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  #1041  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 2:12 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Excellent detective skills, ns_kid! You and K-Man have opened up a whole new section of local history that I had not been aware of, and I am grateful. There's a lot of info there to absorb and I look forward to reading through all of it again, and will post if I can add to it (likely not as you two have been most thorough).

Last night I found myself driving by this section of Barrington, and as I was passing Mulgrave Park I could almost picture that old station in that location. I have driven by there countless times in the past, not really thinking about what may have been there before, but now I will never look at it in the same way again. Very cool stuff.
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  #1042  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 11:07 PM
K-Man K-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Those pics are from the Halifax Municipal Archives, and were posted on p44 of this thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...143037&page=44
Ahhh, there they are! I couldn't find those posts anywhere. I had originally read them over the summer but forgot where they were. Thanks for that OldDartmouthMark, I've updated the source on the image. And look who the original poster was, haha!

**To anyone reading this and interested in the North Street Station there are some great posts/photos/information back on page 44 as OldDartmouthMark had stated.

I had a bit of a laugh though when I went back to look tonight as with all the discussion & research on Willow Park right smack-dab in the middle of a newspaper article on page 45 (post #894) were the same images ns_kid had posted of the damaged roundhouse with this short paragraph about the repair work after the Explosion:


Source: The original post and full newspaper article (which is pretty interesting) can be found here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=894

So some of this had already been right under our nose at one point fellas, haha!
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  #1043  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2019, 11:26 PM
K-Man K-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by ns_kid View Post
Eureka! In [obsessively] searching for solutions to a couple of unanswered questions.....
Haha, that caught me funny! It's funny how you don't want to stop researching until you get to the bottom of something, eh? Especially with the internet when you know the answer is out there on some page, somewhere.

I have to second OldDartmouthMark though by saying I'm impressed with your work man. That was some impressive digging to find that information so thanks for that. It's pretty cool that you were able to find a build date AND a "takeover" date for everything. Besides this all being really interesting hopefully it will prove useful to someone as well. I was hoping to maybe find a picture to add of the run away rail cars but there is surprisingly very little information besides the article that you had posted. Anyway, nice work ns_kid...there's a lot more history to that site than originally thought, eh?
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  #1044  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 1:11 AM
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Originally Posted by K-Man View Post
Haha, that caught me funny! It's funny how you don't want to stop researching until you get to the bottom of something, eh? Especially with the internet when you know the answer is out there on some page, somewhere.

I have to second OldDartmouthMark though by saying I'm impressed with your work man. That was some impressive digging to find that information so thanks for that. It's pretty cool that you were able to find a build date AND a "takeover" date for everything. Besides this all being really interesting hopefully it will prove useful to someone as well. I was hoping to maybe find a picture to add of the run away rail cars but there is surprisingly very little information besides the article that you had posted. Anyway, nice work ns_kid...there's a lot more history to that site than originally thought, eh?
Thanks, K-Man. Yes, my wife would agree I can find it hard to let it go when I I'm determined to figure something out! Hopefully all that detail will be of use to someone in the future.

Thanks for reposting that article about the post-explosion recovery of the rail facilities (and marine facilities) following the devastation of the explosion. It's easy to forget how monumental that effort was. It is funny to realize those roundhouse images were right there. It's not the first time I've gone searching for information only to find it was previously covered in this forum.

That was one big roundhouse with at least 24 stalls. But not the biggest by a long shot. CN's Spadina roundhouse in Toronto had 37 stalls, while Turcot roundhouse in Montreal was the largest in the country. With 56 stalls it was virtually a complete circle, with only a couple of access tracks to reach the 100-foot turntable inside. It was closed in 1961 and replaced by -- what else -- a highway interchange.
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  #1045  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 9:02 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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It's true. I'm sure I've posted lots of stuff in the past that contains info that would help in more current discussions, but was completely unaware as I was only focusing on the part of it that suited the discussion at the time.

This is why these types of exchanges are great. Different people adding pieces to the puzzle and different perspectives.

