HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Arts, Culture, Dining, Recreation & Entertainment


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #361  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2009, 2:15 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Halifax
Posts: 595
I think the "multi-purpose" point is crucial. I don't mean to be negative, but I have a difficult time imagining how a stadium that only hosts 10 games a year could NOT end up being a "white elephant". It would have to be something that could serve the community and have multiple uses. I think Windsor Park is more than big enough if you could use the entire area. DND would have to sell out. But Shannon Park works too.
     
     
  #362  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2009, 2:19 PM
Empire's Avatar
Empire Empire is offline
Salty Town
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
I absolutely believe 25K seats could be built into a Huskies Refurb. Look back to the comparative photo with Molson I posted. Each are at 50M resolution for side by side analysis. Like I said, it would involve a fairly extensive renovation to the Tower fitness facility and the rink, but assuming this happens, there is even more room at SMU than McGill.



I don't assert that other than SMU a stadium has to be in the suburbs. Just that it likely will be in the suburbs. By "multi-purpose park" I an implying that If a CFL owners group comes forth and makes a serious proposal, that group will want a facility that includes not only a main stadium with X number of permanent seats but also room for X number of temporary seats, a team fieldhouse and offices, a practice field and parking for X number of cars. I haven't seen a site on the peninsula yet that would accommodate all this, even the Windsor Park area. It really does take a lot of space. It would be a much easier road politically for an owner's group to look to the suburbs. The path of least resistance as they say.
Personally I'd prefer to see a peninsular facility. It would be unique and in keeping with the tradition and scale of Halifax, and I think the viable (albeit still unlikely) option is having SMU onboard with a CFL group.
Beyond the peninsula, my favorite alternative is Shannon Park. Anywhere else (DC, Bayer's Lake, Eastern Passage, Hammonds Plains, Sackville, Enfeild...) would be a distant and uninteresting location that would make Halifax like most other bland mid-sized North American city. A Wal-Mart stadium.
SMU could also serve as an athlete’s village. High Rise II is a 20 storey dorm. In the summer most of the rooms are empty and could host a lot of athletes. High Rise I is apartments and could no doubt be made available for media coaches/families etc. The area where the stands are now could be much higher and wrap around on the north end. (~ 15,000 seats?) The area in front of the Low Rise (female residence) south side and the east side could have one permanent tier and then expandable for big games.
__________________
Salty Town
     
     
  #363  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2009, 3:07 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
I think the "multi-purpose" point is crucial. I don't mean to be negative, but I have a difficult time imagining how a stadium that only hosts 10 games a year could NOT end up being a "white elephant". It would have to be something that could serve the community and have multiple uses. I think Windsor Park is more than big enough if you could use the entire area. DND would have to sell out. But Shannon Park works too.
I took a look at Windsor Park again, initially thinking it was too long and narrow (assuming the superstore and car lots stay put. But on second glance, there is a good wide area at the north end of the site, and the narrower portion could handle auxiliary buildings and parking. I now agree this could also be a possibility.
     
     
  #364  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2009, 3:48 PM
kwajo's Avatar
kwajo kwajo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Uptown, Saint John
Posts: 1,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
I think the "multi-purpose" point is crucial. I don't mean to be negative, but I have a difficult time imagining how a stadium that only hosts 10 games a year could NOT end up being a "white elephant". It would have to be something that could serve the community and have multiple uses. I think Windsor Park is more than big enough if you could use the entire area. DND would have to sell out. But Shannon Park works too.
I agree, the stadium has to be a multi-use facility that serves the community, otherwise I have a hard time believing that any level of government should pay a significant portion of the construction costs for a building designed to help a private enterprise (ie. CFL team).
     
