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  #761  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2009, 8:03 AM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
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^ Thanks a lot for describing the various links. Looks exciting - kinda hems in the airfield, but I figure they've thought through that carefully.

Looks like there will soon be a need to assign a numerical designation to the Elgin-O'Hare Expressway.

"I-390" maybe?
Or the bypass itself could theoretically become I-390, instead, and the Elgin-O'Hare could be something else.
Or maybe they will be state routes and not interstates - who decides that anyway? Is it just a question of getting federal funding for maintenance or something?
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  #762  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2009, 8:25 PM
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I guess this means the recently renovated Des Plaines oasis will be disappearing.


I really hope this gets built as a toll road, because the cost of this thing has to be immense.
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  #763  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2009, 9:45 AM
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Yep, the oasis is toast.

I don't know how the road will be signed. It will be built to Interstate standards, and it will more than likely receive Federal funding, so it is eligible for an Interstate designation. It doesn't have to receive a designation, however, and AASHTO can deny an interstate designation if there is a good reason for it.

Most likely, the Elgin-O'Hare and the bypass will each receive numbers of some kind so that they show up on maps clearly. Whether those numbers will be interstate numbers or simply IL state routes is questionable. For purposes of representation on a map, it may be clearer for the new roads to get IL state route numbers, so that the actual interstates are more of a regional framework for development than a dense metropolitan network.

Tolls are a definite possibility, possibly in conjunction with some sort of public-private partnership.
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Last edited by ardecila; Dec 20, 2009 at 6:12 AM.
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  #764  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2009, 1:57 PM
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Quote:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1...121809.article


Big court victory for O'Hare expansion
DuPage County judge says Chicago can go ahead with cemetery condemnation


December 19, 2009

By MARY WISNIEWSKI Transportation Reporter / mwisniewski@suntimes.com
In a major victory for the city of Chicago’s O’Hare Airport expansion plans, a DuPage County judge ruled Friday that the city can proceed with condemnation proceedings to acquire St. Johannes Cemetery, which stands in the way of the completion of a new runway.

St. John’s United Church of Christ in Bensenville — which owns the 1,100-grave burial ground — had fought the acquisition, arguing it would cause great grief for families of those buried there. Joseph Karaganis, an attorney for the church, said he plans to challenge the court ruling.

The cemetery issue is the last major obstacle to the city’s expansion of O’Hare.

Last month, the village of Bensenville settled with the city, getting $16 million and agreeing to allow the demolition of over 500 abandoned homes and businesses.

The city has a relocation plan for the cemetery.

“We realize this is a very sensitive matter,” said Rosemarie Andolino, Chicago’s city aviation commissioner. “And we are committed to working closely with the families, as well as the officials from St. John’s United Church of Christ.”
..
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  #765  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2009, 6:26 PM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
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So Karaganis is still mulling about? Now we have another couple years to squabble on appeals with him and the cemetery?
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  #766  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
Presumably you're referring to a system primarily for people changing planes between W and E. Your suggestion of people entering the airport on one side and eventually boarding on the other is limited to people with no luggage to check (or claim, for arriving passengers), and no other need to line up at their airline's counter.
...
This isn't necessarily true. Some airlines might pay for a second counter or, in a more dramatic change, the airport could start providing checkins for coach as a service for all airlines. I think Oslo does something like that.
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  #767  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 8:17 AM
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^ Definitely, if an airline pays for an extra set of counters in a terminal where it doesn't have its gates, it would work. (And passengers would have to plan extra lead time to ensure bags made it onto their flight.) But paying the staffing costs of those counters is maybe a longshot. I guess if the passenger inconvenience without it were so drastic (30 minute drive from downtown to T-123 versus 50 minute drive to T-7, or vice-versa for Schaumburg, etc.), the airlines would do it and then could make back the costs with a passenger facility charge.

The Oslo thing sounds great. If the U.S. could pull that off, I'd like to see one in the Block 37 superstation.
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  #768  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 9:11 AM
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I'm actually kinda puzzled. It's possible that the new people mover actually exists outside the security barrier. This would allow passengers to deplane, grab their luggage (if any) and then have access to parking and ground transportation systems serving the east (Chicago/points north) and the west (NW/W burbs). But if that's the case, then why not simply extend the existing line from its end at T1? There's plenty of room for a tunnel portal in Lot B, which is just a surface lot.

If, on the other hand, the people mover exists within the security barrier, then that restricts the usefulness of the train, unless it is paired with a reasonably fast system for moving luggage from the east terminals to the west. You can't use the train for cross-airport transfers, even if airlines wanted to split their gates on opposite sides (they would probably fight tooth/nail to prevent this). You can't use the train to access ground transportation on the opposite side, since the baggage carousels are (probably) outside the security barrier, and they will only send the baggage to a carousel in the same terminal as the arrival gate.

