATX, SATX

Florida: 4
South Florida (Miami, West Palm, Ft Lauderdale), Tampa/St.Pete, Orlando, Jax

Ohio: 3
Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati

New York: 3
NYC, Buffalo, Rochester

————

Side note: the only state with a reasonable possibility with current growth rates to be added to the above list over the medium term is, oddly, South Carolina, a state that currently has zero metros over 1 mil.
So in other words, California has 4 and probably 5 in the future. Damn the Census Bureau and its gerrymandering when it comes to MSA's.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #285  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 6:10 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston/Galveston
Posts: 1,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I still don't understand why Austin, TX is considered such a "cool/unique/hip" city. It is not any of those things. It's pretty mediocre truthfully.
Austin can be overrated like a great number of places (**cough** New Orleans **Sneeze** Miami) but it is still a cool and hip place. Having a major university and continually attracting progressive people has a way of doing that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #286  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 8:13 AM
JAYNYC JAYNYC is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I still don't understand why Austin, TX is considered such a "cool/unique/hip" city. It is not any of those things. It's pretty mediocre truthfully.
What city(ies) do you consider to be "cool/unique/hip"?

And spare me with nyc, la, sf, chi.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #287  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 12:32 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 67,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Perhaps the answer does lie in the quotation marks, but obviously that didn't help me find it. If you're his interpreter, perhaps you could provide some additional detail for those of us slower on the uptake?
"Slower on the uptake" or deliberately obtuse and aggressive?

It was plainly obvious he or she was referring to social conventions, and his use of quotation marks made it clear it wasn't necessarily his view of "normal", but rather what society often deems to be "normal".

Intelligent people should not need an ''interpreter" to figure that out.
__________________
Amber alerts welcome at any time
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #288  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 3:59 PM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
Volatile Pacivist
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 9,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
That one group represents a massive chunk of America, that's an important point to make. Yep, normal to me would be a huge portion of the American population that cities do not have in any meaningful portions.

I don't know what the percentages are. I do know cities like Chicago(soley based on looking at income maps from like the 1970s-2010s) used to have massives sections of their cities where middle-class families thrived. Today Chicago, along with most large sought after cities, are comprised the wealthy, the poor, and young people who are either in college or just got their first job etc.. So basically you have the extremes of those who are "haves" and those that are "havenots." I don't like that. I want families who make 50-70k a year to not only be able to afford a house in a good city neighborhood, but also feel comfortable sending their kids to local schools.

Our cities would change radically if just 10% of families who end up in the burbs go or stay in the city.
Thanks, that's definitely clearer and I would probably have to agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
"Slower on the uptake" or deliberately obtuse and aggressive?

It was plainly obvious he or she was referring to social conventions, and his use of quotation marks made it clear it wasn't necessarily his view of "normal", but rather what society often deems to be "normal".

Intelligent people should not need an ''interpreter" to figure that out.
The only thing that's aggressive is making unwarranted accusations about people's intent.

The purpose of quotation marks is to quote someone else's statement (hence the same). But they're often also used by people to avoid ownership/responsibility for statements that they're making without actually attributing the statement to anyone else (similar to weasel words like some say). I don't have a huge issue with that but if they're not quoting someone else I simply attribute the statement to the person saying it and ask them to clarify if there's anything unclear to me.

Much like his original statement, my question was also no big deal. I agree that he was probably using the term based on common language (or social conventions as you put it) but there's no reason the meaning of such language should simply be assumed or accepted without question if one doubts its accuracy or clarity. Common usages and conventions sometimes have issues with accuracy, and common doesn't mean universal. Someone may be reading it the same as you but want to take due diligence to ensure their reading is correct before challenging or criticizing it, and other times something that's obvious to you might not be obvious to others - whether because of differences in intelligence, culture, communication styles, or vernacular.

I recommend that if you encounter someone asking a question that you feel should be obvious, either give the benefit of the doubt and provide a helpful answer, or simply ignore it. Accusing them of malice isn't a useful response.

ps. I am definitely obtuse, but it isn't deliberate. It's just my personality.
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Don't ask people not to debate a topic. Just stop making debatable assertions. Problem solved.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #289  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 6:32 PM
azliam azliam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I still don't understand why Austin, TX is considered such a "cool/unique/hip" city. It is not any of those things. It's pretty mediocre truthfully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
Austin can be overrated like a great number of places (**cough** New Orleans **Sneeze** Miami) but it is still a cool and hip place. Having a major university and continually attracting progressive people has a way of doing that.
To each their own. Austin's always been a little "quirky" -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYb...CdXTyqMFSBytXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-2yN1uLzfA

Having said that, some people like to talk trash about TX and it being backwards, but I remember a completely different TX in the 80's and 90's. Depending upon the year, I either lived in or frequently visited Dallas, Houston, and Austin. In regards to Austin, I can only speak to my personal experiences and memories of having lived there and in Central TX during the late 80's-early 90's. Just a snapshot in time, but Austin was a pretty progressive little city back then. When I moved to AZ in late 92, I used to rave about how much fun Austin was and how much of a hip underrated city it was. I've made life-long friends from my time spent there.