     
  #365  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2009, 9:12 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
I think the "multi-purpose" point is crucial. I don't mean to be negative, but I have a difficult time imagining how a stadium that only hosts 10 games a year could NOT end up being a "white elephant". It would have to be something that could serve the community and have multiple uses. I think Windsor Park is more than big enough if you could use the entire area. DND would have to sell out. But Shannon Park works too.
I agree. I don't even think governments should pay for a stadium unless it is publicly-owned and hosts a variety of events. The government should also go into this thinking of it as a money-losing subsidized piece of public infrastructure rather than some public-private profit making venture (see: history of SkyDome and probably every elaborate, publicly-funding pro-sports structure ever).

My earlier post wasn't necessarily about putting the thing in Shannon Park. I was mainly pointing out that it is strange that there is so little political will in Halifax to build just the stadium when it was the centrepiece of a hugely expensive bid that was assembled at the expense of millions of dollars. The government has it backwards.
     
     
  #366  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2009, 11:01 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
I completely agree that it should be a multi-purpose stadium. It is just a question of how many uses will be incorporated. If it is a football stadium then it should also be useful for soccer, rugby, concerts, high school band events, etc. However it could also be built so that it could hold track events, baseball (possibly a section of stands could be removed to allow for baseball), trade shows, etc. I am pointing out that multi-purpose stadium is a very general term.

I personally would build a compact stadium (no track) that would have the seats as close as possible to the field, and this would also be large enough for soccer, concerts, but not baseball (it would simply add too much to the cost and there would be little use). I would also design it so that in the future the roof can be closed during the winter (not an expensive retractable roof but a fabric partial dome to cover the hole above the field) that could be set up in a day or two. If in the future, there is the demand for a year-round facility then it would already have been designed to incorporate a dome (call it dome-ready). Having the possibility of completely enclosing it will create the possibility of hockey, basketball and indoor trade shows. And as I mentioned previously, I would make the permanent roof above the stands as a standard steel construction similar to the Metro Centre design which would be not much higher than the Metro Centre since it would not be covered for football. The football can be kicked through the opening above the field.

This may sound far fetched, but one idea for the new Winnipeg stadium is to cover the playing field during the winter for year round use (but not the stands, think of it as a large bubble within the stadium http://www.blueandgold.ca/index.php?...d=41&Itemid=30 ). I would like to enclose the stadium during the winter but with a self supporting dome (not air inflated) on the roof.

Here is an inexpensive dome (Cedra Falls, Iowa http://www.uniwrestlingcamps.com/fac...directions.cfm ). It shows what can be done if one of the stadium criteria is low cost: It was initially built for $7 million in 1976 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNI-Dome ) which was about the same time as the Halifax Metro Centre at about half the cost of the Halifax Metro Centre (which was around $15 million). Initially it had an air supported roof which has been replaced with a self supporting roof as has the Dakota Dome ( http://www.eaweb.com/index.php?cats=survey&page=gps_usd ). This is just to point out that large self supporting roofs can be installed at a reasonable price. I am thinking of a permanent steel roof like the Metro Centre with a much smaller self supporting roof over the field section only during the winter.

source ( http://www.uniwrestlingcamps.com/fac...directions.cfm )

Last edited by fenwick16; Dec 1, 2009 at 2:07 AM.
     
     
  #367  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 3:31 AM
newflyer's Avatar
newflyer newflyer is offline
Capitalist
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
I think the "multi-purpose" point is crucial. I don't mean to be negative, but I have a difficult time imagining how a stadium that only hosts 10 games a year could NOT end up being a "white elephant".

I am not sure you'll continue to believe the "white elephant" theory once a stadium and team is secured. I am even more absolute that if Moncton wins the Atlantic Canada franchise, politicians will be banging there heads against the wall watching 10,000+ people drive into Moncton from out of town 10 times a year, every year. The real kicker will occur when Atlantic Canada hosts the Grey Cup and 40,000+ people pack every hotel, restaurant, bar, taxi leading up to the biggest annual party this nation knows.

The fact is a stadium is probably good for 50 years. If the local leaders believe for a second that having a 30,000 seat stadium and a professional football team is a waste of funds then they don't even have the slightest clue.

