DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Denver Dweller]

https://www.cpr.org/2019/09/17/cdot-...pgINpC097wU1jo

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by Denver Dweller

https://www.cpr.org/2019/09/17/cdot-...pgINpC097wU1jo

I worked at the Burnham shop for 5 years starting at age 19. It was sort of my first real job. The high bay (the brick part) was about 100 years old at the time. It was a strange place to work for a kid like me.

I lived in Capitol Hill. Every afternoon (I worked 2nd shift), I took the 2 (I don't think that bus route even exists anymore) up to 16th St, then walked to the light rail and took it down to the 8th and Osage stop, then walked around the fence and across all those tracks to get to the shop. I had to make sure to do it when no RTD security was there or they'd ticket me for trespassing. (Apparently homeless people were often hit by trains in that spot so they were being vigilant.) On my way home I'd always stop at Duffy's for a beer and I'd do a little homework, bellied up to the bar. My bartender was usually Greg. I always tipped him plenty and always got plenty of free beers for it.

Walking into that shop was like entering a different world through some sort of worm-hole. I was leaving my modern, turn-of-the-21st-century, Denver world (living in Cap Hill and going to school at Metro), and entering another world -- perhaps something akin to late 19th Century Pittsburgh or Cleveland. The culture there was a hard-core, blue-collar, manly-man culture. I don't know how to explain it. The workers occasionally got into fist fights and no one would get fired for it. At the beginning of each shift, all the labor had to watch a video of some lady doing stretches. They were supposed to be stretching along with it (to prevent workplace injuries) but instead they would just stand there with their arms crossed and smoke cigarettes. Man, I don't know how to explain it.

I watched the Broncos win their first Super Bowl in that shop. Someone brought in one of those portable black-and-white TV's and there were at least a dozen of us gathered around it. No work got done that night.

That land is highly polluted I can say for sure. We kept a "fence" (long consist of locomotives and/or cars) on the west side of the property so no one could see the large pools of oil, slowly soaking into the ground.

After I left that job it became a tradition to flip off the Burnham shop every time I drove by it on the 6th Ave viaduct. But now it just feels really weird to me that it's gone. It was there for so many years, it felt like it would always be there.

Anyway... carry on.

[mr1138]

It's interesting to see the realignment options being studied. I like the concepts for both the additional RTD tracks (potentially allowing for express trains?) and re-use of the historic Burnham structure as a new joint 10th and Osage/Front Range Rail station.

I have also long been a fan of the concept of getting the freeway away from the river to allow for the continued expansion of a CPV-style development pattern - greenway park alongside dense urban development. Ideally, the CML could also be moved to consolidate all of the barriers in the area into a single, more manageable corridor that could be bridged in single crossings, though this does not appear to be a part of "Alt D: Realign Adjacent to RTD."

I'm kind of surprised they're still looking at this alternative considering all the recently-built interchange infrastructure at 6th and at Alameda (looks like it is by far the least expensive to expand on the existing footprint), but I'm glad that they are. Needless to say, whatever they decide to do will have big implications for the future of this part of Denver.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by mr1138

It's interesting to see the realignment options being studied. I like the concepts for both the additional RTD tracks (potentially allowing for express trains?) and re-use of the historic Burnham structure as a new joint 10th and Osage/Front Range Rail station.

I have also long been a fan of the concept of getting the freeway away from the river to allow for the continued expansion of a CPV-style development pattern - greenway park alongside dense urban development. Ideally, the CML could also be moved to consolidate all of the barriers in the area into a single, more manageable corridor that could be bridged in single crossings, though this does not appear to be a part of "Alt D: Realign Adjacent to RTD."

I'm kind of surprised they're still looking at this alternative considering all the recently-built interchange infrastructure at 6th and at Alameda (looks like it is by far the least expensive to expand on the existing footprint), but I'm glad that they are. Needless to say, whatever they decide to do will have big implications for the future of this part of Denver.

I was hoping that yard would end up in the hands of a developer. It's a perfect TOD opportunity being right next to the 8th and Osage station. I still haven't decided if I like CDOT's plans better. Of course either would be better than what's there now.

[The Dirt]

CDOT's m.o. is figuring out how to fit more lanes into a highway, so this is pretty unfortunate.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

CDOT's m.o. is figuring out how to fit more lanes into a highway, so this is pretty unfortunate.

They do (the lane/renovation is needed, Streetsblog's whining be damned) but if if also results in the badly needed expansion of the central corridor to four tracks and new tracks for a commuter rail system, that's a solid win right there.