Austin's always been a music festival gathering place whether AquaFest, SXSW, or ACL, but the ever-changing dynamic of the clubs and venues has also been a staple. It's sometimes difficult to pinpoint one particular thing that I thought made Austin cool and hip, but IMO, music definitely played a part in it (I'm sure XTC did as well) and brought people together (interesting read: https://www.austinchronicle.com/music/2000-06-09/77529/) This during the earlier years of SXSW, pre-and-infancy rave years, and before people could connect via the internet, social media and dating apps. I was in the military at Fort Hood when I first started venturing down to Austin. People loved to party in Austin and many of my military friends and I would party there almost every weekend. The music at the clubs was phenomenal and there were so many clubs, live venues and gay clubs establishments where everyone mixed it up. I usually stuck to the clubs where people socialized, danced, and expressed themselves. Austin never shied away from the bizarre or cutting edge. While some frequented the live venues to discover new musical acts in their infancy, others ventured to the clubs in order to hear what types of different music was out there. It was easy to see earlier alternative bands like New Order, Book of Love, Anything Box, Front 242, Nine Inch Nails, Siouxsie & the Banshees, Erasure, etc. play at club venues. The club music was best described as a combo of anything from New Wave/Electronic/Synthpop, Acid House/New Beat, Industrial, Techno/Ambient Techno, Downtempo, Early Rave, House, Italo/Disco, Freestyle, Goth, and early Trance.

In many ways, Austin's club music scene was an extension of the popularity of music that sometimes started play in the clubs in Europe, LA, NY, as well as Dallas (like Starck) and Houston (Club 6400 and its many clones) which leaned very alternative dance during that period in time. Of course the difference between Dallas and Houston vs. Austin was that while the clubs were more spread out in the former metros, they were more confined to downtown and adjacent to UT resulting in a more walkable downtown Austin. There is still a subculture that remains in Austin that remembers and appreciates the memories of past Austin and reunion nights are held for some of the long-departed nightclubs of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDu1...W_b2ONac60cUsg
https://www.mixcloud.com/peterhale58...IblBz81309yMTQ - just found this one - didn't realize I was in the pic

Unfortunately, there aren't as many Austin radio or club music recordings, but the Houston ones give you an idea of what was popular in Austin and just one of the reasons why people loved to party there:

https://www.mixcloud.com/gustavoarre...bdHH2IDyaU1nRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUJw6_N0poA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkRUV6ZjatQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GaNWI3opbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1dm-e6hc-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp2ihp4O27Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhNDwRpmlWc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAmyD4VvE1s
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #290  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 6:40 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is online now
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston/ SF Bay Area
Posts: 37,785
Austin is far from overrated. No, it's not San Francisco (thank god) but it has a very laid back and progressive vibe and continues attract that mindset making it even more so. Sure, the traffic sucks, they lack viable mass transit and it's not the ideal density but there's more to a city than the superficial. I've been all over the country and around the world and still find it among my favorite spots.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #291  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 8:04 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,586
Austin let me down. When it heard it was "weird" I was expecting like really weird artsy madness like you get in pacific cities but it was way more country than I was expecting.

Maybe its weird for Texas but I think I've seen stranger people in Salt Lake City than Austin

Cool town though
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #292  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 8:35 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
cle/west village/shaolin
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Austin let me down. When it heard it was "weird" I was expecting like really weird artsy madness like you get in pacific cities but it was way more country than I was expecting.

Maybe its weird for Texas but I think I've seen stranger people in Salt Lake City than Austin

Cool town though

agreed, except it was true though. austin used to be that like 20-25yrs ago before it boomed. ditto for its northern twin columbus. both lost the laidback hippy vibes and the oddball street characters to development. of course reality on the ground moves at a much faster pace than reputations.

the pac coasts retain more quirks in some neighborhoods because they resist developments while the austins/columbuses/nashvilles, etc. cant embrace redevelopment enough.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #293  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 8:45 PM
pj3000's Avatar
pj3000 pj3000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pittsburgh & Miami
Posts: 7,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I still don't understand why Austin, TX is considered such a "cool/unique/hip" city. It is not any of those things. It's pretty mediocre truthfully.
I think a lot of it is due to Texas' most prominent cities Houston and Dallas being perceived as the total opposite of "cool/unique/hip". They long had reputations of being stodgy/generic/conservative places. Long mocked for their "high hair/fake cowboy/Big Texas" reputations.