Additionally, I do wonder if conversations like this might create records that could be used by others in the future. Not sure - but I am aware of at least one case where a messageboard existed that contained posts of historical information (about automobile racing) by people who were personally involved and knew intimate details that would otherwise never be heard. I had always kept it in my back pocket as a resource whenever I had questions about a particular subject.

Well, about a year ago the board crashed, and I found out later that the owner of the board had not kept a backup - so all that info was lost. Sadly, some of those posters had passed away, so the info is gone forever.

Regardless, I don't hold out any delusions of creating historical documents... so I enjoy the conversations, and personally benefit from them greatly, for no other reason than it expands my historical knowledge of my hometown.

So thanks... and please continue. It is most enjoyable.
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  #1046  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Well, about a year ago the board crashed, and I found out later that the owner of the board had not kept a backup - so all that info was lost. Sadly, some of those posters had passed away, so the info is gone forever.
Have you tried https://web.archive.org/ ?
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  #1047  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 2:49 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Yes I did, thanks.

IIRC, there were some remnants of threads there, but it didn’t go very deep into the messageboard. Oh well, that’s the way it goes sometimes...
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  #1048  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 10:57 AM
K-Man K-Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ns_kid
......with 56 stalls it was virtually a complete circle, with only a couple of access tracks to reach the 100-foot turntable inside......
I bet on a busy day that would have been a pretty cool sight to see, eh? It amazed me in the image you posted back on page 51 (post #1010) how little room there was inside the roundhouse 'stall' for the trains to pull into. Have to tuck the mirrors in for that one!

Last edited by K-Man; Oct 29, 2019 at 11:19 AM.
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  #1049  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 11:14 AM
K-Man K-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
This is why these types of exchanges are great. Different people adding pieces to the puzzle and different perspectives.
Nicely said. I can't count the number of times I've come across an obscure piece of information or photograph that I would never have found searching around myself. I especially enjoy the stories that get posted by people who have a firsthand account of something. That's the kind of stuff you won't find in a textbook and as you stated would likewise never get heard.
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  #1050  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 2:36 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by K-Man View Post
I bet on a busy day that would have been a pretty cool sight to see, eh? It amazed me in the image you posted back on page 51 (post #1010) how little room there was inside the roundhouse 'stall' for the trains to pull into. Have to tuck the mirrors in for that one!
I'm thinking some of the diesel electrics were a little wider than the steam engines they were originally designed for? I don't have data, but it's just my impression. At least as the walls fanned out towards the back, there would be more room to actually work around them.

I have never actually been in a roundhouse - were they only used for basic maintenance or was there another purpose for them? I've seen some striking photos of huge steam locomotives being hoisted (see pic below) by some type of crane, but I assume that would have been in the larger repair shops, as the roundhouses would not be large (or tall) enough to house such devices.



http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrain...oundhouses.htm

The Kentville roundhouse case is definitely a loss. It seems as if there were little to no efforts by town council to look at alternatives to tearing it down. Very short-sighted in my view - and obviously no respect for history. The worst of it is, that council members are voted in by the public based on what little knowledge we may have of them, with no requirements for the job other than what amounts to a popularity contest... but they can have long-lasting negative effects on their region. Then they are voted out in a few years and go on with their lives, even if they had wrecked havoc on their town/city while they were in power.

Regardless (rant over), here are a couple of websites with interesting info/photos of the Kentville Roundhouse. Luckily, there were some individuals who took it upon themselves to document it before it was demolished.

http://www.novascotiarailwayheritage...tion_group.htm



http://www.dardpi.ca/wiki/index.php?...lle_Roundhouse



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  #1051  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
I'm thinking some of the diesel electrics were a little wider than the steam engines they were originally designed for? I don't have data, but it's just my impression. At least as the walls fanned out towards the back, there would be more room to actually work around them.

