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  #56841  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2021, 12:35 AM
Martin Pal Martin Pal is offline
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Originally Posted by jerry1656 View Post
Lastly, 6637 is slated to be demolished soon, it looks like its going to be a hotel. See LA Curbed , item 18.
https://la.curbed.com/maps/hollywood...s-construction
_________________________________________________________________
Thanks, Jerry, welcome!

Looking at all those projects to be built at that link, they might as well change the name of the area to Hotelwood.
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  #56842  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2021, 5:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
.
Let's take the Wayback Machine to the 1880s so we can visit the mystery location shown below.


"Cabinet Photograph of Paraffine Paint Co / P& B Roofing Warehouse Los Angeles"



eBay


As you can see the company's offices were located downtown at 5th and Spring St. but the location of the warehouse is a mystery. Luckily we have the street number of the warehouse, 711 - 715
but the name of the street remains a mystery.

-note the palm tree and the rather tall mailbox (or is it a sign?) on the far right side - - >


.
e_r, with the listing that Noir_Noir found, stating that its location was on Lyon, "cor. Aliso," well, it was within sight of the Maier/Aliso Brewery:


detail 1909 birdseye map

Lyon is the diagonal street near the top, Aliso is the street running horizontally above the word "Maier." In the 1880s, the Paraffine men would have been able to see the gigantic Aliso tree in the yard of the brewery (it was gone by the time of the birdseye map). All in all, quite a good location.

Last edited by odinthor; Apr 18, 2021 at 5:05 AM. Reason: Add the word "detail."
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  #56843  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2021, 5:47 PM
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Very interesting odinthor. Thanks for 'placing' the warehouse in situ.



detail

Someday in the future we might be able to zoom in on the men's corneas and see branches of the Aliso Tree. (how cool would that be!)





Here is an amazing photograph, which I believe is new to NLA, showing the Aliso Tree next to the old Philadelphia Brewery....

"This early Los Angeles brewery, known from 1874 to 1882 as the Philadelphia Brewery, was sited on a Tongva Indiana Village. (Yang-Na)


militant_angeleno


Old Sycamore - Philadelphia Brewery - later, Maier & Zobelein Brewery.

. .and look, someone rode their bicycle to work.



.

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Apr 18, 2021 at 6:28 PM.
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  #56844  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2021, 8:07 PM
Martin Pal Martin Pal is offline
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Originally Posted by Handsome Stranger View Post
It looks like one of Martin Turnbull's followers on Twitter solved the mystery yesterday.

https://twitter.com/SF_Historian/sta...39074228297732
_________________________________________________________________

I wrote to MT last night and asked him what prompted him to post that photo with the rooftop mystery on his twitter recently, as I believe he knows we've been looking for an answer to that for many years. He said that one of his followers had recently sent it to him wondering what it was, so he thought he'd post it on Twitter and, as we know, he got a reply!

MT wrote and thanked that person, SF Historian, and wondered how he came upon the answer and here is some of his reply:

SF Historian: [...] I am a professional historian by trade, but my focus for two decades was San Francisco. However, some of your tweets showed up in my feed one day, and I realized that Los Angeles was just as rich, historically, and so wanted to learn more. I LOVE when people have research questions, and this was a very fun ... well, how do I put this? It's like being on an Easter egg hunt, but as an adult. What's funny is that the LA Noirish website was actually the key. They posted this photo (see attached), and once I had the owner name, I could search the newspaper archives. That led me to the sale when he purchased the property, which led me to the original owner, which led me to the answer! [...]

PS: I am sure the strange angle of the projection box was what the advertising agency figured would be the least likely to result in glare, and thus make the movie images more visible.

The one post he was specifically referring to on NLA is this one, posted by Noir_Noir in August, 2018:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir_Noir View Post
Here's the 1938 Charles S. Lee replacement building on the NE corner of Hollywood and Cherokee.


ucla.library

[...]
_________________________________________________________________
So that info in the corner of the photo was the key, I guess! And likely another post by Lorendoc with much info, that Noir_Noir quoted in his post:
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...94#post8287994
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  #56845  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2021, 8:10 PM
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Before the brewery.