Austin was always the edgy antidote to the silliness of its in-state big brothers. I think that's changed a bit though, as Houston and Dallas have attracted so many people from all over, thus helping to up their own cool factors... while Austin has become much more "corporate" over the past two decades (becoming more and more like Houston and Dallas in ways).

I would say Austin is definitely better than mediocre. It's still the coolest big city in Texas, but the bar for "cool cities" was never too high in Texas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
Austin can be overrated like a great number of places (**cough** New Orleans **Sneeze** Miami) but it is still a cool and hip place. Having a major university and continually attracting progressive people has a way of doing that.
I feel bad for you if you've come away from time spent in New Orleans or Miami with feelings of them being overrated. You definitely missed out on some things there. Or, maybe my interests as a young man may have been quite different than yours
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #294  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2019, 11:29 PM
Omaharocks Omaharocks is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 712
Yeah, I don't get the "Austin is overhyped" argument either.

Perhaps because I've known it so well for so many years, with family members graduating from UT, and seeing so much live music, experiencing so many summer swimming holes, eating so many breakfast tacos...

I think to a certain extent, the aesthetic of Austin has become copied and reinterpreted in so many places across the U.S., that people don't realize it was fashioned in Austin back in the 80's/early 90's. And so Austin does appear to be as unique to visitors.

But it's a hell of a vibrant place, in a different way than New Orleans or Portland.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #295  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 12:05 AM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 67,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Thanks, that's definitely clearer and I would probably have to agree.



The only thing that's aggressive is making unwarranted accusations about people's intent.

The purpose of quotation marks is to quote someone else's statement (hence the same). But they're often also used by people to avoid ownership/responsibility for statements that they're making without actually attributing the statement to anyone else (similar to weasel words like some say). I don't have a huge issue with that but if they're not quoting someone else I simply attribute the statement to the person saying it and ask them to clarify if there's anything unclear to me.

Much like his original statement, my question was also no big deal. I agree that he was probably using the term based on common language (or social conventions as you put it) but there's no reason the meaning of such language should simply be assumed or accepted without question if one doubts its accuracy or clarity. Common usages and conventions sometimes have issues with accuracy, and common doesn't mean universal. Someone may be reading it the same as you but want to take due diligence to ensure their reading is correct before challenging or criticizing it, and other times something that's obvious to you might not be obvious to others - whether because of differences in intelligence, culture, communication styles, or vernacular.

I recommend that if you encounter someone asking a question that you feel should be obvious, either give the benefit of the doubt and provide a helpful answer, or simply ignore it. Accusing them of malice isn't a useful response.

ps. I am definitely obtuse, but it isn't deliberate. It's just my personality.
It still was not that obscure.
__________________
Amber alerts welcome at any time
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #296  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 1:55 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,144
A couple of thoughts...

I found Austin to be overrated. Doesn't mean I don't love it, but its reputation is better than reality. Outside of the immediate central core, it looks like any other Texas city(for better or worse). Watching House Hunters I am blown away by what standard ranches are selling for in the city. The traffic was horrible and I am not into the "scene" going on in most of the city.

Still love the city and think its skyline growth is awesome(I left in 2013). I just think it is overrated. If "America" somehow all voted and gave it a 9.5 or whatever...I would take it down to like a 7.8-8.

New Orleans overrated? In what way?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #297  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 11:18 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
New Orleans overrated? In what way?
I don't think New Orleans is "overrated" but I do find it a bit surprising how much the city is beloved. Incredible charm, but it seems the entire city center is kind of a transient Vegas-Orlando environment, given over to tourists and conventioneers, with few locals these days, and the city often appears third world-esque outside of a few square miles. It's also surprisingly expensive. Still really like visiting, though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #298  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 12:01 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is online now
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston/ SF Bay Area
Posts: 37,785
Bourbon St. and the city when there's a convention or game going on, otherwise the Quarter isn't that cheesy. Royal, just one block south of Bourbon is night and day and much quieter and has more cafes and galleries. More my speed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #299  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 12:04 PM
dc_denizen's Avatar
dc_denizen dc_denizen is offline
Selfie-stick vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York Suburbs
Posts: 10,999
Gawd, how horrible that a city might have tourists and conventioneers. How inauthentic
__________________
Joined the bus on the 33rd seat
By the doo-doo room with the reek replete
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #300  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 12:25 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
Gawd, how horrible that a city might have tourists and conventioneers. How inauthentic
It's not that NOLA has tourists/conventioneers, it's that it seems to only have tourists/conventioneers, at least in the FC, downtown, and Garden District. To me, that's an important difference. If you visit Commanders Palace, how many folks are locals?

It's why SoHo feels like a "real neighborhood" while Times Square doesn't, even though they're both flooded with tourists. The former has locals, and it's easy to get away from tourists; the latter essentially functions strictly for tourists.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:15 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.