The problem is if Halifax doesn't come around, those leaders will get to witness the benefits realized by Moncton for decades to come.

I think the Halifax city council needs to take a CFL road trip before its too late.
__________________
Check out my city at
http://www.allwinnipeg.com **More than Ever**
     
     
  #368  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 3:49 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
I am not sure you'll continue to believe the "white elephant" theory once a stadium and team is secured. I am even more absolute that if Moncton wins the Atlantic Canada franchise, politicians will be banging there heads against the wall watching 10,000+ people drive into Moncton from out of town 10 times a year, every year. The real kicker will occur when Atlantic Canada hosts the Grey Cup and 40,000+ people pack every hotel, restaurant, bar, taxi leading up to the biggest annual party this nation knows.

The fact is a stadium is probably good for 50 years. If the local leaders believe for a second that having a 30,000 seat stadium and a professional football team is a waste of funds then they don't even have the slightest clue.

The problem is if Halifax doesn't come around, those leaders will get to witness the benefits realized by Moncton for decades to come.

I think the Halifax city council needs to take a CFL road trip before its too late.
Sad but true. Nova Scotia was awarded a franchise in 1983 (Atlantic Schooners) and the politicians showed no support for a stadium. Unfortunately there weren't thousands of fans out showing support either. Hopefully this time it will be different. If not then here's to Moncton.

I don't understand how local politicians can understand the importance of a convention centre but not understand the importance of the CFL in getting people to come to the Halifax area.

However, I think that the posts above are making the point that a stadium should be built so that it will have many uses (multi-purpose) and not that a stadium isn't required.
     
     
  #369  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 3:59 AM
newflyer's Avatar
newflyer newflyer is offline
Capitalist
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Sad but true. Nova Scotia was awarded a franchise in 1983 (Atlantic Schooners) and the politicians showed no support for a stadium. Unfortunately there weren't thousands of fans out showing support either. Hopefully this time it will be different. If not then here's to Moncton.

I don't understand how local politicians can understand the importance of a convention centre but not understand the importance of the CFL in getting people to come to the Halifax area.

However, I think that the posts above are making the point that a stadium should be built so that it will have many uses.
I really think the game next summer in Moncton will open up some eyes in Atlantic Canada. It will bring the potential into the awareness of the people in Moncton and across the Atlantic region. At that point it will be game on, as to which city will move forward.
__________________
Check out my city at
http://www.allwinnipeg.com **More than Ever**
     
     
  #370  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 4:03 AM
Urban_Genius's Avatar
Urban_Genius Urban_Genius is offline
Dont let the name fool u
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton/Vancouver
Posts: 436
Just a random question. Let's suppose Moncton gets a team. How many Nova-Scotians (or Haligonians) would drive the 3 hours to games? And how many? The games would be no doubt on Saturdays, much like Saskatchewan.

I'm just curious.
     
     
  #371  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 4:21 AM
isaidso isaidso is online now
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 10,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Genius View Post
Just a random question. Let's suppose Moncton gets a team. How many Nova-Scotians (or Haligonians) would drive the 3 hours to games? And how many? The games would be no doubt on Saturdays, much like Saskatchewan.

I'm just curious.
I'm a former Haligonian now living in Toronto. I'll be flying down to all home games from here. I'll also be rooting for the Maritime team when they visit the Argonauts and Tiger Cats.
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
     
     
  #372  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 4:28 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Genius View Post
Just a random question. Let's suppose Moncton gets a team. How many Nova-Scotians (or Haligonians) would drive the 3 hours to games? And how many? The games would be no doubt on Saturdays, much like Saskatchewan.