I know we have visited El Aliso Tree numerous times in the past but here's an image that we might not have seen that predates the Philadelphia Brewery by four years.


musician's loft

The date is at the bottom, 1870. (I missed it at first because it's partially cropped off)

There appears to be one story buildings in the distance (there's a flue with a short column of smoke at far left)

I'm afraid the disorienting debris in the foreground is beyond figuring out. (at first I thought the rounded item was the remnant of an old water wheel)






The photograph is labeled 'Vignes Winery' on the musician's site

Like this.


. . .so the Philadelphia Brewery bought the land that was once the Vignes Winery.

Is that correct?

________________________________________________________________________



UPDATE: I just found the answer.

"In 1837 Frenchman Jean-Louis Vignes opened a winery under the sycamore, building some one-story frame buildings to house his business
(and giving his name to Vignes Street). The El Aliso Winery, named for the tree, became the center of LA's Frenchtown, and shipped 150,000 bottles of wine per year.

Despite their success, the Vignes family sold out to German immigrants in 1874 who opened the Philadelphia Brewing Company on the site."


Noirishers, we have no doubt covered this earlier in the thread. Sorry for the repetition.
.

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Apr 18, 2021 at 8:43 PM.
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  #56846  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2021, 9:25 PM
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e_r, the rough outlines of the property's ownership, at least in the Yankee era, according to my notes, seem to be:

Jean Louis Vignes, who came to LA in 1829? 1831? (veracious sources differ), from Bordeaux France, had his big vineyard in that section and indeed his residence was in the proximity of the old Aliso, William Heath Davis (a sea captain of the time) says that he was often known as "Don Luis del Aliso."

In 1855, his nephew Jean-Louis Sainsevain (often seen with an "e" ending his surname) bought the property, but it seems that Vignes, nevertheless stayed on residing there, perhaps ill (he died in L.A. in 1862 "after a long illness").

Sainsevain is not in the L.A. census of 1870, and presumably by that time had moved to Cucamonga, where he also had a vineyard; and perhaps had sold the vineyard/Aliso property by that time; but perhaps the property was owned by him but idle until:

In 1873, “Wattelet & Vogel are the proprietors of the new Philadelphia Brewery” (LA Herald, 11/12/1873). And so in mid-November, 1873, the Philadelphia Brewery was new.

And here is my contribution to images of the old Aliso. I picked up this image, on which are markings indicating preparation for publication seemingly in a newspaper, on eBay. The seller didn't realize its significance.




odinthor collection
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  #56847  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2021, 10:38 PM
mrfredmertz mrfredmertz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Charles View Post
Wow, really good eye, Tourmaline!

For the record, I think that's a really beautiful storefront on Lane's. I positively love it! The building is still there, but really has no indication of its former glory.

I find the building quite similar to the former Darkroom, also on Wilshire.




Thank you for that link, GaylordWilshire! I have always LOVED the look of the buildings above, but until reading your post I never knew that the black material was known as Vitrolite. Thanks! Yours is the only post in this entire thread to mention the stuff.

I grew up not far from the Dutton's Books in Burbank (Google street view), and I always loved the look of the stuff. A notable example of Vitrolite is 1932's Daily Express Building, in London.
One of the most spine-tingling events of my life was visiting The Daily Mail Building in London (matched, perhaps by the original BBC Broadcasting House.) Art deco in all it's glory and amazing that it survived The Blitz of 1940-41. If you ever go to London, you have to see both buildings.

Last edited by mrfredmertz; Apr 18, 2021 at 11:01 PM.
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  #56848  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 1:16 AM
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Congratulations everyone on working together & solving the roof-top mystery thingy! It had been an enigma for such a long time I began to doubt we'd ever know the answer.

Oh, and thanks to that feller up in San Francisco.

