Great Lakes Cities

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

And to this day there is still a continuous navigable water route for ships from Quebec City all the way down to new orleans, straight through the heart of the continent. You can't do that on most continents; It's kind of a cool thing.

It makes me wonder if it's a thing where people will take their pleasure crafts and do the entire voyage as a trip. I'm sure some have.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Razor

It makes me wonder if it's a thing where people will take their pleasure crafts and do the entire voyage as a trip. I'm sure some have.

Yes lookup great loop.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Yes lookup great loop.

Ya..I just did..Cool!

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Razor

Ya..I just did..Cool!

that would be a cool thing to do if you had time. like i would want to stop and hang out here and there along the way. i'm sure there are speed records tho.

[suburbanite]

Do the trips have to be chartered for at least part of the way? I can't imagine they just spontaneously operate some of the larger locks on the St. Lawrence or Welland Canal for any pleasure craft that comes by.

I've been through a couple locks on the Trent-Severn waterway, but by far the coolest is the one at big chute where the boats are carried over the rocky outcrops.


from: https://www.travelblog.org/Photos/6480368

• Video Link

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Do the trips have to be chartered for at least part of the way? I can't imagine they just spontaneously operate some of the larger locks on the St. Lawrence or Welland Canal for any pleasure craft that comes by.

the locks on the seaway/welland canal have specific schedules for when pleasure craft are allowed through, and each lock has a toll of $30 for pleasure craft up to 300 tons (beyond that you're paying commercial rates which are considerably higher), so the costs would certainly start to add up. but anyone doing such a trip probably has enough disposable cash and time to not worry too much about such trivial details.

i would imagine similar such rules would apply to the numerous locks along the chicago - new orleans river route as well.

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I've been through a couple locks on the Trent-Severn waterway, but by far the coolest is the one at big chute where the boats are carried over the rocky outcrops.


from: https://www.travelblog.org/Photos/6480368

well that's something you don't see everyday. cool!

looking into, it's apparently the only operating marine railway in north america.

[suburbanite]

Makes sense that it's the last one left. I think the only reason it's there is because of the drastic height differential over a short distance that would have made a single lock unfeasible. I can't imagine they're efficient to operate, but at this point it's a tourist attraction in itself and it's located at the gateway to Muskoka. There's always steady traffic of large expensive boats with people willing to pay.

[mrnyc]

whats really going to get you cost-wise on a long trip like that is that dockside fuel is more expensive than auto fuel and also boats burn more than cars to get you around.

basically, boats are a money pit.

but if you have the time and money ... i'd love to do that kind of trip.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

whats really going to get you cost-wise on a long trip like that is that dockside fuel is more expensive than auto fuel and also boats burn more than cars to get you around.

basically, boats are a money pit.

but if you have the time and money ... i'd love to do that kind of trip.

Someone should mount a 360 camera on their boat while they do this so we can stream and pretend

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

whats really going to get you cost-wise on a long trip like that is that dockside fuel is more expensive than auto fuel and also boats burn more than cars to get you around.

yeah, boat fuel is ridiculous. a cabin cruiser style motor boat will suck down around 20 gallons/hour when cruising.

i remember one time years ago being on my friend's boat when we had to swing by the fuel dock for a fill-up.

my jaw hit the floor of his boat when the total for the fill-up came to $600!!!

if i ever become wealthy enough to own a boat, it will definitely be a sailboat - for economic, environmental, and romantic reasons.

[suburbanite]

It's well understood that boat stands for "Bust Out Another Thousand"

[PFloyd]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Do the trips have to be chartered for at least part of the way? I can't imagine they just spontaneously operate some of the larger locks on the St. Lawrence or Welland Canal for any pleasure craft that comes by.

I've been through a couple locks on the Trent-Severn waterway, but by far the coolest is the one at big chute where the boats are carried over the rocky outcrops.


from: https://www.travelblog.org/Photos/6480368

• Video Link

Agreed!

I own a Cottage a couple minutes from Big Chute. Yes, Lock 44 is very popular, and there is quite a bit of boating traffic through it during the boating season.

I have never done the trip, but I understand that it would takes a few days to navigate the Trent-Severn Waterway from Trenton, in Lake Ontario (Lock 1) to Port Severn in Georgian Bay (Lock 45), depending on itinerary and speed.

