Westgate Centre redevelopment [1309 Carling Ave] | 3x86m, 2x120m | 3x24f, 2x36f | U/C

[Kitchissippi]

Even if they got rid of the indoor mall, it would be nice if they grouped the buildings around some sort of central pedestrian focal point. I think what this area needs is an attractive destination that has additional activities beyond just shopping.

When I was in Shanghai a few years ago I stayed near this brand new shopping area. It was mostly outdoor, but the different levels and catwalks made it really interesting and encouraged hanging out or exploring. The central court looked like a stage for community events that people could witness from various vantage points. They also had such a fascinating mix of building styles, I wish they'd do something similar.

[1overcosc]

Whoa, hold the phone. The article mentioned a plan for highrises next to Silver City at Blair Station... do we have a thread on here for that / has anyone heard details?

As for this site, my main concern would be wanting more of the activity centred closer to Carling as opposed to in back by the highway, and also getting rid of the transit terminal in the middle of the property and having buses stop on the street instead (much more efficient).

[rocketphish]

RioCan is planning for about 1060 residential units on this site.


bEarly renderings:








Site:



From: http://rileybrockington.ca/wp-conten...n-Proposal.pdf

[lrt's friend]

towers surrounded by surface parking, puke

[rocketphish]

Personally, I was hoping for something more friendly and human-scaled at street level. Something like Newport Village in Port Moody, BC. This is a multi-use development combining high-density residential towers with street level retail. I've shopped on Newport Dr., and it's very warm and friendly, perfect for Westgate, or any of the mall redevelopments that RioCan is contemplating.

Aerial view showing the mix of street-level shops, and set back residential towers, as well as the relative lack of surface parking:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.28918.../data=!3m1!1e3


Streetview of the Newport Dr., with lowrise residential above:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.28275...7i13312!8i6656



From: http://www.bosadevpm.ca/section.asp?pageid=24741

[Skipper]

That's exactly the type of development we should have along Scott street, close to the future lrt stations. Imagine the additional traffic on Carling road. This area is currently poorly serviced by OC Transport. The 85 has to be one of the worst routes. Buses always late, if they bother to show up. Also, who will want to live in a high rise apartment building overlooking the 417????

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by Skipper

That's exactly the type of development we should have sling Scott street, close to the future lrt stations. Imagine the additional traffic on Richmond road. This area is currently poorly serviced by OC Transport. The 85 had to be one of their worse routes. Buses always late, if they bother to show up. Also, who will want to live in a high rise apartment building overlooking the 427????

It would work pretty well when the city gets around to implementing BRT or any RT on Carling

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Skipper

That's exactly the type of development we should have sling Scott street, close to the future lrt stations. Imagine the additional traffic on Richmond road. This area is currently poorly serviced by OC Transport. The 85 had to be one of their worse routes. Buses always late, if they bother to show up. Also, who will want to live in a high rise apartment building overlooking the 427????

The 85 is actually reasonable outside of the PM peak.

The area is also served by the 101 and the 176 with the 86 being fairly close as well.

All in all it's reasonably well served by transit.

As for the actual layout, it's okay. It could be way worse but it could also be better. The fact that about half the Carling frontage is retail flush with the sidewalk is very nice.

I'd like for the parking lot in the centre of the towers to be moved underground and replaced with a nice plaza of some sort. That would up the budget of the project and probably render it uneconomical, but I wouldn't be opposed to the city putting up some cash to make it happen (could this be accomplished through RioCan selling that central section to the City for a price that could cover the cost of more underground parking, and then the City builds the plaza?). The surface parking on the sides and along Merivale can stay, that block of Merivale is kinda lost due to the highway anyway.

All in all, I'd say Riocan deserves a congrats for redeveloping these aging malls into mixed use sites, rather than just rebuilding them as power centres like what Shoppers City East or Herongate did.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Skipper

That's exactly the type of development we should have sling Scott street, close to the future lrt stations. Imagine the additional traffic on Richmond road. This area is currently poorly serviced by OC Transport. The 85 had to be one of their worse routes. Buses always late, if they bother to show up. Also, who will want to live in a high rise apartment building overlooking the 427????

You'd be surprised. Ottawa already has a lot of apartment towers very near the Queensway, and they get rented. Highway traffic is apparently a pretty soothing sound once you get used to it.