I have never actually been in a roundhouse - were they only used for basic maintenance or was there another purpose for them? I've seen some striking photos of huge steam locomotives being hoisted (see pic below) by some type of crane, but I assume that would have been in the larger repair shops, as the roundhouses would not be large (or tall) enough to house such devices.
Thanks, Mark. Some more great photos there. While I was in the old Halifax roundhouse in the 70s, I don't remember a lot of activity going on at the time. The one roundhouse I've been in where steam locomotives were being serviced was in Scranton PA, site of the Steamtown National Historic Site, a place that is worth a visit if you are in that vicinity. They maintain several big steam locomotives there.

My understanding is that roundhouses were mostly used for routine servicing to keep locomotives on the road. Running steam engines was labour-intensive and they needed a lot of maintenance before and after every trip: lubrication, brakes shoes, loose bolts, steam and water leaks and so on. Heavy repairs (and that meant almost complete disassembly and rebuild) came at regular intervals. I think that interval varied based on type of service, but was somewhere in the range of every 100,000 miles. Those heavy repairs would have been done in major engine shops, which in this region for CN meant sending the locos to Moncton. (CN's biggest shops were in Stratford ON, which is where that photo you posted of the locomotive on the crane was taken.) Dominion Atlantic locos would, I believe, go to the CPR shops in Montreal.

While roundhouses remained in service in many places after diesel locomotives replaced steam, I think they were victims of the increased reliability of diesels. Diesel locomotives travel much further between servicing and require less lubrication, fuel and water. More of their basic repairs can be done outside and they need to be stored less. (One source says diesels have an availability rate of 90%, compared to 65% for steam.)

Some good information here about roundhouses.



Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
The Kentville roundhouse case is definitely a loss. It seems as if there were little to no efforts by town council to look at alternatives to tearing it down. Very short-sighted in my view - and obviously no respect for history. The worst of it is, that council members are voted in by the public based on what little knowledge we may have of them, with no requirements for the job other than what amounts to a popularity contest... but they can have long-lasting negative effects on their region. Then they are voted out in a few years and go on with their lives, even if they had wrecked havoc on their town/city while they were in power.

Regardless (rant over), here are a couple of websites with interesting info/photos of the Kentville Roundhouse. Luckily, there were some individuals who took it upon themselves to document it before it was demolished.
Gary Ness has done so much to preserve the history of the DAR, most recently in an excellent book. Most people in the Annapolis Valley have no understanding of how much of the Valley's development depended on the DAR. Both the growth of the agricultural sector and the tourism sector in the early to mid-20th century were tied to the railway, which is why the loss of the Kentville roundhouse and station is such as loss, IMO.
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  #1052  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 8:41 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Thanks for the great post and info. I do have Gary Ness's book at home, on my reading list (which I am lagging behind on...). Will have to get to it soon.
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  #1053  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 8:50 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by K-Man View Post
Haha, I'm glad you identified that tower. It was the first thing my eyes went to wondering what it was.

So guys, I've really enjoyed the last few posts. Based on the map posted by ns_kid it looks like our mystery building is the Freight Car Repair Shop, eh? Pretty cool to have officially identified what it's purpose was. That's actually the first time I've seen that map so thanks for posting that! Going to be a good resource for future "spelunking". I'd like to be able to chime in with some info here but you guys are far more knowledgeable on this subject than I am. I did however find some interesting photos:

OLD NORTH END
I found this little snippit from the "Old North End" blog which accompanied the photo below. I'm thinking ns_kid this is probably one of the photos you had seen that were poor quality:


Source: Old North End blog - https://oldnorthend.files.wordpress....m200700525.jpg

"The above photo from the Tom Connors collection held at the Nova Scotia Archives shows the Richmond train/freight station ca. 1860. The shabby conditions of the Richmond station led to the train station being moved in 1878 to the foot of North Street. However, the train terminus was one of the main reasons for the settlement on this part of peninsula.