I'm just curious.
Personally I am a fan of Halifax, Nova Scotia and the Maritime Provinces in that order since that is where I grew up. I usually watch the Grey Cup but mostly I watch the NFL. However, if Halifax were in the CFL I would quickly switch over to the CFL. I will also watch SMU Huskies on TV simply because they are a Halifax team. I would fly from Toronto to Halifax to watch Halifax in the CFL but I would probably only watch on TV if it were in Moncton.
However, I am cheering for Moncton anyway because I know how important it would be to them and New Brunswick.
     
     
  #373  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 4:37 AM
BravoZulu BravoZulu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Genius View Post
Just a random question. Let's suppose Moncton gets a team. How many Nova-Scotians (or Haligonians) would drive the 3 hours to games? And how many? The games would be no doubt on Saturdays, much like Saskatchewan.

I'm just curious.
I won't go out of spite lol, unless of course Halifax has a team as well, in that case I think it would be a great rivalry and I would definitely make the drive.
     
     
  #374  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 4:49 AM
Urban_Genius's Avatar
Urban_Genius Urban_Genius is offline
Dont let the name fool u
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Edmonton/Vancouver
Posts: 436
Thanks for the answers guys. BTW actually New-Brunswick in my birth province, although I didn't grow up there, always have a sweet spot haha.

@isaidso: Now that's dedication. I love that passion. I'm assuming you'll be in Moncton in September cheering on the argos?

@fenwick16: It's good to see your in put in this thread. Especially since you now live in Toronto. You bring up a good point in that with an team in the Atlantic that would make the CFL truly coast to coast and possibly bring in alot of new fans, such as yourself.

@BravoZulu: Haha, not even one game? JK. Would you/do you follow the CFL, just not Moncton?
     
     
  #375  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 5:58 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
Honored Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto area (ex-Nova Scotian)
Posts: 5,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
I took a look at Windsor Park again, initially thinking it was too long and narrow (assuming the superstore and car lots stay put. But on second glance, there is a good wide area at the north end of the site, and the narrower portion could handle auxiliary buildings and parking. I now agree this could also be a possibility.
I am sure that the DND lands could be made to work plus there would be extra space in the end zones. I also like the Wanderers Grounds. If the Wanderers Grounds had a stadium there would probably be over 500,000 visits per year (some would attend more than one event). I think that this is a low estimate. Right now there might be on average 200 people a day on the Wanderers Grounds which would be about 70,000 using it per year. (I lived in Halifax for several years and I never went on the Wanderers Grounds although I used the main Commons several times). I just wonder if the Wanderers Grounds are being used by most of Halifax or just a select few? If it isn't being used by most of Halifax then how is it benefiting the city?
     
     
  #376  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 1:49 PM
BravoZulu BravoZulu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Genius View Post

@BravoZulu: Haha, not even one game? JK. Would you/do you follow the CFL, just not Moncton?
Nope, I'm stubborn like that. I'm a big Canadian footbal fan both CFL and University and although I live in Halifax I'be been to Acadia, St FX and Mt A for SMU when they were on the road.

If I were to go to CFL games up there I would be assisting Mocton in maintaining a team which I do not believe they can support on their own. Will the fact that I don't go affect anything, i doubt it, more of a personal statement really. I just don't like the fact that a business case for a team in Moncton would require support from elsewhere where Halifax would not. If I have to cheer on an out of town team then I have my pick f the entire league and I'll choose a city lke montreal, not much forther away for a weekend trip and alot more to do there ( No offense Moncton)

Sorry, didn't mean to give a negative vibe, I just really would like to see pro sports in Hali, and believe if they go anywhere in the maritimes Halifax deserves the shot.
     
     
  #377  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 10:07 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Personally I am a fan of Halifax, Nova Scotia and the Maritime Provinces in that order since that is where I grew up. I usually watch the Grey Cup but mostly I watch the NFL. However, if Halifax were in the CFL I would quickly switch over to the CFL. I will also watch SMU Huskies on TV simply because they are a Halifax team. I would fly from Toronto to Halifax to watch Halifax in the CFL but I would probably only watch on TV if it were in Moncton.
However, I am cheering for Moncton anyway because I know how important it would be to them and New Brunswick.
Me too, I mostly watch NFL but do little to follow the CFL except for the Grey Cup once in awhile. And if a team came to Halifax, I would become a huge fan for sure! Fortunately i wont have to fly from Toronto.
You have a favorite NFL team Fenwick?
     