I love Muskoka and Ontario Cottage Country. One of the great things about living in Toronto, is that you can be in less than two hours in this incredible wilderness of boreal forests and pristine lakes. It actually is mind boggling to see how many lakes and waterfront properties there are in Ontario Cottage Country. Love it.

[galleyfox]

I think some of these facilities remain because Federal laws require cities to maintain these maritime ROWs. It drove Chicago ballistic for decades that ships could request passage through the Chicago River at any time and risk the bridges getting stuck in rush hour. It wasn't until the late 90's when the Coast Guard granted an exemption and moved Chicago to scheduled passages and hefty fees outside of the scheduled raises.

So you get stories of Chicago commuters and pedestrians jumping across drawbridge gaps well into the 70's.

http://www.connectingthewindycity.co...in-june-1.html

[Steely Dan]

^ the boat nerd in me wishes that we still saw massive lake freighters snake their way through the chicago river from time to time.


source: http://www.connectingthewindycity.co...in-june-1.html

[PFloyd]

Google streetview made it to the Trent-Severn Waterway a few years ago. I guess they used a 'Google Streetview Boat' instead:
All these are between Lock 43 Swift Rapids and Lock 44 Big Chute.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.86845...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.86166...7i13312!8i6656

In this one you can see the famous boat-access-only Waubic Restaurant:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.86988...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.88420...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.89605...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.89003...7i13312!8i6656

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ the boat nerd in me wishes that we still saw massive lake freighters snake their way through the chicago river from time to time.


source: http://www.connectingthewindycity.co...in-june-1.html

^ boatnerd sez that built in 1906 that one was the oldest operating carrier ship on the great lakes. it was only retired and turned into a barge in 2013!

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by lio45

Sure, but it had been the capital for nearly half a century already at this point.

The most recent census (a few years before it became the capital of the entire colony) it had a population of 7,760 people and was pretty strictly a lumber town only. Now, at the time, it was booming, but a lumber city in the late 20th century up to 2020 and counting, that wouldn't be the case anymore. Which is why I think Shawi is a good comparable IMO. It also boomed for a while. But it's not the capital of anything, let alone the country, so...

Also, FWIW, one argument from Queen Victoria herself in favor of Ottawa as capital was that this remote lumber town was so small that the risk of having a mob torch the Parliament again was greatly reduced; I don't think it's debatable that Pre-Capital Ottawa ever was anything other than a small town where the main industry by far was lumber.

The lumber boom occurred during the same period as it became capital. The lumber boom lasted from around 1860 to 1920. This is before the great expansion of the federal presence that really got going in World War II. I think you overestimate the federal presence during the early post-Confederation period.

Also, without the federal presence the city would have been forced to diversify and modernize. I have no doubt that the city would have been much smaller but Canadian cities tended not to shrink during a post boom period. They tended to stagnate.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The lumber boom occurred during the same period as it became capital. The lumber boom lasted from around 1860 to 1920. This is before the great expansion of the federal presence that really got going in World War II. I think you overestimate the federal presence during the early post-Confederation period.

Also, without the federal presence the city would have been forced to diversify and modernize. I have no doubt that the city would have been much smaller but Canadian cities tended not to shrink during a post boom period. They tended to stagnate.

Another interesting question under a scenario where Ottawa is not the capital, is whether the population would be more evenly distributed between the Ontario and Quebec sides of the Ottawa River, or even if the Quebec side would have more population.

In the early decades of this era's settlement, for a fairly long time there was more population on the Quebec side of the Ottawa River, but this changed around the middle of the 1800s.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

^ boatnerd sez that built in 1906 that one was the oldest operating carrier ship on the great lakes. it was only retired and turned into a barge in 2013!

yeah, she had a 107 year career as a commercial cargo steamship on the lakes.

and to this day her hull is still floating along as an integrated tug & barge.

that really speaks to how much less corrosive fresh water is compared to salt water.

[jtown,man]

My former boss retired last year and bought a decent sized boat. He showed me all the maps and points he wanted to visit doing the trip you guys are talking about. From his facebook, it looks like hes been testing his skills/craft by taking progressively longer trips. Hope he makes it one day. Boat people love that shit.