PIER21

Pier 21 has an interesting write up on their web site which mentions the Richmond Station. In regards to providing proper accommodations for immigrants after the Deep Water Terminal burnt:

"The work to establish proper reception facilities was undone by fire in February of 1895. Much of the infrastructure at the Deep Water Terminus burned, including the immigration quarters.[6] In the absence of proper landing facilities, passengers were landed at Cunard’s wharf (just south of Pier 2) and examined at the North End railway station.[7] The Intercolonial Railway moved quickly to rebuild, and had plans in place by the end of the next month.[8] However, the search for replacement accommodation became even more pressing in the spring, as a blaze took the Intercolonial Railway’s Richmond terminal (in the North End of Halifax, near the foot of Richmond Street) in May of 1895. Although a bit further from the railway station, the pier and shed at Richmond had been used at times to assist in clearing immigrants after the February fire."

Source: Peir21.ca - https://pier21.ca/research/immigrati...before-pier-21

Maritime Museum had a few images on their site speaking of train dispatcher Vincent Coleman/Richmond & the Halifax Explosion. I'm wondering if the buildings in the middle of the photo are the same ones as the first image posted above?


Source: Maritime Museum - https://maritimemuseum.novascotia.ca...ifax-explosion


Source: Maritime Museum - https://maritimemuseum.novascotia.ca...ifax-explosion

NS ARCHIVES
The images below were taken from a newspaper article which is the same one OldDartmouthMark came across the "blown to atoms" quote. I'm not sure if the map will come in handy or not but I thought I'd post anyway as it shows the Willow Park Roundhouse & Shops. The legend shows them in the damaged area which supports everyone's theory that they were damaged in the Explosion.


Source: NS Archives - https://novascotia.ca/archives/MacMe...Page=201761293


Source: NS Archives - https://novascotia.ca/archives/MacMe...Page=201761292

Lastly, I came across this little gem on the Fairview Historical Society site. The quality of the image wasn't that great on their site but it's a fantastic shot of the roundhouse, eh? The caption reads:

"Fairview Cove Roundhouse - 1960
The Canadian National Railway's Locomotive Deposit in Fairview Cove area of Bedford Basin. The Roundhouse and Switching Yard services both freight and passenger trains".


Source: Fairview Historical Society - http://fairviewhistoricalsociety.ca/...-and-fairview/
Found an additional post-explosion photo on the Halifax Municipal Archives. The view is along Barrington (Campbell) Street looking north. The foundry at the left side of the photo would have been just south of the rail yard, so the right side background would have included the rail buildings that were blown to 'atoms'...


Post Explosion photographs
CR 58-2.9: Lockman/Barrington Street looking north [post-explosion - 1918-01-10]. Hillis and Sons' Foundry upper left.
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  #1054  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 9:59 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by K-Man View Post
MYSTERY BRICKS - POSSIBLE REMNANTS OF THE ORIGINAL NORTH STREET STATION RETAINING WALL?

So I've overthought this. But, with all the railway discussion lately I thought I'd throw these up just for a fun post. Over the summer I was down at "ground zero" where the North Street Station once stood. The whole area is now just a parking lot with a cement retaining wall along Barrington St. but halfway down there is a natural outcrop of ironstone rock that pops out. And within that section of rock are the remnants of what appear to be an old brick wall. The small patch of cement and rock are very reminiscent of the "old Halifax" style of building using random course ironstone. In the 'zoomed in' image below of the station you can see how the original retaining wall looks like it was built on top of the natural rock much like the small patch of brick work in question.


I wasn't sure how large the footprint of the North St. Station used to be so I placed google maps over plate 't' of "ol trusty" (Hopkins Atlas) lining up North & Barrington streets on both maps. Admittedly I was a little disappointed to see that the section of brick work was a lot farther away from the station than I had thought. In the first image below you can see the footprint of where the station once stood (red), where Upper Water St. used to end (orange), the location of the brick work (arrow), the Wellington Barracks magazine where Atlantic Fleetclub is today (red), and just for alignment/reference the Admiralty House & it's circular driveway (purple). I have to say that for a hand drawn map at a time when aerial photography was not available it's remarkable how accurately the streets/buildings on Hopkins map line up with the current day streets/buildings on google maps.