I'm still trying to envision how the the rerouted tracks would work going from 3rd Ave to Alameda. CDOT would have to do a lot a private property purchases to make this work.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

They do (the lane/renovation is needed, Streetsblog's whining be damned) but if if also results in the badly needed expansion of the central corridor to four tracks and new tracks for a commuter rail system, that's a solid win right there.

You can't believe how nice it is to have wide lanes where lane #1 is the HOV lane and lane #6 is strictly for entering and exiting the freeway. Adding the reflective raised pavement markers between lanes which helps to keep everyone in their lane is nice too.

Sam Hill... I loved your historical retrospective; much fun.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

I was hoping that yard would end up in the hands of a developer. It's a perfect TOD opportunity being right next to the 8th and Osage station. I still haven't decided if I like CDOT's plans better. Of course either would be better than what's there now.

The land is big enough that rerouting CML tracks through Burnham yard could also easily accompany redevelopment, I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. The Burnham hard is 61 acres....for perspective, the entire Union Station area from 15th to 20th, CML to Wewatta (between DUS and the train canopy) is about 60 acres....61 acres is a huge area that can accommodate all sorts of multimodal and TOD.

[TakeFive]

Construction Site

Photo Courtesy of JSP Corp

A Concourse

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

CDOT's m.o. is figuring out how to fit more lanes into a highway, so this is pretty unfortunate.

CDOT’s m.o. is solving a known bottleneck and sudden lane reduction caused by a river/railroad right-of-way constraint that affects 250,000 people per day using that stretch of roadway. Which, I’d point out, is more than double RTD’s total rail system ridership. The m.o. is to make 250,000 people’s day slightly better. Also, any expansions will be tolled capacity, that’s the new m.o. So why don’t we move beyond the unsophisticated far left/privileged urban elite tropes and talking points and have a rational conversation about what moves the most people most effectively. You guys have all moved into your social media echo chambers and listening to you is not so different from listening to the Trump crowd anymore. It. wasn’t so long ago this forum actually engaged in independent thought and discussion from time to time. Is this our collective reaction to a decade of rail expansion that most would agree had been an abject failure? We know it’s hopeless now so we have retreated into making everybody’s drive worse, since we acknowledge we have no way to make alternatives better?

Edit: This is why I’m a Biden guy. This unproductive revolutionary instant gratification fix it all overnight nonsense isn’t getting us anywhere. Can’t wait for “nothing to change” and then we’ll watch an entire generation of young voters be disappointed and go back to giving up on the system. And then we can all put away our magic wands and get back to actual hard work. (End of grumpy old man rant!)

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

CDOT’s m.o. is solving a known bottleneck and sudden lane reduction caused by a river/railroad right-of-way constraint that affects 250,000 people per day using that stretch of roadway. Which, I’d point out, is more than double RTD’s total rail system ridership. The m.o. is to make 250,000 people’s day slightly better. Also, any expansions will be tolled capacity, that’s the new m.o. So why don’t we move beyond the unsophisticated far left/privileged urban elite tropes and talking points and have a rational conversation about what moves the most people most effectively. You guys have all moved into your social media echo chambers and listening to you is not so different from listening to the Trump crowd anymore. It. wasn’t so long ago this forum actually engaged in independent thought and discussion from time to time. Is this our collective reaction to a decade of rail expansion that most would agree had been an abject failure? We know it’s hopeless now so we have retreated into making everybody’s drive worse, since we acknowledge we have no way to make alternatives better?

Edit: This is why I’m a Biden guy. This unproductive revolutionary instant gratification fix it all overnight nonsense isn’t getting us anywhere. Can’t wait for “nothing to change” and then we’ll watch an entire generation of young voters be disappointed and go back to giving up on the system. And then we can all put away our magic wands and get back to actual hard work. (End of grumpy old man rant!)

Most excellent rant, sir.

[SnyderBock]

I agree that solving I-25 bottleneck through central Denver is a priority. The secondary objective should be to preserve ROW for a future Front Range Passenger rail to access Union Station from the south.. Though this may be decades out, we have the opportunity to preserve this small amount of ROW to leave this option open. There is room for this passenger rail to have platforms between Union Stations LRT platforms and the CML. This would then enable a connection north of Union Station to RTD's EMU lines to NW Line, which could then be extended to Boulder, Loveland and Fort Collins. Resulting in a through line from Colorado Springs to Fort Collins hubbed at Union station, with connections to DIA and all of RTD's rail hub at Union Station.

As for the present concern and highest priority objective of fixing the I-25 bottleneck...