     
  #378  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 10:39 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 1,450
I'm kinda the opposite way, I'm a CFL fan but not so much an NFL fan. Yeah people usually look at me weird
If Moncton got a team, yeah I'd be there for a couple games. But if Halifax got it, I'd be there for every game.
     
     
  #379  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2009, 11:00 PM
Empire's Avatar
Empire Empire is offline
Salty Town
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halifax
Posts: 2,064
Why are we missing out on the CFL party?

By CHRIS COCHRANE - Chronicle Herald
Tue. Dec 1 - 4:46 AM

AS I WATCHED the Grey Cup game Sunday night — the entertaining football action, the party atmosphere and all the other positives associated with this annual offering of Canadiana — I couldn’t help but wonder why this end of the country must remain relegated to a back-seat view.

C’mon, we were once awarded a CFL franchise almost three decades ago! Various screw-ups, some financial and some political, blocked the Atlantic Schooners from becoming a reality. And it added to a local sense of defeatism. Since the Schooners went down, there hasn’t been a single serious attempt to revive the project.

I’m not looking at the potential for the CFL in this region through rose-coloured glasses. I appreciate the reasons why we don’t have a franchise in Halifax.

Obviously, we don’t have a suitable stadium.

We also don’t have potential private owners showing enthusiasm to head funding efforts for a new franchise or to promote CFL expansion.

We haven’t had politicians, at any level, who have publicly shown the necessary resolve to lobby hard with those holding the federal purse strings concerning sports infrastructure spending.

And there’s generally been a sense of public complacency whenever a stadium and the CFL are discussed.

Maybe our biggest problem is that construction of a stadium and entry into the CFL require a level of political leadership that we simply don’t have. The lack of political will combined with effective scare tactics by stadium opponents feed the feeling of defeatism.

OK, so bidding for the 2014 Commonwealth Games was a bad experience. Mistakes were made. Does that mean Halifax should never again try to get what every other major city in Canada already has? Surely, one defeat isn’t reason enough to quit trying.

Remember, the federal government was prepared to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on sports infrastructure for this region when there was a chance that Halifax might host the 2014 Games. There’s still money earmarked for projects such as this. So why isn’t Halifax trying harder, and making public noise about the effort, to get a portion of that funding?

Apparently, Moncton doesn’t have similar motivational problems. It’s the early favourite to land a CFL franchise at this end of the country.

Moncton’s power brokers have followed an aggressive plan. The city chased, and won, the 2010 world junior track championships, attracting enough federal money to help build a modest stadium, one that could eventually be expanded to meet CFL requirements.

Why couldn’t the same thing have happened long ago in Halifax? Why can’t it still happen in Halifax?

The best reason I can think of is, as a city, we’ve become too timid to take on this challenge.

That’s unfortunate. Because anyone watching the Grey Cup game Sunday night, whether motivated by a desire to see a title football game or to share in a great Canadian sports and social event, had to appreciate the pride that the hosts must have felt.

Maybe in this small part of the country, that pride is now overshadowed by a misguided post-Commonwealth Games fear of reaching too high.


Chris Cochrane is a sports columnist with The Chronicle Herald.

( ccochrane@herald.ca)
__________________
Salty Town

Last edited by Empire; Dec 1, 2009 at 11:13 PM.
     
     
  #380  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2009, 12:02 AM
Phalanx Phalanx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Halifax
Posts: 584
The article is right. There's no leadership at the city level. Peter Kelly is an administrator, not a leader.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Arts, Culture, Dining, Recreation & Entertainment
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:26 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.