Source: Google Maps - https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Bar...!4d-63.5883149


Source: Google Earth - https://earth.google.com/web/@44.662...8.98718623t,0r


Source: https://www.loc.gov/resource/g3424h....,1.473,0.568,0

**The image above is a section of Albert Ruger's "Panaromic View of the City Map - 1879". I've discovered that this is an excellent "side kick" to use with Hopkins Atlas when you want a 3D image of the buildings from that time. Even though this map is also hand drawn it's amazing how accurately the buildings align with Hopkins map.

Anyway, this is most likely some recent patch work BUT I will say that the original railing along Barrington St. did manage to stay in place for years (even through bridge construction) so who knows, maybe it really is an original section of wall. I know the images below have been posted before in a thread that I can no longer find about the North St. Station but I thought they were just too cool to not re-post as they show the last remnants of the station.....or do they?

Date: 1975

Source: Noticed in Nova Scotia - https://halifaxbloggers.ca/noticedin...h-end-halifax/


Source: HRM Archives - http://gencat1.eloquent-systems.com/...OI1_1225%3D827
One more photo to add, of North Street Station and the same railing, from almost the same vantage point as the last photo, post-explosion:



Post Explosion photographs
CR 58-2.8: Beside North Street Station. Afternoon of explosion.
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  #1055  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 12:02 AM
K-Man K-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Now THAT is a cool photo! You don't see those old trains hoisted into the air like that everyday, eh? Imagine the weight of that thing....that would make for a cool photo from underneath. I wonder though how many workers it took to pull it up like that?...just kidding.

It was interesting to see all the CNR roundhouses in that link you posted. There's a pretty great photo of the completely circular Montreal roundhouse that ns_kid had mentioned then right below it that same building on a busy day that I had commented about, haha.

I also came across an image today from from the 1960's of the train tracks right at the base of the MacDonald bridge. I'm not sure if it's been posted or not before but I thought I'd throw it up just in case. I wonder if that building described in the image is part of the original North Street Station? Both Hopkin's and Ruger's maps show a smaller building beside the main one. Would anyone know if they tore all the buildings down in 1920 or just the station itself? I threw the last image up for fun as it's a neat comparison of two different era's of trains side by side with an interesting caption. The older trains are so much more bad-ass looking, eh?

MONTREAL ROUNDHOUSE

Source for both images: Old Time Trains - http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrain...oundhouses.htm

NORTH STREET STATION

Source: OLD Black and White Pictures of Halifax, Nova Scotia - Facebook Page
User: Gary Merrick


Source: Library of Congress - https://www.loc.gov/item/73693337/

END OF AN ERA

Source: Chronicle Herald Facebook Page
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  #1056  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 12:08 AM
K-Man K-Man is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
One more photo to add, of North Street Station and the same railing, from almost the same vantage point as the last photo, post-explosion:.....
Nice find man....I haven't seen that one before. That's going into the collection. I think I'm going to have to start refining my searches here....you guys are finding all the good ones!
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  #1057  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 7:24 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by K-Man View Post
Now THAT is a cool photo! You don't see those old trains hoisted into the air like that everyday, eh? Imagine the weight of that thing....that would make for a cool photo from underneath. I wonder though how many workers it took to pull it up like that?...just kidding.

It was interesting to see all the CNR roundhouses in that link you posted. There's a pretty great photo of the completely circular Montreal roundhouse that ns_kid had mentioned then right below it that same building on a busy day that I had commented about, haha.

I also came across an image today from from the 1960's of the train tracks right at the base of the MacDonald bridge. I'm not sure if it's been posted or not before but I thought I'd throw it up just in case. I wonder if that building described in the image is part of the original North Street Station? Both Hopkin's and Ruger's maps show a smaller building beside the main one. Would anyone know if they tore all the buildings down in 1920 or just the station itself? I threw the last image up for fun as it's a neat comparison of two different era's of trains side by side with an interesting caption. The older trains are so much more bad-ass looking, eh?