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Personally, I was hoping for something more friendly and human-scaled at street level. ...

Something like The Shops at Don Mills:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.73516...4,18.06z?hl=en
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.73465...2!8i6656?hl=en

[Kitchissippi]

I'd even settle for the Tanger Outlet with underground parking and high-rises on top

[jitterbug]

Density goals aside, the City should absolutely not allow this development to be built as shown.

Bury the parking, and leave the surface land for pedestrians (a square, a park, perhaps a water feature). The only surface parking should be for delivery vehicles, buses, and handicap spots. Overhead, a mix of mid-rise and high-rise buildings would work much better than all high-rise which inevitably creates wind issues and makes the whole outdoor space inhospitable. All buildings should have either above- or below-ground links as well.

As one other poster here said, the current design is puke. Designed to maximize profit for the developer with no regard to the people who would live, work, or shop there.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Skipper

Also, who will want to live in a high rise apartment building overlooking the 417????

That's not your problem or mine to worry about, but there are no shortage of apartment buildings in Ottawa with charming views of the Queensway.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by jitterbug

Density goals aside, the City should absolutely not allow this development to be built as shown.

Bury the parking, and leave the surface land for pedestrians (a square, a park, perhaps a water feature). The only surface parking should be for delivery vehicles, buses, and handicap spots. Overhead, a mix of mid-rise and high-rise buildings would work much better than all high-rise which inevitably creates wind issues and makes the whole outdoor space inhospitable. All buildings should have either above- or below-ground links as well.

As one other poster here said, the current design is puke. Designed to maximize profit for the developer with no regard to the people who would live, work, or shop there.

Some surface parking is fine... but that amount, and its configuration... no way.

[OTSkyline]

^I too hate the big surface parking lots on the renders; however, I remember seeing somewhere that this was the earlier proposal. I saw somewhere else a newer proposal that has basically the same layout but the big centre parking lot underground and filled with a park instead (like we have all suggested)

Newer proposal
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWYKh1_VEAA-ES3.jpg

Better?

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

^I too hate the big surface parking lots on the renders; however, I remember seeing somewhere that this was the earlier proposal. I saw somewhere else a newer proposal that has basically the same layout but the big centre parking lot underground and filled with a park instead (like we have all suggested)

Newer proposal
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWYKh1_VEAA-ES3.jpg

Better?

That's not bad. I'd have no objections to that.

Can anybody really argue this is worse than the run-down dilapidated husk of a mall that stands there today?

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

^I too hate the big surface parking lots on the renders; however, I remember seeing somewhere that this was the earlier proposal. I saw somewhere else a newer proposal that has basically the same layout but the big centre parking lot underground and filled with a park instead (like we have all suggested)

Newer proposal
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWYKh1_VEAA-ES3.jpg

Better?

Yeah, I guess its ok, it seems like the distance between the ground floor shopping experiences are pretty far... but then again, I dont know the actual scale of the proposed buildings in comparison to the expansive lot there now.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Skipper

Also, who will want to live in a high rise apartment building overlooking the 417????

A friend of mine was looking for a place for his 85 year old mother, and she preferred a dynamic view of traffic rather than a static forest. Kind of like having an aquarium, she said.

I remember looking at a condo at Place des Governeurs for another friend, and the higher units with the full view of the 417/174 split are pretty awesome, especially at night with the stream of lights. What's important is the soundproofing.

[DEWLine]

Originally Posted by silvergate

If you've ever been, you'll know exactly why this isn't sad

I've been more than once over the decades, starting with visits to the Collector's Stop in the basement and the only Toys'R'Us store in the city if memory serves. It was one of the first comics shops I knew to visit when I moved to Ottawa. So, some memories are tied up in the place as it is now.

[jitterbug]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

I've been more than once over the decades, starting with visits to the Collector's Stop in the basement and the only Toys'R'Us store in the city if memory serves. It was one of the first comics shops I knew to visit when I moved to Ottawa. So, some memories are tied up in the place as it is now.

Since we're reminiscing...Westgate was a popular spot for movies: I saw E.T., Scarface, and many other movies there in the 80s as a teenager. But that was then and this is now...so it will be good to see something new there, as long as it's not a big-box mall with condo towers sitting atop an asphalt desert.