.
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  #56849  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 4:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Pal View Post

SF Historian: [...] I am a professional historian by trade, but my focus for two decades was San Francisco. However, some of your tweets showed up in my feed one day, and I realized that Los Angeles was just as rich, historically, and so wanted to learn more. I LOVE when people have research questions, and this was a very fun ... well, how do I put this? It's like being on an Easter egg hunt, but as an adult. What's funny is that the LA Noirish website was actually the key. They posted this photo (see attached), and once I had the owner name, I could search the newspaper archives. That led me to the sale when he purchased the property, which led me to the original owner, which led me to the answer!
There's no two ways about it, historians are the cat's pajamas.
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  #56850  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 4:50 PM
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mystery negative



"LOS ANGELES 40's 50's FOUND NEGATIVE 3" x 4" Vintage bw Photo DOWNTOWN"


eBay

It appears to show a line of people people waiting for a streetcar. Oddly, they appear to be standing in a hole because of the mound of earth in the foreground.

Where is this?



I don't have the app to convert a negative to positive. sorry
.
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  #56851  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 5:25 PM
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deleted

Last edited by Snix; Apr 19, 2021 at 6:01 PM. Reason: new post with accurate link
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  #56852  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 6:00 PM
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There's a guy in St. Louis who travels around the country removing and saving Vitrolite from demolition and reinstalling it on preservation projects. Amazing stuff.
https://www.vitrolitespecialist.com/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Charles View Post
Wow, really good eye, Tourmaline!

For the record, I think that's a really beautiful storefront on Lane's. I positively love it! The building is still there, but really has no indication of its former glory.

I find the building quite similar to the former Darkroom, also on Wilshire.




Thank you for that link, GaylordWilshire! I have always LOVED the look of the buildings above, but until reading your post I never knew that the black material was known as Vitrolite. Thanks! Yours is the only post in this entire thread to mention the stuff.

I grew up not far from the Dutton's Books in Burbank (Google street view), and I always loved the look of the stuff. A notable example of Vitrolite is 1932's Daily Express Building, in London.
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  #56853  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 6:21 PM
Noir_Noir Noir_Noir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
.

mystery negative

"LOS ANGELES 40's 50's FOUND NEGATIVE 3" x 4" Vintage bw Photo DOWNTOWN"

It appears to show a line of people people waiting for a streetcar. Oddly, they appear to be standing in a hole because of the mound of earth in the foreground.

Where is this?


I don't have the app to convert a negative to positive. sorry
.


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  #56854  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 7:05 PM
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LA Times, 7/30/1948


From Cost of Living, by George Meany and R.J. Thomas, p. 96, 1944.

Last edited by odinthor; Apr 19, 2021 at 7:15 PM. Reason: Add interesting pricing comparison.
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  #56855  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 7:27 PM
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Thanks Noir Noir and odinthor. I appreciate your help


I'm intrigued by the overgrown bushes. I'm guessing the photographer is standing in an empty lot. perhaps

.
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  #56856  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 7:41 PM
Martin Pal Martin Pal is offline
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Originally Posted by Handsome Stranger View Post
There's no two ways about it, historians are the cat's pajamas.
_________________________________________________________________
Martin Turnbull is going to ask him if he can find a color photograph of the 25 x 40 ft. Edward Trumbull mural that was in the lobby of the NBC Building on Sunset and Vine.
Something I keep looking into from time to time. The title of it has been referred to in various places as "The Power of Radio" or "The Genie of Radio."

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  #56857  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Noir_Noir View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

I'm intrigued by the overgrown bushes. I'm guessing the photographer is standing in an empty lot. perhaps
This is the building which once housed the Blue Diamond Grill. The diamond motif was also used by Ogee's restaurant, seen here in 1956.


Huntington Digital Library

The other side can be spotted in a 1950 LAPL image - it's the one with the Seagram's 7 advert on the side.

I believe the photographer in the original picture was standing in the grounds of the California State Building.
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  #56858  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 8:15 PM
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detail from below


LAPL No. 00018368
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  #56859  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2021, 11:00 PM
Martin Pal Martin Pal is offline
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Art in L.A.’s Union Station Has Been Hidden for Decades. Now It Prepares for an Oscar Debut
https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ng-renovations

The now-gleaming train station will get its close-up this Sunday when the 93rd Academy Awards ceremony is broadcast live from throughout its historic halls.
On April 29, the restored spaces will open to the public, its big reveal.



Can't wait to go see it!
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  #56860  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2021, 12:16 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
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Before the brewery.
Thx for the prompt. I tried to replace the two images from that post, but I couldn't make it work, so the captions are still orphans.
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