MONTREAL ROUNDHOUSE

Source for both images: Old Time Trains - http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrain...oundhouses.htm

NORTH STREET STATION

Source: OLD Black and White Pictures of Halifax, Nova Scotia - Facebook Page
User: Gary Merrick


Source: Library of Congress - https://www.loc.gov/item/73693337/

END OF AN ERA

Source: Chronicle Herald Facebook Page
Great photos and comments. Those old steam engines seemed to be more like huge snarling beasts that had taken on a life of their own. Much less sophisticated than the newer diesel electrics but way more character!

I am thinking that building did exist as part of the North Street Station complex, although I don't know its function. As you look at photos, it appeared that there were a few levels of track that were stepped down, and that this one was on a lower level than the big passenger station. Perhaps this one had more of a function for freight or logistics? I have no idea.

You can see evidence of a large retaining wall, and the tracks beside that smaller building on a lower level at the right side of the photo below:


https://novascotia.ca/archives/Notma...ves.asp?ID=969

Shown on our old favourite atlas, without the benefit of grade or elevation information, from this post:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=890



In this post: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=917 there's an NS archives photo from 1955 (just before the opening of the Macdonald Bridge), showing that building just down on the left side of the bridge. It looks to be the right age in the photo.



https://novascotia.ca/archives/NSIS/archives.asp?ID=666

FWIW, that photo you posted with the abandoned cars is from Halifax Municipal Archives:

City of Halifax fonds
Halifax (N.S.). Committee on Works records
Halifax (N.S.) Works Department photographs
Upper Water St.
Retrieval code: 102-39-1-1390
[196-?]




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  #1058  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 3:46 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Those last two pics of abandoned cars made me think a little more about how preposterous the idea of having a bunch of abandoned stripped-out cars laying around in downtown Halifax seems, yet the photos prove that 50-ish+ years ago it wasn't all that uncommon. Here are a few on the Halifax Municipal Archives:





Search info: 2054-2100 Upper Water St. [corner of Proctor]
Retrieval code: 102-39-1-331
1966-03-16
Dates: Mar. 16/18, 1966









Search info: 2475-2477 Barrington St.
Retrieval code: 102-39-1-528
1968-05-01
Date: June 27, 1968





Search info: Africville St., C. N. R. Roadway
Retrieval code: 102-39-1-786
[196-?]

Definitely different times!
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  #1059  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 7:38 PM
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I wonder why/how those wrecks were placed alongside the railway tracks? The ones in the slum areas are a bit more understandable I suppose because they could have just been abandoned where they stopped by their former owners. The ones by the railway tracks were placed there deliberately though. I wonder why?

The other thing of interest is that those vehicles (except the old Cadillac) were barely 10 years old when those photos were taken. There is a '61 Pontiac among the rail line cars. Short lifespan compared to today.
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  #1060  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2019, 7:52 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I wonder why/how those wrecks were placed alongside the railway tracks? The ones in the slum areas are a bit more understandable I suppose because they could have just been abandoned where they stopped by their former owners. The ones by the railway tracks were placed there deliberately though. I wonder why?
Probably a number of reasons. Could be stolen cars, or just left there in order to be able to scavenge parts needed. I imagine the train tracks were chosen because they wouldn't be detected as quickly/easily.

The ones in the other areas would not necessarily be left where they stopped. More likely left there as parts supply for a running vehicle. While they sat, others would stop by and grab parts as needed. Then, eventually, the city would pay to have them hauled away...

Quote:
The other thing of interest is that those vehicles (except the old Cadillac) were barely 10 years old when those photos were taken. There is a '61 Pontiac among the rail line cars. Short lifespan compared to today.
That's 100% true. Cars were not build with corrosion in mind in those days. Also, things like suspension and drivetrain tended to wear out faster than todays cars.
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