The West Terminal plans call for a landside terminal with a small number of gates, and then a satellite concourse with many more, a la T1. I thought Chicago might be going for a mini-Atlanta set up with an underground train connecting island concourses. I'm pretty sure this is what's going on - some higher-up, maybe even Daley himself, likes Atlanta's underground train and wants one for O'Hare, whether it makes sense conceptually or not.
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  #769  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 9:25 PM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
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I'm pretty sure this is what's going on - some higher-up, maybe even Daley himself, likes Atlanta's underground train and wants one for O'Hare, whether it makes sense conceptually or not.
Whoa, is this some not-so-secret secret/rumor?
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  #770  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2009, 11:30 PM
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No, not a rumor at all, just a possible and likely scenario. Daley's always been pissed that Atlanta stole the top spot from Chicago, so now we have a multi-billion dollar program that - surprise - reconfigures the airfield to look like Atlanta's. There are very good practical reasons for the parallel-runway system in high-traffic airports, and Chicago is the busiest airport that DOESN'T have a parallel configuration. To be honest, it's probably not even Daley - but somebody in the planning process wanted both the efficiency of Atlanta's runway layout and the simple logic of their terminal layout, even though it doesn't really work with our current terminal layout. (The inspiration could also have come from Denver, which has a similar layout to Atlanta)

I checked the O'Hare planning documents - the underground APM will indeed be a secure system, which makes absolutely NO sense unless they can also transport baggage from east to west in a timely fashion. Fortunately, they're closing 32L-14R, so there won't be any runways separating the east terminals from the west. Theoretically, you could just run baggage carts across, but it's a long way.
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Last edited by ardecila; Dec 21, 2009 at 12:08 AM.
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  #771  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2010, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...nifcantly.html

Diminishing delays predicted for O'Hare, Midway
January 26, 2010 12:29 PM | No Comments

- The optimistic outlook was based on technology under development that is intended to transform the nation's air-traffic control system with the goals of increasing flight capacity and enhancing safety........

-The benefits of NextGen include increasing safety and flight capacity and reducing fuel consumption and emissions, according to the FAA........

- Parts of NextGen are scheduled for deployment beginning this year in Chicago, aimed at reducing airfield congestion at O'Hare International and Midway Airports, Romanowski said........

- The FAA expects savings totaling $22 billion nationwide by 2018, which is the mid-point of the NextGen rollout.

The NextGen program is scheduled for full deployment by 2025, the FAA said.........


-- Jon Hilkevitch
..
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  #772  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2010, 9:28 AM
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,7097406.story
Chicago wins cemetery land for new O'Hare runway
Relocation of about 1,200 graves could begin within weeks

By Art Barnum, Tribune Reporter

February 8, 2010

The City of Chicago on Monday was awarded possession of a 161-year-old cemetery that lies in the path of a future runway at O'Hare International Airport, and the relocation of about 1,200 graves could begin within weeks.

DuPage County Judge Hollis Webster ordered that the title of the 5.3-acre St. Johannes Cemetery in Addison Township be transferred from St. John's United Church of Christ to the city. She also ordered that Chicago pay the church $630,000 for the land, which stands between two segments of a new runway already under construction.

The acquisition was considered one of the last major impediments to the $15 billion O'Hare Modernization Project.

Webster ruled in December that Chicago had a legal right to use eminent domain proceedings to acquire the site from the church, which has argued against the city's plan. On Monday she approved Chicago's motion to acquire the site under quick-claim proceedings after the city said a delay in the runway project could unnecessarily increase the project's price tag.

City officials said Monday that the current schedule calls for the graves to be moved by spring 2011, allowing for the new runway to be finished and opened by June 2013...........
..
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  #773  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2010, 2:07 PM
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^ Finally, this issues can be put to rest.......er.. so to speak.
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  #774  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2010, 2:17 PM
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So much for resting in piece...
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  #775  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2010, 3:29 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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Chicago's motion to acquire the site under quick-claim proceedings after the city
Its Quit-Claim, not Quick-Claim...
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  #776  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 6:43 AM
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Quote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...0,780656.story

United, American threaten to call off O'Hare expansion talks

By Julie Johnsson
8:43 p.m. CST, February 9, 2010

An elusive deal on funding the final new runways at O'Hare International Airport finally appeared to be close at hand after years of negotiations, until city officials undermined the agreement, airline officials said Tuesday.

Representatives of United and American airlines said city aviation officials caught the carriers off-guard with demands that they consider unreasonable: They planned to hike O'Hare rents and landing fees by millions of dollars, despite the recession and a struggling airline industry. In addition, the city plans to use the money to repay bonds, which carry a 4 percent variable interest rate and aren't due for another 20 years.‬‪

The carriers balked, and in a scorching Feb. 3 letter to City Aviation Commissioner Rosemarie Andolino, they said that all talks are off until the city rethinks its financing strategy.