I prefer the option of relocating the CML next to RTD (preserving a little ROW for RTD to add up to 2 LRT tracks), in order to open up ROW for I-25. But I would take it a step further and trench all of I-25 using this new ROW, then covering it with a second deck. The cut and covered portion of I-25 could be bi-dirrectional, with limited exit and entry points designed to be a regional traffic downtown bipass for through traffic and express toll Lanes and/or high tech IoT's managed lanes. The upper deck would also be bi-dirrectional, but with exits and entry points to all major roads to act as a local service section of the highway, which would also incorporate bus only lanes with full blown BRT service and stations, with pedestrian bridges to both sides of the highway at each station.

[The Dirt]

Lol, I knew you couldn't resist defending highway expansion! I mean, my comment had nothing to do with the bottleneck or politics. CDOT just had the tendency to have tunnel vision and dismiss all alternatives other than adding lanes. Their latest innovation is to lanes, so I guess that's a step in the right direction. At the risk of triggering you, I should mention that the I70 expansion is why we now have the reactionary CdeBaca in office, so those policies real consequences.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Lol, I knew you couldn't resist defending highway expansion! I mean, my comment had nothing to do with the bottleneck or politics. CDOT just had the tendency to have tunnel vision and dismiss all alternatives other than adding lanes. Their latest innovation is to lanes, so I guess that's a step in the right direction. At the risk of triggering you, I should mention that the I70 expansion is why we now have the reactionary CdeBaca in office, so those policies real consequences.

Well, Amazon is why America has AOC. But that doesn’t mean I don’t still like free 2-day delivery.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Well, Amazon is why America has AOC. But that doesn’t mean I don’t still like free 2-day delivery.

Thanks to you and your friends retail stores are closing left and sideways.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ma...say-2019-09-13

For the first six months of the year, there were 7,282 store closures announced, according to BDO. In 2018, there were just below 6,000, and BDO quotes the Coresight Research forecast for 12,000 store closures through the end of the year.

But at least you and your friends are creating lots of jobs. Think of all the drivers out making deliveries. Then somebody has to keep the roads in spit shine condition.


We now have Megahubs

Denver International AP come's in 5th right behind Charlotte.
Charlotte???
No clue but according to the rules Charlotte out-pointed Denver 232-194.

[TakeFive]

15th Street to get rubber bumpers

Ashley Dean/Denverite has the story about adding a protected scooter/bike lane along 15th street plus a designated bus lane.

[Cirrus]

^
You buried the lede.

Originally Posted by Denverite

15th Street will get rubber bike lane curbs and a bus lane instead of a car lane

17th, 18th and 19th streets are also getting bus lanes. 15th Street will get rubber bike lane curbs and a bus lane instead of a car lane

story link

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

I was hoping that yard would end up in the hands of a developer. It's a perfect TOD opportunity being right next to the 8th and Osage station. I still haven't decided if I like CDOT's plans better. Of course either would be better than what's there now.

After a recent visit to TAXI I've been thinking about RTD's massive bus maintenance footprint in that area and how it seems ripe for redevelopment with all of the stuff going on across the river in RiNo.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

^
You buried the lede.

Is "adding a bus lane" anything like plus a designated bus lane?
As for the rest of it the (brief) article felt rather vague as to precisely what and when.

A little more clarification today: https://www.coloradopolitics.com/qui...1a7ebb88d.html

The city plans on changing a car lane on 15th Street into a bus-only lane between Court Place and Larimer Street, The Denver Post reports. The same change will be applied to 17th Street later this year between Market Street and Broadway.

[TakeFive]

It's not for me to understand how or why

We had some understandably perplexed discussion earlier this year around RTD released ridership numbers.

In retrospect it would seem that RTD created a "new and improved" system for counting ridership on various modes. Why else would bus ridership jump higher right after a fare increase?

Over the summer RTD released their ridership numbers for light rail at each station: 1) Jan 19th thru April 19th; 2) April 26th (or 19th - conflicting dates reported) thru May 18th; and 3) May 19th thru Aug 19th.

These are all weekday numbers and from Jan thru April, ridership numbers looked much the same as last year. However, the April 26th to May 19th numbers are decidedly lower. This is apparently when the new counting system was implemented for light rail. Presumably they used these numbers when they announced a 10% drop in light rail ridership. Whether they recalculated all of the previous months in 2019 I dunno but either which way... The numbers for May thru Aug reflect the new lower numbers; however this 'summer' block of months is always down from the others due to off-season ridership to Auraria.