"We think that it's fiscally irresponsible to prepay debt that already has a coupon of 4 percent, especially when that debt is not due until 2030," said Michael Trevino, a spokesman for United Airlines. "Obviously, the airline industry continues to have its financial challenges."

It's a rare public dispute between the parties and comes at a time when the city scored a crucial legal victory that would have paved the way for the second phase of the $15 billion O'Hare expansion. A DuPage County judge Monday awarded the city possession of St. Johannes Cemetery, which lies in the path of a proposed runway.

The city and airlines were close to an agreement in late December to move ahead with the last runways on the south end of O'Hare, which the city contends would deliver the greatest results of any of the runways planned. They would substantially boost capacity for additional flights, while slashing the airport's legendary delays.

The two sides also agreed, sources said, to table the most contentious issue: the city's insistence on building a $3 billion western terminal that the airlines say they can't afford and don't need.

But the city backtracked last week and insisted that the terminal be part of any discussion. City officials also said they planned to retroactively raise the airlines' 2010 airport usage fees, as of Jan. 1. Rents would rise 15 percent to 17 percent, while landing fees would jump 38 percent.

About three-fourths of the landing-fee hike, or $63 million, would go to prepay bonds issued in 2005.

"We are uncertain what has triggered this change in direction, but find it quite troubling and inconsistent with our past dealings," wrote United and American officials. "If [city aviation] is going to intentionally and unnecessarily increase the airlines' costs, we cannot consider any projects that will only exacerbate the situation."

Andolino wasn't available for comment. In a statement, first deputy commissioner Michael Boland said the city wouldn't negotiate through the press but that it "remains willing to reach an agreement with its airline partners."

The airlines are furious because they thought they had a solid agreement with the Daley administration to keep down the costs of operating at O'Hare until the $15 billion airfield expansion project is completed. Andolino has said the project still can be done by 2014, which was the deadline Mayor Richard Daley set when Chicago was vying to host the 2016 Olympics.

But without airline support, or private investors, O'Hare expansion critics say the project will run out of money and stop midstream.

From the airlines' perspective, the centerpiece of financing the project was a concept called "pavement before payment."

Conceived in 2003, the idea went as follows: Since the financially struggling carriers could not provide significant upfront money for runway construction, the city borrowed heavily to raise funds. Then, the airlines were supposed to pay back their share years later, through increased landing fees and other charges, when a wealth of flights were operating on the new runways and the industry was again profitable.

But the airlines should have known that the city expected them to shoulder more of the costs, Boland said.

"It is unfortunate that the 2010 O'Hare debt service increases have occurred during difficult economic times; however, they were anticipated as part of the (O'Hare modernization) funding agreement reached with the airlines in 2003."

Chicago's intention to pay off long-term debt now, as referred to in the letter, suggests that the city may seek to dramatically increase future borrowing to finance the rest of the expansion project, experts said.

"Money is cheap right now and the city thinks it can do better" than the current interest rate it is paying on bonds, said an aviation consultant who has done work at O'Hare.

jjohnsson@tribune.com jhilkevitch@tribune.com
Copyright © 2010, Chicago Tribune
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  #777  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 9:11 PM
nergie nergie is offline
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Why can't anything come easy with this project? I just got back from Asia and while I am not an advocate for Authoritarian regimes, I do have to applaud the infrastructure in China and Hong Kong. Damnit Daley, let's get this thing done so ORD can be more than a crowded Greyhound station.
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  #778  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 10:49 PM
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As much as people complain about corruption and circumvention of the democratic process in this country (and in particular, this city), people sure seem to prefer pure authoritarian iron-fisted power when it comes to executing the projects and programs they like.

What do you want Daley to do? Call the heads of the airlines into a room and say either their brains or their signature will be on that piece of paper? Would you want to live in a country that works like that anyway?

Construction initiated by local government can only be paid for via bond issues, and bond issues require a revenue source to back the debt service payments. If it went to a vote, do you think people would choose a tax increase to pay for new runways? Daley's got no leverage here, so he'll have to concede something to the airlines.
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  #779  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 11:04 PM
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UAL and AA are blustering to get a better deal out of the city. Ultimately they'll reach an agreement. It's in the airlines' best interest to get this project done. Perhaps we'll see assurances from the City that the western terminal will be scaled down or not built at all in exchange for higher landing fees.
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  #780  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2010, 11:15 PM
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Isn't the promise of a Western Terminal part of the deal for the Dupage suburbs agreement to drop the opposition to O'Hare expansion?
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